Norco 4224 DOA issues?

[soundscribe]

I'm continuing to spec my storage/virtualization host build and would like to start buying components.

Most likely, I'd like to go with the Norco 4224 case, but I've read in reviews some people had problems with some of the various boards being DOA. There were multiple people making the same complaint.

I suppose the "best" way to proceed is to buy everything at once and test it on arrival, rather than buy a component, such as the chassis and not touch it for a month or two.

I was curious if anyone else had quality problems with the innards of the 422x cases and if that is a valid concern.

 

[Patrick]

My Norco cases have been fine. I would certainly suggest testing everything when it arrives.

 

[odditory]

Most likely, I'd like to go with the Norco 4224 case, but I've read in reviews some people had problems with some of the various boards being DOA. There were multiple people making the same complaint.

Old thread but to anyone lurking reading this, keep in mind that because a few people posted about receiving a bad or DOA backplane board doesn't mean its a widespread issue; it tends to be the small subgroup of people that do find themselves with a problem that are the most vocal as far as posting about it.

And to Norco's credit its been my experience that they will send out free replacement backplanes -- even years after the sale -- no questions asked. I was an idiot once and plugged an Antec modular PSU cable into a Corsair modular PSU (look the same but have different pinouts) and fried a Norco backplane. Emailed Mike @ Norcotek dot com and next day I had a replacement.

 

[RimBlock]

And to Norco's credit its been my experience that they will send out free replacement backplanes -- even years after the sale -- no questions asked. I was an idiot once and plugged an Antec modular PSU cable into a Corsair modular PSU (look the same but have different pinouts) and fried a Norco backplane. Emailed Mike @ Norcotek dot com and next day I had a replacement.

Unfortunately that was not my experience. Norco SEA (South East Asia) want to charge me more than a new 4120 costs to replace the 5 backplanes in my 4120 which are currently falling to bits (connectors are now coming off the backplanes) after 2 years. To be far the unit is in a tropical climate and is not in an air conditioned environment but on the other hand, I have had normal PC chassis and motherboards etc that are not falling to bits after 5+ years. I fully accept I could have got a lemon and the other units are fine but I cannot believe I am expected to buy a new unit every 2 years.

I did have a few emails back and forth with Mike at Norco but he then just handed me off to the SEA distributor as soon as he saw the receipt even after being told the distributor (also the only local Singapore retailer) was not interested in providing a solution (not even a paid for one).

I think if you have issues in the US with Norco chassis you will probably be fine. If you have issues elsewhere then you are at the mercy of the local distributors and Norco US have no interest.

For this reason I will not be giving any more money to Norco but will be paying the extra and going with Supermicro chassis as I know that they will not start falling to bits after a couple of years and the local distributor will get anything broken fixed quickly and at a reasonable price.

RB

 

[hagak]

While the cost of the Supremirco chassis seems much higher than the Norco, keep in mind the SM comes with more parts. Such as dual-redundant PSU and sliding quick mount rails. The PSU alone can make up most of the cost difference. Plus the SM are just better built boxes.

My only complaint with the 846 chassis I got was one of the 8pin power cables is just way to short and I had to get a $5 extension cable. The issue I have with it is the stock cable is so short I can not see how it can be used on ANY motherboard, not that it was just too short for my specific board.

 

[RimBlock]

While the cost of the Supremirco chassis seems much higher than the Norco, keep in mind the SM comes with more parts. Such as dual-redundant PSU and sliding quick mount rails. The PSU alone can make up most of the cost difference. Plus the SM are just better built boxes.

My only complaint with the 846 chassis I got was one of the 8pin power cables is just way to short and I had to get a $5 extension cable. The issue I have with it is the stock cable is so short I can not see how it can be used on ANY motherboard, not that it was just too short for my specific board.

I have built a number of client machines based on Supermicro chassis and appreciate the quality over the Norco units. I was hoping to offer a lower cost solution based on Norco chassis but cannot now due to the support issues, quality where I am located and the fact that the local distributor is also the only local retailer and they wish to keep it that way.

I recently put a Intel S1200BTL in a 846A-R1200B and had no issues with the power cables. I have just finished a build with a X9SCi-LN4-F in a 813MTQ-350CB and again had no issues with the 8 pin (both boards have the 8 pin power connector in roughly the same place). Which board did you put in the chassis ?.

I have just moved my own server from my crippled Norco 4120 to a Supermicro 743TQ-865B-SQ (SQ for Super Quiet ) and it is very nice. It's a little more than the Norco 4120 and only has 8x 3.5" hotswap with 3x5.25" bays available for either a 5in3 3.5" or 8in2 2.5" modules. Only 3 fans out of 5 are installed and there is no rail kit as standard but it is still worth the extra IMO. I hope to get a 846TQ-R900B sometime in the future to use as a SAN but not just yet.

One point in favour of Norco is that their drive trays can be used for 3.5" or 2.5" drives and for Supermicro you need to get a 2.5" tray adaptor which is pretty pricey for what it is.

RB

 

[Patrick]

I have built a number of client machines based on Supermicro chassis and appreciate the quality over the Norco units. I was hoping to offer a lower cost solution based on Norco chassis but cannot now due to the support issues, quality where I am located and the fact that the local distributor is also the only local retailer and they wish to keep it that way.

I recently put a Intel S1200BTL in a 846A-R1200B and had no issues with the power cables. I have just finished a build with a X9SCi-LN4-F in a 813MTQ-350CB and again had no issues with the 8 pin (both boards have the 8 pin power connector in roughly the same place). Which board did you put in the chassis ?.

I have just moved my own server from my crippled Norco 4120 to a Supermicro 743TQ-865B-SQ (SQ for Super Quiet ) and it is very nice. It's a little more than the Norco 4120 and only has 8x 3.5" hotswap with 3x5.25" bays available for either a 5in3 3.5" or 8in2 2.5" modules. Only 3 fans out of 5 are installed and there is no rail kit as standard but it is still worth the extra IMO. I hope to get a 846TQ-R900B sometime in the future to use as a SAN but not just yet.

One point in favour of Norco is that their drive trays can be used for 3.5" or 2.5" drives and for Supermicro you need to get a 2.5" tray adaptor which is pretty pricey for what it is.

RB

How do you like the 743 SQ? I want one but have been dragging my feet buying one.

 

[hagak]

I have the 846A-R1200B with a SuperMicro X9DR7 motherboard. While this board does seem to be positioned towards the left of the case (if you are looking from the front) with the edge of the board flush with the port panel. Even if the board was more to the right the short 8pin power would still not reach. The length of my 8 pin cable only allows for enough length for the power port to be in one location and that would be the very top corner of a motherboard that is positioned to the far right.

Maybe my chassis just has a really short 8 pin cable, the other 8 pin cable had more than enough length in it to reach.

Edit I looked at the X9SCi-LN4-F board and it only has 1 8pin connector, which mean you did not need to use the 2nd one which is very very short. If you need both is when you run into issues.

 

[hagak]

One point in favour of Norco is that their drive trays can be used for 3.5" or 2.5" drives and for Supermicro you need to get a 2.5" tray adaptor which is pretty pricey for what it is.
RB

Note you do not have to use the SM adapter, pretty much any 3.5 to 2.5 tray adapter works, our office actually uses the icydock ones they are pretty cheap and work well.

 

[RimBlock]

How do you like the 743 SQ? I want one but have been dragging my feet buying one.

The quality is not quite up there with the 846 but it is still pretty good. You get a fairly good basic setup but need to pay extra if you want the racking rails and handles and two extra fans. I am adding a 8 bay in 2 5.25" slots to it so I have 8x3.5" and 8x2.5" available but the 8in2 mobile rack is not cheap. The chassis has latch on the side door making it easy to open whether stood up or racked. The fans are all hot swap so can be easily removed without messing around with their cables as they stay in the fan brackets connected to the fan wall. The fans are quiet, very quiet. Saying that the unit is in my room with my noisy cabinet top fans but do seem quieter than my modified Norco chassis with 120mm quiet Xigmatek fans.

The best thing is the hotswap bays which are easy to slide drives in and out of, feel very secure and you can feel the drives connecting with the backplane and sliding in to the connectors smoothly. This chassis uses bigger drive mounting brackets than the others I have worked with and this may be to aid cooling as the bulk seems to be made up of aluminium.

The power supply is 80 Bronze certified (in my 743TQ-865B-SQ at least) and has, from memory so please confirm if important to you, only 2 SATA power connectors and around 6 Molex. The hot swap bay uses 2x Molex and the mobile bays (3.5" or 2.5") also use Molex for power. Something to take note of if you were thinking of using 2/4/6 in 1/2/3 5.25" bays type units though. Molex to SATA cables may be needed if you have drives directly connected to the PSU.

Overall I am pretty happy. It fits my HP P812 full length card with no issues and it has the same quality of Supermicros much higher priced units.

The only issue I have is that two of my Seagate drives have the activity light constantly on. I have seen this in other chassis and am changing my generic SAS cables to Supermicro cables with sideband. I suspect it is something more to do with the drives firmware though as both drives were bought together and the other three of the same model but bought at a later time don't do this. Although not having tried on this chassis, moving other drives exhibiting the same symptoms in other chassis did not stop the activity light remaining solid on. The drives seem to be working fine though. I will have another dig for info on this but do not believe it is anything to do with the chassis.

I have the 846A-R1200B with a SuperMicro X9DR7 motherboard. While this board does seem to be positioned towards the left of the case (if you are looking from the front) with the edge of the board flush with the port panel. Even if the board was more to the right the short 8pin power would still not reach. The length of my 8 pin cable only allows for enough length for the power port to be in one location and that would be the very top corner of a motherboard that is positioned to the far right.

That is quite strange. Do you have a picture ?. The image for the X9DR7-LN4F review Patrick did here shows the 8 pin connectors on the right side of the board next to the ATX power connector and in a position that would be right next to the power supply cables. The other two X9-DR7 models listed on Supermicros site also seem to have the 8 pin power connectors in the same place.

Maybe my chassis just has a really short 8 pin cable, the other 8 pin cable had more than enough length in it to reach.

Edit I looked at the X9SCi-LN4-F board and it only has 1 8pin connector, which mean you did not need to use the 2nd one which is very very short. If you need both is when you run into issues.

Yep the X9-SCi-LN4-F is a single processor board so only 1x 8pin power connector required.

Note you do not have to use the SM adapter, pretty much any 3.5 to 2.5 tray adapter works, our office actually uses the icydock ones they are pretty cheap and work well.

Doh, that makes perfect sense. So obvious and still needs pointing out . Thanks

RB

 

[hagak]

I do not have a picture handy however it appears the exact same as the review. The issue is the length of the 8pin power cord is just stupid short. I will see if I can get a picture, I ended up just adding a 6" extension to it. Like I said though the other 8 pin power cord was plenty long, just the second one was short. Very odd that SM would make those cables of such different lengths since at least the SM boards the connectors are in pretty close proximity to each other.

 

[RimBlock]

That would be good to see. It is little gotchas like this that can really irritate when doing a build.

Regards
RB

 

[hagak]

That would be good to see. It is little gotchas like this that can really irritate when doing a build.

Regards
RB

Yes it is, this little gotcha keep me from powering up my build for 4 days while waiting for a $5 part!!!

 

[Patrick]

Hi hagak - mind if I ask a quick question? How are you cooling that setup? Are you using active or passive coolers? Thinking about setting up something similar for the lab.

 

[hagak]

I am using the recommended SM passive heatsinks. Ran a number of benchmarks on the system after I built it and never say CPU temp rise much at all even under heavy load. I am using the supplied ductwork that came with the chassis. The stock fans on the 846 chassis seem to work pretty well. One thing I did notice is since the CPUs are more to one side compared to the rear fans, the air temps from the one fan is noticeably higher than the other.

I have the 846 chassis mounted in a very lightly loaded 25U APC rack with all doors. Lightly loaded as in one other "desktop" style computer, 1U SM half depth i3 server, 2 UPSs, a SG300-28P switch (this thing actually puts down more heat than expected).

 

[RimBlock]

I had my Norco up for sale a while ago before the backplanes all failed and someone got in touch last night enquiring if it was still available. I mentioned the backplanes had all gone now so not really much good. To this he replied..... "Can you remove the backplanes and just direct attach so no more hotswap but still very usable"...

Duh, why didn't I think of that ...

I have now removed the backplanes and am wiring up the drives directly. Not so keen to sell .

RB

 

[odditory]

Or just get a set of replacement backplanes from Norco, they're usually pretty good about sending them out free. PM for email if interested.

 

[RimBlock]

As per this thread, have emailed Mike at Norco who passed me straight back to my Singapore distributor who has quoted me more than the chassis costs new to get the backplanes replaced.

That is why I am not happy with local Norco service.

RB

 

[Metaluna]

While the cost of the Supremirco chassis seems much higher than the Norco, keep in mind the SM comes with more parts. Such as dual-redundant PSU and sliding quick mount rails. The PSU alone can make up most of the cost difference. Plus the SM are just better built boxes.

While I completely agree on Supermicro build quality compared to Norco, I'm not convinced about the value proposition of the extra accessories necessarily. In my experience, neither SM nor Norco, straight out of the box, are suitable for use outside of a machine room or data center (this is Serve The HOME after all). I'm not sure about the Supermicro PSUs, but I've had to replace all the fans in my Norco 4220 and Supermicro 5-in-3 backplane anyway, and that's just to make them bearable in my basement, where they only have to be quieter than the washer/dryer and furnace. The Supermicro PSUs don't have to be whisper-quiet, but if they sound anything like the SM cooling fans, they would be a waste of money except as a temporary spare, IMHO.

 

[odditory]

As per this thread, have emailed Mike at Norco who passed me straight back to my Singapore distributor who has quoted me more than the chassis costs new to get the backplanes replaced.

That is why I am not happy with local Norco service.

RB

Is the local "Singapore distributor" actually Norco or a third party company? Shame in any case, I assumed you were in US where Mike will often send them out free -- I have no idea how it works out country to country as far as replacements.