Need some advice/opinions on "broken" hard drives i've sold

[pricklypunter]

I agree, it's a pita, but whatever happened to your disks between you sending them and getting them back again is over and done with now. We can banter all day long about what "might" have happened, but it won't change the fact that your buyer is unhappy, has no disks and is out the cost involved, not to mention your own costs creeping up dealing with it. You need to look forward to protecting your future business. If the shipment was fully insured, I would make a claim, refund the buyer and look to the future

 

[Kevin]

Maybe I missed it but what does well packed mean to you?

I buy a lot of used equipment and I find that well packed means something different to everyone. I read that you pack in individual anti-static bags but nothing about what was used to protect each drive.

This is just my limited experience but I've had brand new oem re4 drives show up dead from newegg that were individually packed in inflatable air bags designed for hard drives, and then surrounded by more inflatable bags to fill out the box. Not 2/3 of them mind you like 1/12 drives but they were brand new not used at all and I've had used drives shipped in anti-static bags + airfoam show up with like 1:4 ratio dead likely because the boxes get thrown around so much because they were tested before shipping. However in both of those cases I contacted the seller the same day as the delivery.

I do think that any time you're buying used/decomm equipment, the buyer has a responsibility to test within a week, maybe 2 at most. I've had stuff sit around for a few months because I was to busy to test it and never bothered to go back to the seller because at that point it's beyond a reasonable DOA timeframe.

 

[Tom5051]

At this point, you really only have two options as I see it. 1. Return the working disks to the buyer, after all, they did buy them, and refund fully the faulty ones making it clear to the buyer that all returned disks have been thoroughly tested again and that you will only accept them back this time if they are obviously physically damaged in transit, or 2. Fully refund them and take it on the chin. If it were me, I might just refund them and move on, after all, you do lots of business with them it seems, so it's swings and roundabouts really

So you think it is reasonably that the buyer, after a month or so, decided to test the drives and more than 50% don't work and now wants a refund?
What's your ebay ID so I can add it to my block list...

 

[ServerSemi]

Who cares who is in your block list. Who do you think you are? I bet you have lost a shit ton of cases on ebay with that attitude.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

I buy a lot of used equipment and I find that well packed means something different to everyone.

A few words of advice for used equipment sellers
A few more words of advice for used equipment sellers

This is just my limited experience but I've had brand new oem re4 drives show up dead from newegg that were individually packed in inflatable air bags designed for hard drives, and then surrounded by more inflatable bags to fill out the box. Not 2/3 of them mind you like 1/12 drives but they were brand new not used at all and I've had used drives shipped in anti-static bags + airfoam show up with like 1:4 ratio dead likely because the boxes get thrown around so much because they were tested before shipping.

That's one reason I refuse to buy drives from Newegg. I don't know if they still use that same packing style, but the style you describes voids WD's warranty on the RE. The only WD-approved packaging methods are the single drive box with plastic end inserts, the 5-drive multi-pack box with foam cutouts, and the 20-drive multi-pack box with molded foam. There is also a 3-drive multi-pack, but I don't think that's in the distribution channel as I've only seen them from the warranty group. Some other WD drives can be shipped in a cardboard plus cling-film clamshell, but not RE's.

I've talked to a number of drive manufacturers about improper packaging by sellers (various, not just Newegg). Unfortunately, the warranty group at manufacturers is in a different profit/loss line than the sale of new drives, so the warranty group doesn't get to "cut off" supply to a non-compliant seller, as much as they'd like to.

HGST does have a diagnostic (HiTest) that checks for handling damage and that is cause for an immediate warranty rejection. So you should never buy them from a seller that says "return to manufacturer for warranty".

I do think that any time you're buying used/decomm equipment, the buyer has a responsibility to test within a week, maybe 2 at most. I've had stuff sit around for a few months because I was to busy to test it and never bothered to go back to the seller because at that point it's beyond a reasonable DOA timeframe.

We don't know the details of the arrangement between the seller and the buyer in this case. Since the seller says they paid for insurance, they apparently had an expectation that the buyer would check the drives and let them know quickly enough to file an insurance claim if the drives were non-functional.

Regardless of whether they provide a partial / full refund to the customer or tell them "tough luck", they should probably use some labels like these on future orders:

 

[pricklypunter]

So you think it is reasonably that the buyer, after a month or so, decided to test the drives and more than 50% don't work and now wants a refund?
What's your ebay ID so I can add it to my block list...

I never expressed any opinion about what I thought was or wasn't reasonable regarding the matter, that's for the op to determine for himself. As far as I see from the op's posts on the matter, the buyer has said they would be equally happy with replacement disks, not just a refund. As much as it's a pain to deal with something going wrong with a sale like this, dealing with matters professionally, in a timely manner and protecting your future business is what really matters here. All the crying over spilled milk won't help put things right for either party. The op has alluded to the fact that the buyer does quite a lot of business with him, so what he loses on this deal, he has an opportunity to make up in the future. As I understand it, the shipment was also insured, so any losses should at least be minimized. Going forward, I would make sure that my sale terms stated a test and return period, after which no claims for DOA would be entertained, but that's only my opinion. I'm not the seller, it's his opinion and his business practises going forward, that matters at the end of the day

Oh and having a pop at me personally with your "What's your ebay ID so I can add it to my block list..." comment is nothing short of petty and only proves to others how poor your impulse control actually is when things either don't go your way or align with your own world view. You would be better spending that wasted energy on something worthwhile, like learning some respect for others, but hey, that's only my opinion

 

[ServerSemi]

Well said pricklypunter. It's better to take it as a lost and make it up in future business than just giving them the middle finger and at the end paypal will end up refunding the money anyways.

 

[vrod]

Guys... let me be clear about something here:

- I have sold about 150+ drives to this person, each time with none or a couple of predictive failing drives. This is the first time with that many.
- Though I have sold a few drives to him I am not a company. I am selling as a private person and without guarantees. The buyer knows this.
- I am a fair person and want the best for both of us. Which is why I offered the buyer a 50/50 settlement.
- I have the proof that the drives worked when I packed them.
- All drives were packed safely like I always do. I've sent a ton of drives to other people and never had issues with drives breaking. Every drive in ts own antistatic bag.
- Buyer signed off for the package and said there was no damage to be seen.
- Package is insured but according to DHL, receiver will have to make an inquery for it.
- All drives where pulled out of working production servers which was upgraded

I'm not trying to cheat anyone here but who would just accept a loss of nearly 3000€? The drives where shipped to me before testing and worked fine. If they worked in production, worked at testing, with no dropping or damage in my custody, with the package not being damaged, can someone please tell me how they have all started to have this clicking sound after being at the buyer? After every testing I properly removed and spun down the drive then waited 5 minutes before taking out the drive from the server.

 

[pricklypunter]

If the faulty disks are making unusual noises when running, I would definitely be claiming for transit damage, but as you have already found out, courier's usually look to the receiver to file/ initiate the claim

 

[vl1969]

If the faulty disks are making unusual noises when running, I would definitely be claiming for transit damage, but as you have already found out, courier's usually look to the receiver to file/ initiate the claim

not sure how it is elsewhere, but in USA I had encounter several times a situation where FedEx expected the sender to submit a claim as opposed to receiver. I had bought few items off ebay that came damaged in a seemingly fine outside packaging, and each time the sender had to initiate the damage claim.
than the seller would return my money and get paid by the carrier insurance.

maybe outside US it is different? interesting

 

[Tom5051]

I'd be curious to know if the shipping company will cover a delivery after more than a month. Surely there would be some sort of clause regarding time frame? Also does it make it more difficult to claim if the recipient has signed for and accepted the delivery and undamaged?

 

[Tom5051]

I'd be curious to know if the shipping company will cover a delivery after more than a month. Surely there would be some sort of clause regarding time frame? Also does it make it more difficult to claim if the recipient has signed for and accepted the delivery and undamaged?

I got off my @$$ and googled it. Seems you have on average, 9 months to make a claim and depending on the level of cover, concealed damage (after signed for) is covered.

I though it would be like 30 days or something.

So yeah I'd try making a claim and failing that, make some sort of deal with the buyer. Paypal is a royal pain the way they seem to always side with the buyer... I don't miss having an eBay store.

 

[vrod]

ok so an update again. Consulted the shipping company and they still said that international shipments (this was from germany to UK) is different from national shipments. National shipment insurance (in germany) is to be claimed by sender but international by the receiver. However buyer refuses this even though I've linked the article from the shipping company. However buyer now has made paypal dispute on full amount, so gotta go through that process now..

 

[Kevin]

That's one reason I refuse to buy drives from Newegg. I don't know if they still use that same packing style, but the style you describes voids WD's warranty on the RE. The only WD-approved packaging methods are the single drive box with plastic end inserts, the 5-drive multi-pack box with foam cutouts, and the 20-drive multi-pack box with molded foam. There is also a 3-drive multi-pack, but I don't think that's in the distribution channel as I've only seen them from the warranty group. Some other WD drives can be shipped in a cardboard plus cling-film clamshell, but not RE's.

I didn't realize there were warranty-based shipping rules that companies were supposed to follow, that's actually good to know. It was within the last 2 years that I got re4's from them like that, and I remember being surprised that they weren't packed as well as hgst deskstar nas drives are considering they're a more expensive enterprise-ish drive.

In newegg's defense though, they're definitely not voiding any warranties when it comes to shipping policies for supermicro hard drive screws:

 

[ttabbal]

I think those are the best packaged screws I've ever seen. Congratulations.. I think...

 

[Kevin]

Yeah, for all the fragile things that don't get shipped properly by newegg and others, the fact that the bag of 100 drive screws came wrapped in paper, a small box, then wrapped in air cushions, and another box made me laugh.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

In newegg's defense though, they're definitely not voiding any warranties when it comes to shipping policies for supermicro hard drive screws:

The white box and everything inside it came as-is from Supermicro. The rest is Newegg's standard "throw the object in a box with a couple of air pillows" packaging.

The best non-manufacturer packaging I've seen was from ZipZoomFly - they had rigid foam pieces glued together to make a complete box for the drive, complete with a foam "front door" flap that opened to access the drive. I still use them when transporting drives to sites - I just used a pair today, as a matter of fact. The door flaps have worn out and fallen off, but other than that the boxes are doing fine.

 

[vrod]

Ok so i lost the case despite all the evidence I provided and also that the buyer did not provide any form of evidence at all and wasn't cooperating. I was never contacted by paypal for further comments and in the case history I see that they spoke through phone to the buyer. Now my account is in minus and I'm left with 30 broken drives.. Any problem if it stays in minus forever?

Will definitely not be dealing with this buyer again. Just thought you guys should have the "ending" as well.

 

[Rand__]

Sorry to hear that
And you won't be able to use paypal if your account is negative. Not sure what else happens...

 

[pricklypunter]

Sorry to hear the outcome. I would have hoped that the buyer would have used some common sense and at least filed a claim with the shipping insurance so that the money aspect was covered. Re the Paypal situation, it's a sizeable amount of money, they are a business and won't take the loss if they can avoid it. They will not only block your account while it remains in an unsatisfactory state, but they will also chase you down for any outstanding balance. Worse if your account is linked to credit cards or a bank account, as they will attempt to recover the money that way and if unsuccessful will then most likely involve debt collectors etc. In the end, it could affect your credit rating. Maybe if you provide proof to the shipping company that the buyer has been refunded, they will now entertain a claim? Got to be worth one last shot, no?