MinisForum MS-01 : heating problem

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caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
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Hello again,

it seems i have a big trouble with heating.
My ms-01 has been running unraid with no device (only ram and 1 usb key as array device ) during 2 or 3 days with no problems.
Yesterday i received my hba (9300-8e) which i flashed to it firmware.
Today i moved devices from old server to ms-01.
9300-8e + DAS with 6 drives
2 ssd 2210 (i wait for the 3rd as i can't mount it in the m2 port )
I booted unraid and was occupied with interface settings. And 15 minutes after boot i received heat notifications.
ssd disappeared. I shutdown and the entire chassis was so hot.
hba was really super hot.

I let time to cool down and rebooted to bios. Fans were ok.
I rebooted to unraid and in ten minutes ssds went up to 80°C (they were idling)

In the old server i had these ssds (4 of them) on a plx card and under load they could be at 60 or 65°C.
all ssds are the same model: SK Hynix HFS960GD0TEG-6410A M.2 SSD 960GB NVME

What could be wrong in my config that make it heat like a toaster ?


edit: strange thing : i switch m2 fan mode to full and speed alternate between 700rpm and 0.
I think i may have a defective fan.
Tried without hba : in unraid nvme temp is high til 85°C till i shut down. I really think this m2 fan is dead.
 
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wadup

Member
Feb 13, 2024
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I would leave everything in there the way you want it with the cover off. Make sure the ssd fan is plugged in and did not get unplugged installing ssds etc. Make sure all the fans are spinning and boot into the Bios | Advanced | HW monitor & Smart Fan

Screenshot 2024-03-07 092807.png

Monitor the temps and see if the fans are working. I am pretty close to defaults on fan curve so your RPM's should be close to mine. If it still gets hot. Get a fan on the 9300 see if it helps. There is no air flow on the pci slot so if whatever you are using gets hot it will roast the machine.

nvme fan just make sure its spinning and maybe even change from auto to full speed see what happens. Sounds like your nvme fan is bad or got unplugged. My nvme drives stay at 30C so the fan is really good when its working.

Also maybe find another hba that runs cooler.
 
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caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
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I did dozen of tries with or without cover, hba, ssd.
The main problem was the fan on the ssds.
At first the ssd was in the way of the fan and the fan was at low speed. I slightly bend the ssd and it was ok.
There is absolutely no clearance on top of the ssd; nor on top of the fan with the cover.

Right now it's idling with unraid booted, a pool of 2 ssd. Hba is there but no cable.
It's in fresh place and temps are :
cpu 51°C
system: 50°C
m.2 fan is at 1750rpm
ssd1 is at 50°C (smart value)
ssd2 is at 55°C (smart value)
I cleaned and repasted hba.

I asked the support but had no real answer; even when i asked how to use a 22110 M.2 in the "U.2" port.
I have to decide whether i send it back or try to make it run as i want.
But given the temps i have with no load in a fresh place i've not much hope.
How would get a fan on the hba ? I haven't noticed a fan header on it. it's a fujitsu cp400e flashed with IT.

With the cover, 2 ssd and hba:
Capture d’écran 2024-03-07 à 17.18.59.png
 
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wadup

Member
Feb 13, 2024
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So now you have the nvme fan seated correctly and confirmed its working? Correct me if I am wrong when the nvme fan was not flush your nvme was overheating? Can you do me a favor and snap a picture of your nvme/ssd config. Hard for me to visualize how you have everything placed.
 

wadup

Member
Feb 13, 2024
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So with my ms-01 it sits in a closet with air flow and is 72F from AC. I have 2 nvme 1 2280 and 1 2242. I have a a2000 gpu installed as well and I replaced the paste with liquid metal.

Screenshot 2024-03-07 124709.png

In the bios the temps will shoot up as you noticed your idle temps with Unraid are lower.

My Unraid idle temps:
Screenshot 2024-03-07 124206.png

I adjusted the fan temps/speeds as well looking for max speed without being able to hear it.
 

caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
58
12
8
So now you have the nvme fan seated correctly and confirmed its working? Correct me if I am wrong when the nvme fan was not flush your nvme was overheating? Can you do me a favor and snap a picture of your nvme/ssd config. Hard for me to visualize how you have everything placed.
i didn't try without the fan. I had to push (to bend it down) a little on the nvme near the wifi card; and then the fan could spin freely.
I haven't heard the noise of the fan before as i was next to a big unifi switch.
For now i have 2 22110 ssd in the pcie3 ports. The pcie4 is free but i need a ssd in this port; or i get an sas ssd in the das.

in unraid smart data says ssd1 (nvme0n1): 51°C and ssd2 (nvme1n1) :57°C

In the meantime my other server has the exact same ssds at 28 and 31°C (they are on plx card)
 

caplam

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Dec 12, 2018
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wadup

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Feb 13, 2024
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How hot do your 22110 drives run? Like what is normal assuming they are running at normal temps and ms-01 is not unique?
 

caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
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I don’t know max temps from specs.
In my z620 they idle at 30•c and under heavy load it rises to 60•c.
In the ms01 it’s 20 to 25•c more when idle. No test under load so far.
 

wadup

Member
Feb 13, 2024
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Any heatsinks/fan on nvme in your z620 setup or just bare? hba removed nvme still 20-25C higher in ms-01 or do temps drop?
 

caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
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Any heatsinks/fan on nvme in your z620 setup or just bare? hba removed nvme still 20-25C higher in ms-01 or do temps drop?
yes a big heatsink for 4 ssd which cover the whole card and with fan on the plx chip.
I'll do some more tries. I have to grab my temp probes.
But the main problem is solved. For the record the ssd was in the way of the fan and i had to bend it down a little. the fan touch the ssd. I'll buy some nylon washer to add clearance.
I think screws are M2 so if i find washer M2 0,2mm it should be good.
 
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caplam

Member
Dec 12, 2018
58
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So i made some more tests with temp probes.
All tests without activity. Idle under unraid.
with hba:
temp above the hba (top of the case): 51+°C
temp near the bracket of the hba (back of the case): 40+°C
ssds temp 51 and 58 °C

without hba:
temp above the hba (top of the case): 33+°C
temp near the bracket of the hba (back of the case): 38°C
ssds temp 42 and 47 °C

The hba is largely responsible for temp raise.
To limit this and given the design of the case i think i will put an usb extraction fan on top of the case. It will lower temp in the pcie card area. This would probably benefit to the whole system.

Concerning the ssd area. There is not much we can do regarding vents on the case. In another topic BlueChris suggested to blow air from under the case.
 

BlueChris

Active Member
Jul 18, 2021
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Athens-Greece
I just installed an Optane P4801x on myne.. i will use it as L2Arc mainly in a nested truenas.
The temps went up alot when i stress test the Optane. Optane is happy even with 70c and i know it because i have many of them in work in Truenas but in this tiny box it gives temperature to everything that is in the back side. The Samsung 990pro reached 55c.

MS-01-Disks.jpg

As i see it there are two ways here...
1. To put a 5v 120mm fan taking power from a usb port
2. To completeley disassemble the machine and put it in a bigger box where with 1-2 120mm fans it will be cool happy (maybe put it inside a bigger box as it is and just have funs? i haven't test that yet)
 

heromode

Active Member
May 25, 2020
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I've rolled my eyes at this for months.. eventually it will be consensus, i'm just amazed how so many smart people here keep trying like fools, like small babies..

I don't get how people can be so slow regarding this.

I sit here wondering how long it will take for you people to realize the MS-01 is a completely flawed design, and will soon be trading at 80% discount because it does not have a fully perforated case, with an option to mount 120mm - 200mm case fans outside the case in a push-pull configuration, just like a tower cooler.

the MS-01 is a joke, and anyone still thinking about buying it, don't. The early adopters here, god bless them, are guinea pigs, and all manufacturers will move to external cooling with fully perforated cases based on the feedback from this ridiculous clown show.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to run all these high performance components in a small closed case with small internal fans. It works for a week, then the MS-01 will become worthless.

Well maybe some fool entrepeneur will start selling 3D printed perforated replacement cases with externally mounted case fans for awhile, to soothe the feelings of the poor MS-01 first buyers..

But for those still thinking about buying this crap, don't. In say 6 months from now, the manufacturers will start announcing next gen solutions, which will be designed exactly as i have described here for months, ever since the first, original MS-01 thread.

I'm getting really frustrated of how nobody except me seems to realize this. Don't waste your money.
 
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heromode

Active Member
May 25, 2020
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source extra thin 180mm case fans, say 8mm thick, and mount them on both sides of a perforated case, it doesn't need high RPM, like in a traditional case, because all the components are so close, and airflow has nowhere else to go except straight over the components.. Say 2x 400 RPM 8x180mm fans on both side of the case, with the current components in between, and you have your mini sized hypervisor, that runs smoothly and silently for years.

It's not rocket science
 

heromode

Active Member
May 25, 2020
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plus as a major difference from traditional ATX cases, you will be able to replace / clean the external fans while system is running