LSI MegaRAID SAS 9240-4i and Dell R415

[istav555]

Hi guys,

I recently got 2 Dell R415 servers (thanks again OzB!) and been testing them out since. I like everything except the storage speeds. SAS seems to be working at SATA 2.0 speeds but SATA is limited to SATA 1.0 (maybe there's something wrong with the config in 6/iR, although I doubt it).

Anyway, I'll be getting another RAID card, I want SATA 3.0. I had good experiences with LSI cards so thinking of getting an LSI again. From what I can understand from R415 and LSI docs, the 9240-4i will be compatible with the R415. But since I haven't got any experience with any Dell servers, can someone please verify this?

From the R415 docs:
I/O Slots
1 PCIe G2 slot + 1 storage slot:
One x16 slot
One storage x4 slot

And from LSI:
Physical Dimensions: Low profile (6.6" x 2.536")
Host Bus Type: x8 lane PCI Express 2.0

I guess the storage slot in R415 is used by the 6/iR controller? Do I just remove this and plug the LSI card to the (supposedly) currently empty x16 slot?

Also, what about cables? Will the current ones used with 6/iR be compatible? Or do I need new ones?

I don't have physical access to these servers as they are colocated in the US and I'm in Europe, so I need a plan before telling the guys at the DC what to do.

Thanks!

 

[Diavuno]

yes, just swap out the current controller. It should be a direct swap.

make sure you get the appropriate full or half height card.

 

[istav555]

Thank you for the reply, however I found something that might make SATA drives work at SATA 2.0 speeds.

SAS 6/iR Integrated SAS + SATA (SSD) Negotiated speed PE1950 - PowerEdge HDD/SCSI/RAID Forum - Servers - Dell Community

It seems that using a SATA to SAS interposer will work. Will test this first.

 

[Dajinn]

The integrated PERC/SAS cards in the R-series servers tend to sit in the middle of the board without an expansion slot backplate and are usually non-reference PCBs with LSI controllers. If you buy a straight up "original" 9240-4i I am not sure it would fit 100% compatibly in the slot if the motherboard has any of those pins/mounting pillars or clips that keep the Dell card secured in the slot. You will need to be sure that the card you get is not too long directionally from the storage slot to the front of the case. I don't doubt that you could just leave a card hanging in the slot without any major issue it's still something I would double check.

 

[istav555]

The integrated PERC/SAS cards in the R-series servers tend to sit in the middle of the board without an expansion slot backplate and are usually non-reference PCBs with LSI controllers. If you buy a straight up "original" 9240-4i I am not sure it would fit 100% compatibly in the slot if the motherboard has any of those pins/mounting pillars or clips that keep the Dell card secured in the slot. You will need to be sure that the card you get is not too long directionally from the storage slot to the front of the case. I don't doubt that you could just leave a card hanging in the slot without any major issue it's still something I would double check.

I believe you're right, I have seen some pictures of the R415 servers and there's some cabling for the disks that goes to to the middle of the motherboard. That would be the "storage x4 slot" that Dell lists in it's specs for R415 servers.

I won't be using this if I get the LSI card, I'll be using the full normal x16 slot. In that case I'll probably have problems with the current cabling, it'll probably be too short, but we'll see.

But if the interposer works I'll be alright anyway. I think that it should work... Will report back once I receive them.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

The integrated PERC/SAS cards in the R-series servers tend to sit in the middle of the board without an expansion slot backplate and are usually non-reference PCBs with LSI controllers.

In general, the integrated version of a Dell disk controller is the same as the slot version, just without the bracket and with a different PCI ID. The modular version of the controller is a completely different form factor.

Dells are known to complain about "Unrecognized device in integrated slot" if you try to put random things in there.

Dell controllers may or may not work unmodified in non-Dell systems. Dell uses the SMBUS on connector pins B5 and B6 which sometimes need to be isolated.

 

[istav555]

I hate these incompatibilities and non-standard setups... Normally I work only with SuperMicro servers and boards, everything works out of the box (at least whatever I have tried until now).

But these Dells were too good to pass with the asking price... Worst case scenario, if it doesn't work our, I'll take out the RAM and use it on something else.

I ordered the trays with the interposers pre-installed, should be delivered within the week.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

I hate these incompatibilities and non-standard setups... Normally I work only with SuperMicro servers and boards, everything works out of the box (at least whatever I have tried until now).

But these Dells were too good to pass with the asking price... Worst case scenario, if it doesn't work our, I'll take out the RAM and use it on something else.

It depends on what you are used to, I think. I found the Supermicro cards to be weird (the card is on the wrong edge of the bracket for normal use), but I use Supermicro motherboards.

Most of the Dell cards with LSI chips can be flashed to the generic LSI firmware, although things like the LEDs may not operate properly.

 

[istav555]

Sorry, I meant motherboards. I mainly use Supermicro motherboards and LSI RAID cards and Intel NICs. I have no experience with Supermicro addon cards.

 

[Dajinn]

In general, the integrated version of a Dell disk controller is the same as the slot version, just without the bracket and with a different PCI ID. The modular version of the controller is a completely different form factor.

Dells are known to complain about "Unrecognized device in integrated slot" if you try to put random things in there.

Dell controllers may or may not work unmodified in non-Dell systems. Dell uses the SMBUS on connector pins B5 and B6 which sometimes need to be isolated.

The pin isolation tidbit is good information. I wonder if it's why I can't flash my H800 to a 9261-8i without the SBR reverting back after every reboot...

 

[istav555]

Ok, got the tray and it's the wrong kind... It's too wide. That's ok, it was $20, so not much harm done. But I'm having a huge problem locating the right trays for these R415 servers that include interposers.

Is this an odd config or people just didn't care for that when these were new?!?

 

[Terry Kennedy]

Ok, got the tray and it's the wrong kind... It's too wide. That's ok, it was $20, so not much harm done. But I'm having a huge problem locating the right trays for these R415 servers that include interposers.

Is this an odd config or people just didn't care for that when these were new?!?

I'm pretty sure that the R415 uses the same drive trays as the R710 - F238F (and other P/Ns) for 3.5" and G176J (and other P/Ns) for 2.5". I generally buy used Dell-branded drives (mostly SAS) for my R710 systems, but I have occasionally used generic SATA drives.

There are separate mounting holes labeled SAS and SATA(u) in the trays, but every drive I've either mounted in a tray or that came with a system has been in the SAS holes, regardless of whether it is a SATA drive or not. The R710 backplane is mostly-passive (6 3.5" bays or 8 2.5" bays, so no need for expanders) - it just has a SES port for management. Compare with the PowerVault NX3100, which has a SAS expander as it has 14 bays (12 hot-swap and 2 internal) and uses the same controllers as the R710. You shouldn't use SATA drives on a SAS expander anyway.

The only time I've ever seen an interposer used is in the older style trays (R300 and similar style) when a system was ordered with a mix of SAS and SATA devices. In that case, the drive type / capacity sticker on the tray handle is labeled SATAu and the tray has an interposer.

The interposer is essentially a single-port SAS "expander" that speaks SAS on the host side and SATA on the drive side. If you don't mix SAS and SATA drives in the system and there are no expanders in the system, you don't need interposers.

 

[whitey]

The integrated PERC/SAS cards in the R-series servers tend to sit in the middle of the board without an expansion slot backplate and are usually non-reference PCBs with LSI controllers. If you buy a straight up "original" 9240-4i I am not sure it would fit 100% compatibly in the slot if the motherboard has any of those pins/mounting pillars or clips that keep the Dell card secured in the slot. You will need to be sure that the card you get is not too long directionally from the storage slot to the front of the case. I don't doubt that you could just leave a card hanging in the slot without any major issue it's still something I would double check.

I ran into this a few months back on a buddies R610's in the co-lo. CANNOT put in stg card slot (forget what they label it) have to use std PCIe slot for non-standard HBA, some incompat issues w/ the PERC slot once I flashed the H200 (in his case) to LSI FW IT mode v19. Just use a std PCIe slot and you'll be good.

EDIT: Looks like others have covered this topic well and I am not adding much to what has already been said.

 

[istav555]

I'm pretty sure that the R415 uses the same drive trays as the R710 - F238F (and other P/Ns) for 3.5" and G176J (and other P/Ns) for 2.5". I generally buy used Dell-branded drives (mostly SAS) for my R710 systems, but I have occasionally used generic SATA drives.

There are separate mounting holes labeled SAS and SATA(u) in the trays, but every drive I've either mounted in a tray or that came with a system has been in the SAS holes, regardless of whether it is a SATA drive or not. The R710 backplane is mostly-passive (6 3.5" bays or 8 2.5" bays, so no need for expanders) - it just has a SES port for management. Compare with the PowerVault NX3100, which has a SAS expander as it has 14 bays (12 hot-swap and 2 internal) and uses the same controllers as the R710. You shouldn't use SATA drives on a SAS expander anyway.

The only time I've ever seen an interposer used is in the older style trays (R300 and similar style) when a system was ordered with a mix of SAS and SATA devices. In that case, the drive type / capacity sticker on the tray handle is labeled SATAu and the tray has an interposer.

The interposer is essentially a single-port SAS "expander" that speaks SAS on the host side and SATA on the drive side. If you don't mix SAS and SATA drives in the system and there are no expanders in the system, you don't need interposers.

Thanks, and you're right except (maybe) the last part. I tried to use just one SATA drive with nothing else connected and it still runs at SATA 1.0 speeds. But, other than that SATA and SAS can be mixed, they do work (at least on the R415).

But anyway, I won't be pursuing the interposer solution, it's just too hard to locate the right tray. I'll get a new LSI card and use that in the regular PCI slot. But to do that I need to have eyes and hands at the datacenter. I asked my provider if they can do that (verify PCI slot type and availability, check current cabling and then suggest the right new cables, install both card and new cabling, setup BIOS and card BIOS accordingly). In case they can't do that, does anyone have in mind any techs or MSP/IT services providers that can do such work in Dallas?

Or better yet, if there's anyone from this forum available in Dallas that can do this kind of work just contact me.

 

[istav555]

Just use a std PCIe slot and you'll be good.

True, that's what I intend to do! More work and more expenses but I'll also get SATA 3.0.....