Low power challenge

[recklessgorilla]

Currently running server 2016 w/ storage spaces and hyper-v and plex. Mainly using plex right now but planning on adding several other VM's in hyper-v. pfsense or security onion and hosting some family photo sites/owncloud/gns3/ect.

Right now I feel like I should just upgrade the processor to support the VM load I am planning on having. I want to make a sensible purchase. (no major increase in power use/modest hardware cost/enough horse power to support everything) i.e. Not going for a 32 thread dual E5-2670.

Right now I am looking at either getting a Xeon E3-1265L v3 or xeon e3-1245 v3 ($220 vs $275) [2 year breakeven on power costs with 24x7 usage on the 1265L]

I am wondering if that $$$ spent on a processor upgrade would be better put to all new used enterprise hardware that may be more expensive but will give me better performance for the same power usage.

I would love to again have a mobo that supports IPMI.
I would love to find a cheep SAS expander that works Windows 2016. - the IBM dropped off support after win2008.

old rig - had stability issues on 2012. Didn't bother hunting them down, I know the SAS cards were an issue tho.
supermicro X7DCL-I LGA 771
2x Intel Xeon L5420
2x IBM M1015 SAS expanders
32gb ecc reg ddr2


Current Rig
Asus z97 extreme 6
pentium g3258
16gb non reg non ecc ram 4x4(full sloted)

running 7 sata hdds for storage spaces

ST3000DM001-1CH166 (helios) 2.73 TB
WDC WD50EZRX-00MVLB1 (helios) 4.55 TB
WDC WD30EZRX-00MMMB0 (helios) 2.73 TB
WDC WD30EZRX-00MMMB0 (helios) 2.73 TB
Hitachi HDS5C3020ALA632 (helios) 1.82 TB
Hitachi HDS5C3020ALA632 (helios) 1.82 TB
WDC WD50EZRX-00MVLB1 (helios) 4.55 TB


thoughts?

 

[nk215]

How are you going to upgrade just the CPU? You'll need a new MB/Memory with either of the 2 CPU E3-1200 you listed.

Look up the motherboard and memory prices for Xeon E3-1200 family CPU.

Power at idle between E3-1265L vs. E3-1245 is about the same. TDP is at max load.

A cost sensitive, but with great upgrade path, is the Intel board with a single E5-2670. Basically you have access to all but one PCIe slots with a single CPU on that board. Together, they cost less than a single E3-1245.

Another option is to get a ThinkServer TS140. Keep in mind E3-1200 has a max 32G memory. That's often not enough for "several" VMs.

Any of the above options will give you 2-3X the CPU power you have right now.

One thing I learned, there's no such thing as sensible purchase when you join this community.

 

[recklessgorilla]

How are you going to upgrade just the CPU? You'll need a new MB/Memory with either of the 2 CPU E3-1200 you listed.

Look up the motherboard and memory prices for Xeon E3-1200 family CPU.

Power at idle between E3-1265L vs. E3-1245 is about the same. TDP is at max load.

A cost sensitive, but with great upgrade path, is the Intel board with a single E5-2670. Basically you have access to all but one PCIe slots with a single CPU on that board. Together, they cost less than a single E3-1245.

Another option is to get a ThinkServer TS140. Keep in mind E3-1200 has a max 32G memory. That's often not enough for "several" VMs.

Any of the above options will give you 2-3X the CPU power you have right now.

One thing I learned, there's no such thing as sensible purchase when you join this community.

I can just throw the E3 CPU in my current build - here is the my current motherboards CPU compatibility chart. ASRock > Z97 Extreme6

I will add the the biggest downside of my current Motherboard is lack of ECC Ram and IPMI.

I am seriously considering the single E5-2670. Only concern is the additional power draw and need to buy a new MOBO/RAM and SAS card.

 

[nk215]

I stand corrected. I am not familiar with asrock boards.

Depend on what you use IPMI for you may be able to find a work around. I only use IPMI for remote power control. A $40 Pi can do that job for me.

Since all you need is an E3, give that option a try. If it doesn't work out, you can unload it with minimal loss.

 

[recklessgorilla]

I stand corrected. I am not familiar with asrock boards.

Depend on what you use IPMI for you may be able to find a work around. I only use IPMI for remote power control. A $40 Pi can do that job for me.

Since all you need is an E3, give that option a try. If it doesn't work out, you can unload it with minimal loss.

Should I shoot for a low watt haswell i7/E3(w /HT) or should I just try and find the cheepest i7/e3 I can find.

$220 E3-1245v3 84W
$275 E3-1265Lv3 45W
$230 i7-4770S 65W

Or will the power costs be significantly higher if I buy an E5 setup?

 

[maze]

its pretty hard to tell what your gains are $'wise if we dont know how much you are paying per kwh

 

[Rand__]

Basically L (or low power cpus) are only needed if TDP is limited (ie environmental limitations). Else most modern CPUs idle at the same low power values whether they are L or not.
So in the end, the amount of power you use is only depending on the total workload you put on it, with the fastest most consuming CPUs being the most efficient ones interestingly.
So get what you can afford and don't look only at L cpus

 

[nk215]

Basically L (or low power cpus) are only needed if TDP is limited (ie environmental limitations). Else most modern CPUs idle at the same low power values whether they are L or not.
So in the end, the amount of power you use is only depending on the total workload you put on it, with the fastest most consuming CPUs being the most efficient ones interestingly.
So get what you can afford and don't look only at L cpus

I agree. Looking at L processors only make sense if a user want to minimize noise or the cooling system can't support the higher heat output. At max power, L processor uses way less power but but takes longer to do the same job (video encoding for example).

 

[recklessgorilla]

its pretty hard to tell what your gains are $'wise if we dont know how much you are paying per kwh

Not to much - .9-12 cents per kwh depending on season.

 

[Marsh]

In my opinion, your biggest power saving comes from replacing the older small capacity disks with newer bigger disks.
Also spin down the drives that are not in use.

 

[recklessgorilla]

Basically L (or low power cpus) are only needed if TDP is limited (ie environmental limitations). Else most modern CPUs idle at the same low power values whether they are L or not.
So in the end, the amount of power you use is only depending on the total workload you put on it, with the fastest most consuming CPUs being the most efficient ones interestingly.
So get what you can afford and don't look only at L cpus

Did not realize that. So there is no/not a noticeable difference in the power a L vs non L would consume while idle, just when usage is at max. But even then the non L will finish the job quicker and return to idle. So it's a wash. So the real point is what nk215 mentions with heat/noise while the CPU is at max and cooling it.

I agree. Looking at L processors only make sense if a user want to minimize noise or the cooling system can't support the higher heat output. At max power, L processor uses way less power but but takes longer to do the same job (video encoding for example).

The only thing I would want to limit would be noise. I am running this all in an ATX mid tower right now. I do have a 2U case that has 15 3.5" inch bays that is quiet, but love the size of this thing currently.

Sounds like the best thing $$$ wise is getting the beefiest best bang for the buck CPU my current MOBO will support.

If I were to not go that route, but look to more of a single or dual e5 build. What would you guys say is the best bang for the buck CPU/MOBO/ and then Case combo(something that can run quiet), and any recommendations on SAS cards that would work in passthough with server 2016?

Thanks!!!

 

[recklessgorilla]

In my opinion, your biggest power saving comes from replacing the older small capacity disks with newer bigger disks.
Also spin down the drives that are not in use.

Have not thought about it from that angle before. Those most likely consume 3-6 watts while running? So with at my kwh cost around 5 bucks a year per drive at 24x7 usage. It's a tough pill to swallow upgrade wise because I don't really need more space yet. (quickly getting their). I also feel like best bang per buck on HDD's is still around 4-6 TB drives. Going to 8 or 10tb is hard to justify. I have always just swapped out and added drives as they fail or as I have needed additional space.

 

[Jb boin]

As i said on another thread, low power CPU might also have differences on the P-State and other optimizations (at least for socket 1366 ones) : Low power servers - does socket matter?
I also did compare the same server with a Pentium G2020 and a Core i3 2100, the idle value was about the same or maybe even better for the i3 which isnt a great surprise as there are as much physical cores but the i3 has HT.


In your case, you really dont need much power but the Pentium Gxxxx are really slow for any server use, we are comparing them to Core2Duo/Core2Quad in term of performance but with a better efficiency.

Last month, i upgraded my home server from an old Core2Duo E5300 with 4Gb of RAM to a X8STi with a Xeon L5640 on it and 12Gb of RAM (i took these at work which didnt cost me a buck).
In the end, it should be less power hungry and i have 6* more CPU cores, 3* the RAM and an IPMI so now i dont have to plug the TV to it in case of issues.

With the disks you have, you wont be able to lower the total power that much by changing just the CPU and motherboard as the G3xxx are already quite economic but you can enhance dramatically the performance.

I wouldnt recommand a dual Xeon as its definitely not justified for your usage (32 threads are hard to exploit fully on a home server), you could go for a single Xeon E3 if you dont need more than 32Gb of RAM and more single core performance or a single Xeon E5 ideally low power or even older L5630 or L5640 if you want a complete server for a low budget on which you could fit all your disks, for example its the server model i used for some of the power tests on the other topic i linked : HP ProLiant SE326M1 G6 - 12 x 3.5" (Configure-To-Order)

 

[fractal]

You are unlikely to save any money on power by changing the processor on that motherboard.

Are you processor limited at the moment?

If not, your best bet for expanding the capabilities of that system might be to max out memory at 32GB.