Is it normal UPS batteries degrade so much?

[Octopuss]

I bought a rackmount UPS for a small home server about three years ago. It is APC SMT1000RMI2U that supposedly, according to the seller on Ebay, had brand new battery installed.
During those three years, the batteries were drained dry maybe four times max, and the UPS wasn't ever needed for longer than minutes or so.

I did a battery runtime recalibration today, and to my shock, it lasts about three minutes at 10% load. That's basically dead.
How is this possible?

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Used UPS from some random seller. <- There is your problem.

Are they OEM or cheap off brand batteries?

 

[Octopuss]

No there is not my problem. It was a reputable seller and there were stickers. I don't remember the details, but it all looked good.

Now answer my question please.

 

[Octopuss]

Actually, the sticker is still right there at the front. Silly me.

 

[uldise]

random off brand batteries last about two years..

 

[Octopuss]

That still doesn't anwswer my question, even if it was the case (I can't open the thing up right now).
Why? The batteries hardly discharged four times since being installed.

 

[sko]

How is this possible?

because APC completely trashes the batteries with way too high voltages (so they read higher initial runtimes). A battery life of ~2 years is considered "normal" according to APC...

Use another brand and they will easily live 3-5 years in an on-line UPS (many more in line-interactive ones).
We used to replace batteries in our APC UPSs every ~1.5-2 years and those batteries were usually COMPLETELY dead and total fire hazards - bloated, melted terminals or cables etc...
Since we dumped them and switched everything to powerwalker we get at least 3-4 years out of the same brand batteries, even for the branches without AC (i.e. battery temps up to 40-45°C in summer). In 2 UPS we recently replaced the batteries after 5 years as a precaution, altough they had >80% capacity according to the UPS and the battery test we did after we pulled them.
Those replaced batteries look perfectly normal and have normal degradation (i.e. <70% capacity triggered a warning), not total failures as was the norm with APC.

 

[Octopuss]

What the...
Unfortunately this is not something I can replace anytime soon due to financial priorities.

So there is no way to configure an APC unit not to do this? (assuming what you say is correct)

 

[oneplane]

As far as I can tell you can trick it by modifying the shunt and the divider to make it think the current and voltage is higher than it really is. There isn't any software control on the SMT models AFAICT. I have a couple of similar models spread around the country and they are all really just a buffer for the systems to shut down, not really to 'run' on.

This is mainly because whenever power goes out, the rest of the business can't operate either so it's somewhat pointless. When the business needs actual runtime, they are going to need something different (and only a few percent actually recognise that and do something with that information).

In your case, you might be better off with an external battery hack since the 'cartridges' are just dumb SLA groups; as long as you put a DC-DC charge/discharge controller between the APC and the external battery it will last much longer. Connectors are easy to come by as well.

Just in case this is the rabbit hole for your, make sure you don't go overboard with a ton of unsealed batteries and many more amps than the controller in the APC would be able to deal with (also add fuses if you do go for a huge battery etc.). A link: https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/ktdilc

 

[Octopuss]

For home use it's ok, but the batteries suck. I bought the UPS because I roughly calculated it was supposed to be able to keep the server (plus AP on the roof plus switch) for about two hours, or one at the very least (not sure anymore). I had no idea batteries degrade over time though.
The other brands I considered (I think I have a thread here from back then) were Cyberpower, which I was warned against by a tech from one of the local larger IT service centres who specializes in UPSes), and Eaton, which you can't really get for any decent price.

I will see if I can get something better than the basic APC stuff from one of my contacts, and certainly will take a look what is actually installed at the moment.

 

[oneplane]

Keep in mind that they all do similar things in the same price range, there's very little money to be made otherwise.

 

[BoredSysadmin]

because APC completely trashes the batteries with way too high voltages (so they read higher initial runtimes). A battery life of ~2 years is considered "normal" according to APC...

Use another brand and they will easily live 3-5 years in an on-line UPS (many more in line-interactive ones).
We used to replace batteries in our APC UPSs every ~1.5-2 years and those batteries were usually COMPLETELY dead and total fire hazards - bloated, melted terminals or cables etc...
Since we dumped them and switched everything to powerwalker we get at least 3-4 years out of the same brand batteries, even for the branches without AC (i.e. battery temps up to 40-45°C in summer). In 2 UPS we recently replaced the batteries after 5 years as a precaution, altough they had >80% capacity according to the UPS and the battery test we did after we pulled them.
Those replaced batteries look perfectly normal and have normal degradation (i.e. <70% capacity triggered a warning), not total failures as was the norm with APC.

I've had a similar experience with my old APC 750 VA SmartUPS. Used to replace off-brand batteries every 2 years.
Replaced it with eBay bought HP G4 1500VA (rebranded Eaton) for $80 with used batteries over 3 years ago. Still going strong on the original batteries unit came with.

HP T1500 G4 J2P87A UPS 1080W 1500VA 120V 776500-007 Tower Power Backup | eBay

MODEL J2P87A. MAXIMUM POWER 1080W / 1440VA. MPN 776500-07, T1500 G4. FORM FACTOR Mini Tower. Output power capacity 1440VA. Output power capacity 1080 Watts. Input Connection Type NEMA 5-15P. Data line Surge Protection USB, RS-232.

www.ebay.com

 

[Octopuss]

If I didn't want a rackmount unit the options would certainly be larger.

 

[oneplane]

If I didn't want a rackmount unit the options would certainly be larger.

You might be able to get a rebranded rack mount version of this, the trick is to find out what proper UPSes are getting resold and looking at eBay for them.

The most expensive option to get a 'good' model would be going straight to eaton and Schneider, they generally have plenty of proper modular 'do whatever you need it to do' configurations. But those are way overkill (and too costly) for homelabs. But finding out what the 'previous generation' was and then looking for companies that are scrapping them can be a good deal. I think there was some Symmetra version where the batteries are just 'dumb' modules when you run them in single phase mode and those are old enough to be very cheap and very find-able.

 

[BoredSysadmin]

If I didn't want a rackmount unit the options would certainly be larger.

HP J2Q99A R1500 G4 NA UPS UNINTERRUPTIBLE POWER SYSTEM with 30 day warranty!!! | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP J2Q99A R1500 G4 NA UPS UNINTERRUPTIBLE POWER SYSTEM with 30 day warranty!!! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Octopuss]

Yeah, well, maybe five years down the line when I can actually afford to spend any money on the server

 

[Wasmachineman_NL]

I've had a similar experience with my old APC 750 VA SmartUPS. Used to replace off-brand batteries every 2 years.
Replaced it with eBay bought HP G4 1500VA (rebranded Eaton) for $80 with used batteries over 3 years ago. Still going strong on the original batteries unit came with.

HP T1500 G4 J2P87A UPS 1080W 1500VA 120V 776500-007 Tower Power Backup | eBay

MODEL J2P87A. MAXIMUM POWER 1080W / 1440VA. MPN 776500-07, T1500 G4. FORM FACTOR Mini Tower. Output power capacity 1440VA. Output power capacity 1080 Watts. Input Connection Type NEMA 5-15P. Data line Surge Protection USB, RS-232.

www.ebay.com

Eaton has some special sauce that extends battery life.

 

[BoredSysadmin]

Eaton has some special sauce that extends battery life.

yes, they use a different charging algorithm - ABM, which extends battery life

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/eaton-abm-technology-ap162003en.pdf

 

[nexox]

No affiliation, but I have acquired a few rackmount UPSes from this ebay seller for a decent price (considering the weight I can't imagine the seller kept much after paying shipping): MNTechnology | eBay Stores

They claim new batteries, and I pulled a couple sleds out, they appear to have been serviced (original zipties missing,) and the batteries are a name brand, at least based on my basic knowledge of the sealed lead acid battery market, but the UPSes still fail self test with a very vague battery voltage error (I still get plenty of capacity, 100W for my desktop and monitors takes two hours to run the batteries down from 100% to 80%.)

 

[Octopuss]

I will just keep an eye out on Eaton when I have the funds. Just not sure what model. Not anything current for sure, those are extremely expensive even used last time I checked.