HP Z2 Mini G9 Info? Thunderbolt?

[NickKX]

Hi, I have just acquired one of these and I have a few questions for the people who have some experience with them.
It currently has a 12500K. What would be the best processor to upgrade it to? I would think that i9s are out since there are power and thermal concerns.
I was thinking maybe a 13700k or 14700k?
Second, it came with a DisplayPort FlexIO module -- I would like to get the thunderbolt 3 one.
I asked HP and they gave me the part number (440A5AA) but it's backordered / out of stock literally everywhere including at HP themselves...
Yet they seem to have stock for new builds (which I don't quite understand...).
Any idea what the deal with this is?
Also it looks like there are a total of THREE different FlexIO standards and they are all incompatible with each other...?

How about getting a PCIe thunderbolt card instead? Anything I should know regarding compatibility?
If anyone else has some tips about this computer I would love to hear them.
This will be my first non Mac (or non-ARM SBC) in ~10 years so I am probably in for a treat if things go well, and a nightmare if things don't

What I am planning on using it for -- I have a few thunderbolt RAID boxes, Promise Pegasus...I would like to put them on my 10Ggb E network instead of running them as DAS.

So I would also need a 10Gb NIC for this HP box too...but I was thinking of using the PCIe slot for that. OR I could use the PCIe slot for a thunderbolt card and then get the 10Gb FlexIO NIC -- which IS actually in stock, but it's expensive (yikes!).

OR I could go with a 10Gb Thunderbolt NIC -- I'm not necessarily opposed to that. Whatever will work better and costs less!

 

[mini_man]

Hi. I currently have the same PC with i9 12900K installed. I also had the previous model G5. While not an expert I can try to give some advice.

CPU: Upgrading might be troublesome. From some sources I have seen, to actually upgrade from a 12th Gen CPU to 13th Gen CPU is not necessarily plug-n-play on the HP boxes. One issue might be the motherboard revision which may lead to BIOS hardware errors as it seems the older motherboards does not fully support 13th gen. Upgrading the BIOS doesn't seem to fix these errors according to users.
There are also two different Coolers/Heatsink versions available (65W aluminum & 125W copper). The K CPU version requires the copper version. If you need to buy both a new CPU and cooler the upgrade gets costly quickly. On a more general note, this is a small form PC and thermal issues are a concern for sure. The larger CPU's are more likely to get into thermal throttling issues and a larger CPU most likely will mean the fan is being used much more, even up to all the time depending on your use. I noticed this when upgrading from the G5 to G9 that the G9 fan noise is more obtrusive while the G5 almost run silent with its smaller CPU. It is a trade off for sure, performance vs noise. For the use you mention I am not sure if upgrading the CPU is necessary. The 12500K is a nice little workhorse on its won.

FlexIO: I recommend going for the Thunderbolt FlexIO module. It is really good and gives you more flexibility later on if you need. I have this module and have used it to connect a 10 Gb QNAP QNA-T310G1T adapter, which works flawlessly. I have connected it to a eGPU for some gaming, again which works flawlessly and used is as a regular dataport. The module is always back ordered at shops but they should be able to get it in a few weeks time. HP has stocks obviously for new builds but aftersales also is handled well. Get the exact FlexIO module specified to work with your PC to ensure compatibility. I think the FlexIO as a standard is the same but there are different version of certain modules. I think this can be due to different chipset used and so on, or new functionality supported.

PCIe: I have not used the PCIe for other than the installed Nvidia GPU. If you don't have GPU in the PCIe slots or have any need for it can be removed and the motherboard onboard graphics controller can be used for graphics (you lose some capabilities and so on but for simple Windows use it should be fine). If you require both Thunderbolt and 10 Gb, the latter should be installed in the PCIe slot in my humble opinion (ref above).

Good luck

 

[NickKX]

I don’t know why I typed 12500k. It’s the 65W 12500.

As far as I can tell both the 12th Gen and 13th Gen SKUs use the same motherboard, I checked on HP parts surfer. But maybe I missed something? I was actually thinking of trying a 14th gen CPU in here but maybe at some point in the future, not right now.

I did see the thing about the cooler and heatsink. Really sleazy move by HP to use a cheaper heatsink in a SFF case, regardless of CPU config.

I checked the price and the copper heatsink is just over $100 but not including tax or shipping.

The “65w blower” is most likely the same CFM — perhaps even the exact same fan…however the “125 watt blower” probably has a different pin config so that the mobo knows which one it is. This should be easy to bypass, although the “125 watt blower” part is only $30.

For now I’m going to stick with the 65W 12500. I’ve put this thing in “rack mode” which turns the fan on the highest setting 24/7.

Is there any way to control the fan from Windows?

I also ran into one more problem…HP doesn’t sell a Wifi 7 module, so I thought I would skip that and just buy the new Intel BE200 module on my own.

Big mistake…when you configure this system without a wifi module from the factory, HP only includes the primary rear antenna — and doesn’t include the secondary antenna! Another sleazy bean counter move. Those antenna pieces probably cost them about 25 cents per unit internally.

What this means is that Bluetooth will be so bad that it’s un-useable (devices cut out and disconnect within one -two feet of the computer), and if you want to get 2x2 mimo speeds out of the WiFi adapter; well, you won’t be able to.

I ended up ordering the secondary antenna from their parts catalog…$40 fricken freedom dollars. For a 25 cent antenna. What a fkn racket!

I probably should have just got a third party antenna module on Amazon for $5. Ugh!

 

[NickKX]

Oh, and I forgot to mention.

I did get the thunderbolt module. It was “backordered” -- however after I placed the order from Connection, it shipped within a week.

It was kind of a pain to install, you actually have to remove the CPU heatsink and blower just to install the module.

When I first heard about this “Flex IO” system, it kind of reminded me of Framework and their hot swappable modular IO system…except yeah, it’s nowhere near as well engineered.

Which is surprising, given HP is a tech giant, and Framework are a dinky little company.

Obviously you don’t get hot swap like with framework...as I said you have to power down and take the computer apart and disassemble the whole thing just to swap modules.

Also, there are no less than THREE distinct versions of Flex IO — and absolutely none of them are compatible with each other, lmao. You don’t even get backwards compatibility.

Very confusing, especially considering many HP resellers don’t list the version of the modules that they are selling, and they also don’t have updated compatibility spec sheets!

The Z2 mini G9 is actually not even listed as compatible for the Thunderbolt Flex IO V3 module, however an HP support rep assured me that the reason is because it just hasn’t been updated yet. Strange, given that the Z2 Mini G9 has been out for over a year now...

Now, onto the module itself…HP lists it as “Thunderbolt 3 / USB4” -- however in Windows it clearly says Thunderbolt 4 in the Intel command center app. It looks like the actual chip is a “1134” Maple Ridge chip, which Intel calls JHL8340.

Intel® JHL8340 Thunderbolt™ 4 Controller Product Specifications

Intel® JHL8340 Thunderbolt™ 4 Controller quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

Intel also lists it as Thunderbolt 4, which again is confusing...

Anyway — I can’t get ANY thunderbolt 1 devices working with this, despite the fact that Intel tech support claims they should work, they’re on Intel’s certification list for Windows specifically, and they all work fine with various Intel and Apple silicon Macs.

And to be clear when I say “they don’t work” I am not talking about driver issues. I mean they don’t even show up in device manager. It’s as if the cable is not even plugged in.

Thunderbolt 2&3 devices work sometimes, but even when they are working, nothing at all shows up in the Intel thunderbolt command center app.

As far as I can tell, there is also no way to get any kind of information as to what link speed the devices are running at. Nothing like MacOS which basically tells you everything and more in system report.

The thunderbolt chip also completely disables itself whenever it wants to (it’s some kind of power saving mode because it thinks it’s not being used), and even thunderbolt 2/3 devices don’t necessarily work as they should in regards to hot plug.

In order for it to work reliably, I have to connect all thunderbolt devices before I even turn the computer on and then boot up with them powered on already.

This has been a real eye opening experience…as someone who has used thunderbolt on Macs for 10+ years, I’ve never experienced anything like this. Intel should be downright embarrassed. Especially considering these are all (supposedly) "Intel Certified" thunderbolt devices. Crazy how they all work fine with uncertified Apple "USB4" hosts.

I even loaded up Ubuntu in the hopes that I could get some kind of logs / visibility into what is exactly going on with the thunderbolt chip, but nope. It’s a god damned black box. There’s no logs whatsoever. No output in Windows in the event viewer under system, and nothing when using boltctl -monitor under Linux either. Basically it either works or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t work, then F you guy.

TL;dr — I am an idiot for going with a PC for this project.

Had I known about all these problems in advance I would have just bought another Mac Mini with a built in 10Gb NIC, and called it a day, and used that as a NAS head / server, and dealt with using a crappy OS like MacOS as a server.

This is my first time using a PC in ~10 years, and as much as I dislike Apple for doing the things they do, this is just pitiful.

The only upside here is that I only paid around $500 for this computer, and it's still under warranty until December 23, 2025.
It came with a T400 which I'm probably going to sell (although it appears that they aren't worth that much)...

Another thought is that I could potentially return or sell the Thunderbolt Flex IO module and replace it with the 10Gb E module, and then use the PCIe slot for a thunderbolt host adapter, hoping that it won't have any of the same problems that the Thunderbolt Flex IO module has -- although that's probably not going to work out any better. It seems thunderbolt on PC is just a disaster.

Those 10Gb E Flex IO modules are also almost $150 at B&H, and since the PCIe slot is half height, I'll have to try to find a low profile / half height thunderbolt host adapter.

Sorry for the novel here but I'm hoping that if anyone else is thinking about buying this for similar purposes they will find this thread and it will save them the migraine!

 

[cromo]

CPU: Upgrading might be troublesome. From some sources I have seen, to actually upgrade from a 12th Gen CPU to 13th Gen CPU is not necessarily plug-n-play on the HP boxes. One issue might be the motherboard revision which may lead to BIOS hardware errors as it seems the older motherboards does not fully support 13th gen. Upgrading the BIOS doesn't seem to fix these errors according to users.

Do you happen to have source for that? I just tried to upgrade from 12th to 13th and the system turns off immediately. I have a Z2 G9 tower and the early revision board, wondering if I am affected by those issues you mention.

 

[Trappenbild]

I was disappointed with the flex IO.
I have the thunderbolt one, and it sits in the chassis about 1mm too deep, it almost looks like it doesnt fit properly! Rubbish design.