Help with new build

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KJaneway

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So here is my plan: I want a new NAS (with media streaming abilities)

As I was able to shoot some cheap HDDs, I want to built a new NAS.

Here is my actual System:

Build’s Name: UBNAS
Operating System/ Storage Platform: Ubuntu Server, mdadm Raid 5
CPU: Intel i5 2390T
Motherboard: ASUS P8H77-I
Chassis: Lian Li PC-Q25
Drives: 3x WD Western Digital Se 4TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD4000F9YZ)
RAM: 16 GB DDR3 NON-ECC
Add-in Cards: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter (to have an Intel Nic)
Power Supply: not exactly sure, but some Gold 350-400W PSU
Other Bits: None

Usage Profile: Sambaserver for media files, music and document backup. Minidlna server for streaming media, downloadserver (jdownloader headless)

Planned Build…
Everything should be built around my new drives: 8x HGST Ultrastar 7K6000 512e 6TB, SAS 12Gb/s (HUS726060AL5210/0F22791)


NEW Build’s Name: DEBNAS
Operating System/ Storage Platform: Debian Server, ZFS or Snapraid (not yet exactly sure)
CPU: See below
Motherboard: See below
Chassis: Silverstone DS830 or maybe Lian Li Q35 (Have to see if it's possible to mod some of those to µATX)
Drives: 8x 8x HGST Ultrastar 7K6000 512e 6TB, SAS 12Gb/s
RAM: 16 to 64 GB DDR4 ECC (depending on the decision pro or con ZFS)
Add-in Cards: Dell H200 SAS HBA
Power Supply: Depends on the case.
Other Bits: None

Usage Profile: Sambaserver for media files, music and document backup. Minidlna server for streaming media, downloadserver (jdownloader headless). So the same as above. Maybe at some day I want to use also Filebot to automate media library organization. Teamspeakserver (8 concurrent clients at a max). It should be possible to encrypt all that data with no drawbacks in Read/Write Performance

So here are the MOBO CPU Combos:

X10SDV-TLN2F (550 EUR)
Pro: XEON Power, 10GBase, miniITX
Cons: No dedicated 1Gbit NIC
Questions: Is it possible to just use the 10GBase connector with a CAT 5 cable and a GBit Switch?

X10SDV-TLN4F (1100EUR)
I think this is pure Horsepower.
Pros: 10GBase, dedicated 1Gbase, Enough power when I want to play with Virtualization, miniITX, nearly as cheap as the AtomC2750 Board
Cons: expensive
Questions: Is 500 Bucks worth the CPU upgrade?

Supermicro A1SAi-2750F (440EUR)
pro: cheap, miniITX,
con: No 10Gbase, No SAS Connectors, so no possibility to add a SAS Controller and 10GBit networking abilities.
Question: Is it sufficient to run my system with no bottlenecks?


ASRock Rack EPC612D4I + Intel Xeon E5-2603 v3 (300+ 250 EUR)
pro: 2 cores more than X10SDV-TLN2F
cons: as expensive as the X10SDV-TLN2F, but no 10GBase RAM and no possibility to add both 10Gbit and SAS capabilities.

So that are the useful miniITX configs I can think of (64GB max RAM at a minimum)

Other Options include using µATX XEON Boards in modded miniITX Cases.

Just tow tempting possibilities:

Gigabyte GA-X150M-PRO ECC + Intel Pentium G4400 (under 200 EUR in sum)
Pro: Cheapest solution, good expansion abilities, although those 2 PCI Slots seem somehow outdated. CPU upgradeable to XEON E3.
Con: Cannot install 128GB RAM

ASRock Rack EPC612D4U Intel Xeon E5-2603 v3 (300+ 250 EUR)
Pro: Good expansion abilities
Cons: XEON-D1520 goes for the same price.


At the moment I think I will choose between the 200€ Gigabyte GA-X150M-PRO ECC + Intel Pentium G4400 and the 500€ X10SDV-TLN2F solution.

What would you choose? and Why? Any other Suggestions?
 
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pricklypunter

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A couple of things that come to mind. 10Gbps networking is fine if you have large files floating between servers, but is pretty much overkill for desktop use. Quite apart from that, you would also need the infrastructure to support it end to end and that gets expensive real quick.
Everything you are wanting to do could probably be achieved with careful planning on a lowly i7 or a Xeon E3 chip. If you go the ZFS route, you will need ECC support if you value your data. Is there a reason why you need it in such a small form factor? I think you are limiting your options going forward in terms of expansion not to mention mainboard features by going the sff route.

Lastly, where did you find a deal on 6TB HGST drives??? :D
 
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KJaneway

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the reason for the small form factor is, that i want to put that server on my cupboard. But there a small server is more aesthetic than a big tower.
I could also try a 19 inch rack with a nice, DIY wood enclosure. A Silent system is important for me and I am afraid that many 19 inch server Racks are way to noisy.

But any suggestions not using SFF are also appreciated.

HGST: Not the best deal: But 350 EUR each is a nice price, compared to the SATA drives (450 each)
 
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pricklypunter

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I am in the middle of a 19" rack build myself just now. I have made a couple of mods to my chassis because of noise levels, and now it's quiet, in fact, it's really quiet considering it has 8 x 7K2 rpm drives running in it. It sounds much more like a really quiet desktop pc now. Easily the loudest thing I have, sitting here beside me right now, is my switch. If the server is going to be in a cupboard, a full depth 19" chassis is probably going to be a squeeze, length wise, but there are a number of enclosures/ chassis out there that are not only half depth, but also 3 and 4U, which allows you to use larger cooling fans. The larger the fan, the slower it has to turn, the quieter it becomes. Obviously within reason, but good quality fans and a little thought and planning go a long way. Then there's the fact that you would then be able to have hot swap options, if you wanted, making physical access to your drives a whole lot nicer once it's in the cupboard. The Lian case is really nice, and if it were on the end of your desk like a trinket where everyone was going to be looking at it, great, but my main concern would be heat, especially with those SAS spindles. They run pretty warm on their own, without anything else like NIC's and HBA's etc being added. The small space in the enclosure and the cupboard setting are only going to demand more cooling. The small form factor is nice if it meets your needs now and in the future, that is until you want to expand in some way, and being honest, once you have that oomph in the box, at some point you will want to use it fully. Then it begins to get messy and expensive. I have seen numerous times, complete rigs being torn down because the mainboard just didn't have the slots or features which meant new enclosures/ power supplies etc etc.

I suppose if I was to say one thing here, it would be to build it with as near to enterprise level equipment as you can afford. It's not a gaming rig or a sunday afternoon desktop. It doesn't have to look pretty or win any races for speed. It's sole purpose here is to serve you up your content while keeping it safe and looking after a few pals over teamspeak. But you will want headroom there for when you decide that you want to do something that puts heavy demands on it.

I'm not wanting to put you off here, I think your plan is reasonable, and doable, I'm just playing devil's advocate and hopefully giving you some extra ideas :D

Incidentally, Whitey is selling off some of his SM E3 boards and chips in the "for sale/ trade" forum, you might want to have a look at those. The only limiting factor really would be the max ram of the E3 being 32GB, it's not the 64GB like you mentioned you would like, but unless you are planning on flogging it to death with VM's, that's really all you will need for your list of goals. It is ECC though, plus, those boards have dedicated IPMI as a bonus. You mentioned it was headless, so IPMI would come in real handy for you. I'm sure a deal could be struck :)
 
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KJaneway

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I think the Haswell-E3 Xeons limit at 64 GB. But thats only details. As the prices for Serverboards are similar, wether taking E3 or E5 Boards, i can also go for a E5 board. The cheapest E5 is also only 200 EUR.
Can you suggest some nice 3 or 4 U 19" cases which have only half depth and a decent amount of hotswap bays? With a bit modding, 120mm fans should be applicable.
By the way, I was a bit unclear: My server should NOT go in the cupboard but on top of the cupboard. So there shouldn't be any heat issues.

One Addition: I don't think that 10GBE is just for interserver transfer usefull. It matters also for desktop use, or better: I think it starts mattering for within the next years. So 10GBE is just future-proof although I won't use it yet, because the other needed hardware is way to expensive.

EDIT: What do you think of buying a normal ATX Case with 6 or more 5,25" Bays and fill them with Supermicro or Chenbro Hotswap bays for 3,5" HDDs? Should be also good. What do you think?
 
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pricklypunter

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Have a look at some of the Norco/ Rosewill chassis, or if you are game for a full size server, a good bare Chenbro or Supermicro one. They are purpose built for hotswap and usually come with the proper drive caddies and cooling etc. If that's the route you were planning to go down. Anything else, although workable, the 5x3 type adapters do an ok job, really is an after thought that might mean spending more money and time than you need to in order to get what you require. All of these chassis you can get second hand in really good condition for very little money, if you you keep your eyes open, and are an order of magnitude step up from standard cases in terms of build quality and layout :)
 
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KJaneway

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I can't help it. Those racks are so.... HUGE! I don't have much of space. Thats why I always went the SFF way. µATX could be a compromise. But there are no shining Cases. I could imagine paying 400 Bucks on a premium caselabs case as long as it is small. But a Rackserver which is over 60 cm long and has about 130mm in height if I choose one with 120mm Fans. Thats the Size of a Big Tower. Have a Lian LI PC 70 lying around. Could use this too. But to make it simple: Its also to big.
You have to take the WAF also into account. WAF of a nice SFF case is high. WAF of a rackserver is negative. If we would have a cellar, I would go for the Rackserver. But I have to live beside it. And not just me. The same is true for Tower Servers like the Chenbro SR11266M2-C8 SAS 8x which I could get new for 270€

Right at the moment I am looking for a possibility to fit in 8 6TB HDDs and connect them to an LSI SAS Controller. 64 GB would be nice for ZFS. Although I am not exactly sure how much performance suffers if I have a 48TB raidz2 with only 32 GB of RAM. Maybe its sufficient. In german forum they pray 1GB RAM per TB HDD capacity.
HotSwap Bays: NICE But also not a must have. If maintenance has to be done, I could power down the server with no drawbacks.
The 10GBit Option is nice but also not a must have. Who knows when it will become important in the private field?

Silverstone DS380 looks very sexy. Yeah it has only fragile plastic HotSwap Cases, but they won't be used often.
Fractal Design Note 840 is also very nice. Offers µATX Support for much better Boards. But
Or my old Lian LI Q25? Just 5 Hotswapbays (which must be removed in that case, for they are SATA only) and 2 other HDD Mountpoints on the bottom of the case. The last Drive would go into the 5,25" Bay. WAF maximized, because no change is recocnizable.

In Case of µATX:
ASRock Rack EPC612D4U + Intel Xeon E5-2603 v3 (300+ 250 + 300 EUR for RAM)
Pro: Good expansion abilities (ALSO CPU UPGRADEABLE)
Or, one step smaller some Skylake S1151 SM Board with a G4400 or a small E3.
In Both Cases: 3 PCI-E Slots. Thats more than I will need within the next 5 Years in my homeserver.
If 32 GB is enough (maybe with ZFS, certainly without ZFS) Than maybe a nice Sandy Bridge µATX Board or that amazing ASROCK Extended ITX Board which comes along with LSI SAS Controller already.
 
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pricklypunter

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Decisions...decisions...

I agree with you, WAF needs to be taken account of. I treat it as just another detail on the requirements sheet now ;)
 
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KJaneway

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this special EBAY Offer is with an SATA Backplane. The same seller also sells the SAS Version for twice the price.
 
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pricklypunter

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See if you can find a deal on a SAS backplane for it? How much do Chenbro themselves want for one? If you can find a deal, it might be worth considering...
 
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pricklypunter

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Chenbro do make nice enclosures, I'm using an RM23212 in my build, but that particular one you listed has the expander type backplane in it. I would rather have one with the standard 3 x 4 port backplanes, I don't like having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. The 3 expansion slots on the IT2U-2312 are on edge for full depth cards, so you would need a riser for them I think which limits your options a bit. That leaves the IT2U-2412, which would make a very nice build, but I'm not sure what backplanes are fitted. They are all nice :)
 
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pricklypunter

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That Dell would not be my first choice. I think, but don't quote me, it only has a 3Gbps backplane and doesn't support IOMMU, so you would at the least need to gut it and just use the chassis as a starting point. I think your money could go further with some of the other options you have already looked at. I like the InterTech 2U-2412, it's well laid out, would take just about any mainboard you find a deal on, has plenty of expansion slots and doesn't look bad either athestically, however, you would need to find out what backplane(s) are fitted to make sure it fits your requirements :)
 
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KJaneway

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I send an inquiry to the seller. He couldn't give me any technical details on the machines. I think I'll go the Chenbro or Intertech way if not the SFF way.
How do I recognize wether a case has an expander type backplane or a standard type 3x4 backplane?

What would you say: ASRock Rack EPC612D4U + Xeon E5-2603 v3 for 400 bucks: Good Deal or bad deal? It's 20% off
 
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pricklypunter

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The ASRock Rack boards are nice, and with a CPU for $400 is not a bad deal for the money. There are soo many options and possibilities available to achieve what you want, but we could literally spend the rest of our lives investigating all of them. I guess you really need to sit down and decide for yourself whether you are going to go the SFF route or not, then focus in on what you will need to build it :)
 
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