Engenius multi AP setup/roaming

[custom90gt]

I've been toying with moving from a single Ruckus R650 which I've been happy with since I resolved my slow speeds to multiple Engenius EWS377APs for better coverage outside of the home (we are building a little play area for our daughter / lounge area for the adults). I'm not super impressed with the roaming capabilities of the EWS377APs as all of my wireless devices seem to pick one of the APs and just sticks to it, regardless of where you are in the house.

The setup:
Equipment: two EWS377AP access points set up on total opposite sides of the house.
SSID: same SSID on both AP (separate SSID for 2.4ghz and 5.0ghz as well as one IODT that I don't have virtualized yet).
Channelization: AP1 on 1 for 2.4ghz and 40 for 5ghz. AP2 on 8 for 2.4ghz and 149 for 5ghz
Misc: WPA2 with same passphrase, fast roaming turned on for all SSIDs.

I was hoping that Engenius would be able to support smart roaming (802.11v) and "move clients" over automatically but that doesn't seem to be the case. I realize doing this without a central controller or master is probably troublesome. Would adding their SkyKey provide any advantages there? Or does that just allow cloud based configuration? I installed ezMaster to see if it would offer anything extra and it just shows the firmware as "incompatible" despite being on the latest firmware.

It's funny, as I type this, I am connected to the furthest AP despite being almost directly above the nearest AP and getting terrible network speeds. I realize I could turn down the power so that the signal is so weak that it forces a handoff, but then the signal in my yard sucks.

Thanks for reading all of that, and for any help.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

EWS377AP supports Fast Roaming (802.11k & 802.11r). I suspect you have something misconfigured and/or some of your clients do not support it.

I have two EWS377APv3 APs, no SkyKey, AP1 (Ch 11 20 Mhz, Ch 149 80 Mhz) , AP2 (Ch 1 20 Mhz, Ch 36 80 Mhz), same SSID for both APs and bands, same passphrase, band steering enabled (-75 dBm). Clients seamlessly switch between bands and APs as I roam throughout the house, or even reboot one AP during a firmware upgrade.

Recommendations
1. Make sure you have the latest firmware.

Wi-Fi 6 4x4 Managed Indoor Wireless Access Point

EnGenius EWS377AP WiFi 6 Access Point: 4x4 Managed Indoor Wireless features 802.11ax technology, which deepens and extends the capabilities of Wi-Fi.

www.engeniustech.com

2. Stick with 20Mhz on 2.4 Ghz and channels 1,6,11
3. Avoid DFS channels on 5 Ghz
4. Consider enabling WPA2/3 mixed
5. Make sure both APs are on the same same sub-net so they can communicate with each other.
Confirm via: Management -> Tools -> Device Discovery -> Scan
6. Use the same SSID for both APs and bands, enable band steering, and keep each AP on a separate non-overlapping fixed channels


7. Do not locate APs in same vertical or horizontal plane (i.e. on ceiling/wall directly above one another), make sure the two AP's are separated far enough apart, and set the power to the following per Engenius indoor AP recommendations.

8. Consider internal antenna locations when orientating the APs

https://fccid.io/A8J-EWS377APV3/Internal-Photos/Internal-photos-5028775.pdf

9. If indoor APs do not provide adequate outdoor coverage, consider supplementing with an outdoor AP

Wireless 2x2 Managed Outdoor WiFi 6 Access Point/Bridge

Outdoor WiFi 6 Access Point: EWS850AP features the best in Wi-Fi 6 technology guaranteed to handle high capacity environments.

www.engeniustech.com

 

[custom90gt]

Thanks for the response. Sadly fast roaming has always had those issues, it stays on the AP until the signal reaches a certain level which is really a poor design. I know Ruckus and others will do smart roaming, but that typically requires a "master" or controller. I don't think it's the devices themselves (iphone 10, samsung S22 ultra, samsung S21, and a variety of laptops with Intel AX cards).

I don't have band steering on because I typically liked to connect things to a specific band myself, but I will try this to see if it helps. My guess is that it will probably help given the ability to pick the RSSI.

I am already on 20mhz and 80mhz. No DFS channels. I will try WPA2/3 mixed as well.

Thanks for the hint on the device discovery, that shows the other AP.

Will let you know if band steering or WPA2/3 mixed fixes anything since it seems the rest of the config that I currently have setup is fine.

 

[custom90gt]

Well band steering and WPA3 seem to be mildly helpful as handoffs take less time, but it will remain connected to a much weaker signal longer than I would like.

Interestingly, Engenius does not support fast roaming on WPA3, only WPA2. However having WPA3 appears to help the device switch to the closest AP more appropriately.

I emailed Engenius to see if there are any other benefits to SkyKey. At this point I'm not sure if I'll keep the multiple access point setup or not. I don't really have the desire to do outdoor access points at this time. I'll probably play with it another week and decide.

Thanks for the help, any other tips are still appreciated.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Did you adjust the transmit power and band steering threshold?

 

[custom90gt]

Did you adjust the transmit power and band steering threshold?

I have the transmit power set to a point where I still get wireless outside where I want it, I won't be going any lower than that. I will try playing with the RSSI value for steering threshold and see if that help. It's odd you have to use band steering between 2.4/5ghz in order to get it to have quicker handoffs between APs.

I did contact Engenius to get more info on the SkyKey to see if it would help with roaming, but the person that's responding doesn't seem to understand any of my questions. I also asked if they would support fast roaming with WPA3, but no response to that either.

 

[custom90gt]

Well I'm not super impressed with the dual AP setup. Handoffs are slow if they even happen at all (currently on the furthest AP and on 2.4ghz because the signal is too weak for 5ghz for whatever reason) and band steering on Engenius is cumbersome regardless of RSSI settings. I've tried different RSSI settings and it wants to bounce clients between 2.4 and 5ghz despite being well within or outside of the settings. My wife's laptop right now bounces between the two (taking many seconds to do so) which kicks her off of her work VPN. It's a fine AP for cheap, but not near the level of Ruckus.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

sorry to hear of your troubles. I personally have not had any issues with a dual AP set up.

are you using the same SSID for both bands? previously you indicated you were not.

Have you checked the RSSI levels for the various clients on the connections page?

 

[custom90gt]

I did switch to a single SSID for both bands to enable band steering. I've been messing with settings for the past hour while my wife grows steadily more upset with our internet, lol.

On edit. I have checked the RSSI for the connections. The weird thing is if I specify say an RSSI of -70 to run on 5ghz and a client is at -74dBm, it will move it over to the 2.4ghz band, but then it retries the 5ghz band less than a minute later only to be moved back to 2.4. I basically had to set it to -90dBm to stop moving clients between the two bands without end.

 

[custom90gt]

Well I am returning the second Engenius AP since I couldn't get it to play nice so to speak. Just for fun I did a little comparison between my R650 and the EWS377AP. I set the channel manually on the AP and power level to max. It looks like the R650 does much better on the 5Ghz band, but maybe a little worse on the 2.4.

From the new seating area I wasn't able to get any 5Ghz wireless on the EWS377AP, but the R650 provided a pretty pleasurable response. Not entirely sure why 2.4Ghz doesn't seem to work very well outside as nothing appears to be on that channel from the seating area.


For clarification purposes, the speeds are in Mbps and are the average of 3 runs on speedtest.net. The place that I tested it from is the initial name and then the band is listed after. I ran each test with my Lenovo Thinkbook 16P G2 (Killer AX1650 card) and my Samsung S22 Ultra.

If Ruckus equipment returns to a reasonable price in the near future I may pick up another used R650 and see how well the Ruckus handles roaming. I do have a R720 that I could try it with, but I've spent way too much time mucking with this stuff. I'll probably sell the EWS377AP just given that I can actually use the R650 outside...

@ms264556, thought you may like the results of this.