Dell PowerEdge C6100 vs HP Proliant DL1000

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mason736

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Mar 17, 2013
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With the flood of both of these servers on the market, I was wondering if anyone has done an indepth comparison of the two similar products. I'm looking to replace/add to my existing home built server running a Xeon X3460, supermicro X8-sil-f motherboard, 16GB ram, and 6 WD Black 1TB drives in RAID 5, running WHS 2011.

I have a friend that may be able to get me the HP DL1000 cheaper, as he's a reseller, but of the two, is the HP or Dell preferable over the other? Also, will either box be able to run Windows Server 2012 Standard and Windows Server 2012 Essestials without a problem?

Thanks!
 

dba

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Feb 20, 2012
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San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
With the flood of both of these servers on the market, I was wondering if anyone has done an indepth comparison of the two similar products. I'm looking to replace/add to my existing home built server running a Xeon X3460, supermicro X8-sil-f motherboard, 16GB ram, and 6 WD Black 1TB drives in RAID 5, running WHS 2011.

I have a friend that may be able to get me the HP DL1000 cheaper, as he's a reseller, but of the two, is the HP or Dell preferable over the other? Also, will either box be able to run Windows Server 2012 Standard and Windows Server 2012 Essestials without a problem?

Thanks!
I'm an HP fan, but the DL1000 is not my favorite. The HP gives you four more DIMM slots per node than the Dell c6100, which is a good thing, but to get them you must give up the PCIe mezzanine slot, the management NIC connection, and four hard drive slots (or eight if you are looking at using 2.5" drives). You must also accept the fact that there are dramatically fewer DL1000 parts available on eBay than c6100 parts. Lastly, there is the fact that you can get a huge amount of community support for the c6100 while the DL1000s community is considerably smaller - or at least much quieter.

To answer your second question, the c6100 runs Windows Server 2012 like a charm, and I would assume that the HP will do the same.
 
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mason736

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Mar 17, 2013
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That sounds good...and considering the price of the c6100s, not a bad deal. dba, what do you think about this option as well. My same friend, as I posted a while back, will sell me an HP P4300 g2 MDL with 8 1TB HDDs in it, and 4GB of RAM. Do you think having both, the C6100 and the HP p4300 (serving as a storage server via iSCSI) would be overkill?
 

dba

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Feb 20, 2012
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That sounds good...and considering the price of the c6100s, not a bad deal. dba, what do you think about this option as well. My same friend, as I posted a while back, will sell me an HP P4300 g2 MDL with 8 1TB HDDs in it, and 4GB of RAM. Do you think having both, the C6100 and the HP p4300 (serving as a storage server via iSCSI) would be overkill?
I have something similar: A Dell c6100 as my VM server and an HP DL180 G6, which, as mrkrad will tell you, is remarkably similar to the p4300, as my storage server. It is indeed overkill, but it's nice to have.
 

mrkrad

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Oct 13, 2012
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i think you would be very happy with a p4300 g2

very few servers can hold a quadro 6000, raid card, and 10gbe nic at once with 12 drives ;)

you deal hunters should be looking at the C3000 hp blade with bl460's those are the cheapest 12 core you can get. or a C7000. this is where hp rules the roost (blade system)
 
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mason736

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Mar 17, 2013
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Couple questions (I'm new at this stuff, so bear with me)

1. In my rack at home I have a Cisco sg200-26 switch I bought specifically to handle NIC teaming. Would you utilize both NICs on the p4300 connected directly to the switch. I don't believe the sg200 handles 10gbe. Also, does the p4300 run a server O/S? How would I serve up the array to be available to the servers in the 6100.

2. Regarding the c6100, I plan on running Windows Server 2012 Essentials on one node, to handle cpu backups and serve as the DC. Another node would be utilized another for Windows Server 2012 Standard with Hyper-V running a number of VM for various testing and applications. Do you see any issues with this setup?
 

33_viper_33

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Aug 3, 2013
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2. Regarding the c6100, I plan on running Windows Server 2012 Essentials on one node, to handle cpu backups and serve as the DC. Another node would be utilized another for Windows Server 2012 Standard with Hyper-V running a number of VM for various testing and applications. Do you see any issues with this setup?
I haven’t tried under Server 2012 Essentials, however 2011 Essentials would not act as a DC to a standard or higher version of windows server. You may want to test this configuration. If you are looking for just Hyper-V, I suggest VMware. It’s much more powerful and less resource intensive.

You may want to consider running your Windows Server 2012 in a VM configuration. There are several advantages to this setup such as snapshot and creating appliances for backup purposes. Windows server backup is a complete fail IMO, especially when working with essentials. If you ever have to restore, you must have a disk equal to or greater in size. I tried to migrate server to run of an SSD using the server backup and ran into all kinds of problems... With virtual appliance, simply import!
 

mason736

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I haven’t tried under Server 2012 Essentials, however 2011 Essentials would not act as a DC to a standard or higher version of windows server. You may want to test this configuration.
While reading through some of the material on Technet, I found a few articles stating that WS2012E must be installed at the root of the domain, and act as the DC to operate properly. WS2012E R2 adds some new features however, where you can install the Essentials role into WS2012 R2 standard, utilizing the feature set of the software. I guess in theory, that could work and I could run a DC as a separate VM.

I'm new to the virtualization world, not having much experience with it in the past. I was leaning towards Hyper-V simply b/c I have an MSDN account, so the cost isn't an issue for Windows Server vs going with VMWare. I am open to suggestions though!
 

33_viper_33

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This is only my two cents, but here it goes.
Unfortunately, it’s been about a nearly two years since I've experimented with multiple windows servers interacting with one another. I only have the need for 1 Windows server. I experimented with 2012 bata about a year ago and finally just switched to it on a permanent bases about a month ago. I'm still very new to server 2012. I played with hyper V extensively under 2008 R2. While it is very simple to use, I am now disappointed in the product after the discovery and understanding of VM ware. Under server 2011E, I was using vmware server for virtualization since it did not contain hyper v which turned me on to vmware in the first place. VM ware server works well but always felt piecemealed to me. It lacked the refined nature of Hyper-V. I use shy away from ESXi since I didn't have a processor that supported VT-d. That is no longer an issue for me and after playing extensively with ESXI, I'm a fan!

ESXI is different from the standpoint that it requires software installed on a client to connect to. It is very different from windows, so expect a bit of a learning curve. It is Linux at its base. Therefore, if you want to make tweaks like getting ESXI to shut down from the command of a UPS or other more complex tasks, expect to do some SSH and command line. I definitely used a few how to articles to get started. After a couple weeks with it, I started to see it as highly refined, extremely powerful and highly adaptive for my needs. I've been running ESXI for 8 months now and can no longer see a close second in terms of capability.

My next wish is to find a cloud solution. I was playing with Xen but found it clunky compared to ESXi. My intent with a cloud is to use very light weight, low power server such as an E3-1200v3 for an always on router and server all in one solution but still have the capability to power up other nodes to give me the horse power and RAM when I need it. I also want the light weight server to have a small storage pool that gets backed up by the larger server and again to a off sight server. The light weight server will host the client PC's iSCSI boot drives to consolidate SSDs into one extremely fast array and reduce number of drives required. Ideally, Server 2012 will move over to the large server when its booted up and back to the low power server during times of low usage.

The point I'm attempting to relay to you is, if you want low power, look to removing as many devices as possible. Today’s hardware is significantly under utilized by today’s software. Therefore, try to consolidate as many physical PCs into one as practical. This isn't always possible and without understanding your needs and intent, hard to make recommendations. However, if you look to big business, they are vitalizing for the same reasons. Hardware is plenty fast for 90% of the functions any one server is going to accomplish. You can save money on hardware and power by vitalizing.

Your C6100 is extremely powerful, even with the relatively slow L5520s. But there are two of them which give it many threads to accomplish multiple tasks across multiple virtual machines. If you do have a task that requires higher clock speeds, maybe an upgrade to an L5539 or better is the right move for you. If you are a home user and not doing anything extreme, I wouldn't waste money on multiple separate servers which multiply the amount of power required.

While I'm still in the experimental stage, I'm finding that the C6100 with L5520s is all the horse power I require to serve my house, lab, and file backups for a couple businesses all at 10Gb/s speeds. I am not doing any databases which would likely change this assessment to a degree. I would argue that this is the case for most of us home users. My only complaint with the 6100 is the lack of expansion slots for my custom solution. It makes for a wonderful lab, just with the requirement of more devices. If you have the need for speed and constant experimentation with the funds to buy more servers, well, who am I to judge (guilty with the 6100...). I prefer to spend my money on 10GB cards (possibly infiniband in the near future), fast switches, network KVMs, UPS with network card that shuts down my network after backup is complete for the night to save power, the constant problem of not enough HDD space, etc. All my experimentation is leading up to building one expensive server that reduces as many devices as possible across my network and does so efficiently.

For an always on PC, the 6100 is not ideal to me. It is power hungry, especially with multiple nodes up! But for a lab, you can't beat it.

I again ask, what is this going to be utilized for?
 
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mason736

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Mar 17, 2013
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Its going to replace my custom built server running a Xeon X3460, supermicro X8-sil-f motherboard, 16GB ram, and 6 WD Black 1TB drives in RAID 5, running WHS 2011. As you mentioned, WHS2011 does not support Hyper-V either, same as WS2011E, so I wanted to move to something a bit more powerful to handle some additional VMs that I want to run for testing (Windows 7, linux vm) as well as have a dedicated node to WS2012E R2 for PC backups and to serve up my media server (Mezzmo) and transcoding to WDTV-Live devices throughout the house.
 

mason736

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Mar 17, 2013
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mrkrad,

Can you replace the hdd in the p4300 mdl with SATA drives, or do you need to use SAS drives? I was looking at picking up 8 WD RE4 SATA drives for when I acquire the p4300
 

mrkrad

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Oct 13, 2012
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oh yeah I have 8 15K SAS 450gb in each but I did do one with 8 2TB Hitachi (hp branded from a P2000G3).

I also upgrade to P420/1gb FBWC to get HP SmartCache option so you can accelerate your storage with ssd.

Why don't you just get RE4 sas drives? I would seriously beg anyone that has the option to pay 10% more and get a SAS version to do so. They are far more resilient with larger ECC, 2 bit IOECC and 1 BIT IOEDC.

I have personally witnessed SATA drives pushing corrupt data through a raid controller and it was horrifying!

The P4300 is special in that it is direct (no sas expander). I would say with 8 15K SAS raid-10 and P420/1gb FBWC I get the same speed as 4 840 Pro in raid-10 but with more latency. That is a very fast set of hard drives!

So yeah no problemo. It just has a P410/512 BBWC so make sure you think about battery replacement (its easy you can wire up two batteries to the old battery casing for cheap!).

biggest problem I had was the default stripe was 1.2MEG across 8 drives! insane! Have to enable Drive WRite caching with sata as well.