CWWK/Topton/... Nxxx quad NIC router

[SanFable]

Buw how small? There is not much clearance. 10-15mm I would say.

No idea how is my ram doing, lm-sensors doesn't output it (I am open to other ways to check).

My NVME is normally around 50. Now it is 60 because I did a stress test and I guess it will take a while to go back down since the case is closed.

I will put a heatsink as mentioned and re-paste.

I also saw a 3d printed stand for a similar model (easy to modify to fit our needs). I can put the machine on top of the stand and there is enough space for a 25mm fan on the bottom. Will look cool and less temperature. We will see. I will keep you all updated.

Fans sized 25/30/40mm are 10mm thick. I was thinking about 30 or 40mm, but I will see how temps I will have without fan.

 

[mavrrick]

I might want to put a fan on this. I see the solution of putting a 80mm on the bottom

Did your device not come with a fan. The V1 version I got was provided with one and it is probably 80mm and probably a 10mm fan. It can be kind of loud which is the downside to any fan below 120mm. Initially i tried to put it internal and what i found was the little extension board to convert the wifi m.2 slot to a NVME 3x1 slot would it the fan blades. I ended up pulling it out of the case. If you don't use that though it would probably be fine

You can get a USB Powered 140mm fan from Amazon that the entire unit can sit on and be silent and will cool the entire thing very well. I have it blowing up into the bottom of the unit to cool 4 nvme drives, one of which is under the 4xNVME Expansion board. works really well for that.

 

[Foxandxss]

Did your device not come with a fan. The V1 version I got was provided with one and it is probably 80mm and probably a 10mm fan. It can be kind of loud which is the downside to any fan below 120mm. Initially i tried to put it internal and what i found was the little extension board to convert the wifi m.2 slot to a NVME 3x1 slot would it the fan blades. I ended up pulling it out of the case. If you don't use that though it would probably be fine

You can get a USB Powered 140mm fan from Amazon that the entire unit can sit on and be silent and will cool the entire thing very well. I have it blowing up into the bottom of the unit to cool 4 nvme drives, one of which is under the 4xNVME Expansion board. works really well for that.

Nah, mine doesn't come with one. To sit the machine on a fan I need some space below the fan I guess o it can suck up the air. The good thing about the 80mm is that it can be screwed on the backplate and then put a stand so the fan is not directly in the table.

AFAIK the internal connector (with the adapter) is 12V, right? I might check later when I install the heatsink

 

[mavrrick]

To sit the machine on a fan I need some space below the fan I guess o it can suck up the air.

The fan i linked has little rubber feet on both sides of all 4 corners of it. So it creates a little bit of gabe above and below it to help it suck in air.

I think the internal connection is 5v actually. The fan that came with mine is 5v. makes it hard to find a replacement. Though my unit is a V1 and not a V2

On another note i thought about putting it the smaller 80x10mm fan on the bottom and getting something to extend the feet. But after a closer look i am worried there might be metal contacting the NVME drives i could see IC's through the screw holes for the 80mm fan. At this point i will stick with the 140mm outside.

 

[Becks0815]

Can anyone confirm this findings frome here: https://www.reddit.com/r/opnsense/comments/19ecrgx ?

" I tried OPNsense on bare metal with I226 Ethernet and the driver just kept dropping packets. I switched to Linux using a KVM VM and now it's rock solid. It appears the Linux driver is much better than the BSD driver. "

" Running Proxmox might actually get you better performance. The Linux drivers for that NIC may be better in Linux compared to FreeBSD. You can also enable multiqueue with Linux bridges and that should help a decent amount with performance.
[...]

Yeah try Linux bridges instead. 9 times out of 10 pcie passthrough is faster, but there can be edge cases where bridges win cause Linux has better support for the NIC. This might be one of those times.
I personally use Linux bridges in my Opnsense VM’s cause the fastest connection I have is a 1.25gb Comcast business line. Linux bridges can easily handle that.
"

What I can confirm is that my NIC drops packets. To test this, just run a command shell e.g. on Windows and run "ping -t <opnsense-ip>" for a while. After 10k packets I had less than 1% drop rate, but still....

 

[Foxandxss]

Hey guys,
just little update:
I have the CWWK N305 4 NIC (V2) with the x4 NVME Board - it also came with the other board that combines the NVME + WiFI key preinstalled.
I put in 2 (certainly overkill) Micron 7450 MAX 480 GB (on the x4 board) and installed Proxmox in a mirror. Also, the Wifi board hosts a Coral TPU.
The CPU, even when I benched it, never really approached 50 Celsius, and idles at about 35 (under 30 with USB fan).
I ran into in issue with the nvmes though, they got pretty hot. 80 degree or more, one even has a high temp counter in smart. So I purchased the lowest nvme coolers I could find on amazon ( M2 SSD Kühlkörper,3 Satz M.2 Wärmeleitpad,Kühler-Set Heatsink,Aluminium Cooler mit Silikon Wärmeleitpad,Halbleitergeräte Kühler,Heatsink 2280 PCIE NVME CPU-Kühlung für 2280 M.2 SSD M2 Kühlkörper : Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör ) [german, sorry, but as a referenz], as well as a 80mm Noctua fan.

I used the onboard fan pins (with the adapter that came in the box), routed it outside the case through one of the WiFi holes (with some jumper cables), mounted the 80mm fan on the bottom, and connected it - works like a charm.
But the most important information here mby: even with these very low profile heatsinks, the bottom panel wont go on again as before (certainly not if you use the heatsink rubberbands)
BUT: There was an extra bag with screws and rubber rings in the cwwk box, which I first had no idea what to do with. Turns out, when you put the rubber rings on the cases screwholes and use the 4 screws, which are longer than the default, you can screw the bottom panel back in place and it perfectly fits with the heatsinks
It's ridiculous that these things turned out, and even that CWWK had put in these small, super useful extras.
Now the NVMEs run 20 degree cooler, and the fan barely spins.

Currently running Homeassistant and OpnSense in Proxmox, plan on adding PiHole, Frigate with the TPU and Plex and/or Unmanic with the iGPU.

Can you tell me if your noctua is 12 or 5v? I might try the 14mm one (92x92) since it might fit inside.

EDIT: I thought it was 10mm. Nah, it won't fit

 

[fta]

What I can confirm is that my NIC drops packets. To test this, just run a command shell e.g. on Windows and run "ping -t <opnsense-ip>" for a while. After 10k packets I had less than 1% drop rate, but still....

I can't confirm the packet drops, but I can confirm the performance hit. I switched to linux after testing showed 3x+ throughput difference.

 

[Becks0815]

I can't confirm the packet drops, but I can confirm the performance hit. I switched to linux after testing showed 3x+ throughput difference.

So using virtual NICs within the Opnsense VM results in a higher throughput? If this is the case, i have to revise my unofficial setup guide here.

 

[Foxandxss]

I can't say anything about packet drops (I might test it) but my network works better now, faster. Moving from my old nas hits the gigabit (before it didn't) and from 2.5 to 2.5 moves at full speed.

 

[Foxandxss]

Can you put what is your nvme temperature and which model?

I am dumb enough to think that better is always better (ha!). I have the n305 with a 990pro (was same price as 980 pro so I said... why not).

My cpu is running at 38-40 and my nvme right now (just opnsense and a idle arch) is at 52. If I run truenas with a external usb and a download (not for production, just learning) it can go up to 56 even when the download is in another castle drive.

My 980 pro in my main computer is at 46 right now, so not a big difference comparing a full blown desktop with water cooling vs the minipc.

So I am discarding, for now, changing my 990 for something else (unless I swap it for the 960 evo in my computer that runs at 34 right now but it is considerably slower).

I am checking the fan situation. Inside perhaps a 10mm will fit or outside a 25mm one. Connected to the 12v 4 pin on the motherboard and I guess I can control it via bios and/or software (correct me if I am wrong).

Or perhaps I should move on and forget about improving the temp.

What do you think ?

 

[fta]

So using virtual NICs within the Opnsense VM results in a higher throughput? If this is the case, i have to revise my unofficial setup guide here.

No, OPNSense/FreeBSD is slow. Here is my testing. I run linux bare metal now.

 

[zeroflow]

I might need to re-read this thread to see what solutions you put.

I did put a 120mm fan on top with 3D printed brackets: https://www.printables.com/de/model/733311-cwwk-n100-router-fan-mount
You could put a filter on top to keep the dust out. But for me, it doesn't collect too much dust over a year, so it's getting cleaned with the standard spring clean and everything is well.

Either connect it externally via USB or use the provided adapter to connect it internally. For this, I've made a replacement bracket that guides the fan wires inside: https://www.printables.com/model/733328-cwwk-n100-io-brackets

Also, I can confirm that the internal fan header is providing 12V.

 

[mavrrick]

So I am discarding, for now, changing my 990 for something else

I have 4 NVME drives in my N305 4x2.5gbps mini pc. I would certainly not worry about getting the most performant drive in these, but focus on good temps. There are many cases were the slots get reduced to PCIe3x1 getting a high performance drive is just a waste. In my rig i have a WD SN770 1TB, a WD SN650E, and 2 Crucial P3Plus 4TB drives. The coolest by far are the Crucial P3Plus.

Disk1 = SN650E : Disk2 = SN770 : Disk 3 = P3Pus 4TB : Disk 4 = P3Plus 4TB under 4*NVME card connected to x1 wifi slot.

I should also point out that I do use a 120mm AC Inifiity USB Powered fan blowing down over the top of the case to cool the CPU and I do think it has a small difference on these drives as well.

Also, I can confirm that the internal fan header is providing 12V.

The unit I got came with a 80x10mm PWM fan and it is a 5v fan. I don't think the internal connector provides 12v. This may be different though if you got a different unit then I did. As someone else suggested it may be better to simply get a USB powered fan and not worry about the internal connector.

 

[Foxandxss]

I have 4 NVME drives in my N305 4x2.5gbps mini pc. I would certainly not worry about getting the most performant drive in these, but focus on good temps. There are many cases were the slots get reduced to PCIe3x1 getting a high performance drive is just a waste. In my rig i have a WD SN770 1TB, a WD SN650E, and 2 Crucial P3Plus 4TB drives. The coolest by far are the Crucial P3Plus.



The unit I got came with a 80x10mm PWM fan and it is a 5v fan. I don't think the internal connector provides 12v. This may be different though if you got a different unit then I did. As someone else suggested it may be better to simply get a USB powered fan and not worry about the internal connector.

I agree with you that a high performance is a waste but was the same price as 980 pro that we could consider high performance as well. What temps are you getting with those 4?

Also weird the 5v in your case. Do you have a CWWK v2 or the previous model? USB would be fine if I can adjust it speed via software.

 

[mavrrick]

but was the same price as 980 pro

See i wasn't even willing to spend the money on a 980 Pro. I got those 4TB Crucial drives for 215 each. I don't think i ever saw the samsung drives for anywhere near that.

Also weird the 5v in your case. Do you have a CWWK v2 or the previous model?

I ordered mine last August which I think makes it a V1. I only have 2 usb ports on the front and back. I don't have a extra 12v fan to try though wish i did. I am considering ordering a V2 one though for a few reasons. Does anyone have a good way to mount a 120/140mm fan to the case? I was kind of looking for a way to create a retainer in the fins so i could just screw down

 

[zeroflow]

Does anyone have a good way to mount a 120/140mm fan to the case? I was kind of looking for a way to create a retainer in the fins so i could just screw down

So far, I've found this one for case variant C: https://www.printables.com/model/732626-cwwk-mini-pc-soft-router-12th-gen-120mm-fan-suppor
I for myself made this one for the pioneer edition: https://www.printables.com/model/733311-cwwk-n100-router-fan-mount

The unit I got came with a 80x10mm PWM fan and it is a 5v fan. I don't think the internal connector provides 12v. This may be different though if you got a different unit then I did. As someone else suggested it may be better to simply get a USB powered fan and not worry about the internal connector.

Mine seems to be based on v2 since it has 2x USB 3.0 on LAN side and 2x3.0 / 4x2.0 on the other side. But the 12V are confirmed, as I measured them myself. But from trying out different configs, a 12V fan run with 5V provides enough air to cool my N100 unit down fine. So just printing a mount and connecting the fan via USB seems to be enough.

 

[denovare]

If anyone is looking for a nice speed-adjustable ubs-to-pwm fan converter, I am very satisfied with this one: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005...t_main.22.305c79d2IxQQxu&gatewayAdapt=glo2nld. Works perfectly with a Noctua 120mm fan I had laying around.

 

[denovare]

Can anyone confirm this findings frome here: https://www.reddit.com/r/opnsense/comments/19ecrgx ?

" I tried OPNsense on bare metal with I226 Ethernet and the driver just kept dropping packets. I switched to Linux using a KVM VM and now it's rock solid. It appears the Linux driver is much better than the BSD driver. "

" Running Proxmox might actually get you better performance. The Linux drivers for that NIC may be better in Linux compared to FreeBSD. You can also enable multiqueue with Linux bridges and that should help a decent amount with performance.
[...]

Yeah try Linux bridges instead. 9 times out of 10 pcie passthrough is faster, but there can be edge cases where bridges win cause Linux has better support for the NIC. This might be one of those times.
I personally use Linux bridges in my Opnsense VM’s cause the fastest connection I have is a 1.25gb Comcast business line. Linux bridges can easily handle that.
"

What I can confirm is that my NIC drops packets. To test this, just run a command shell e.g. on Windows and run "ping -t <opnsense-ip>" for a while. After 10k packets I had less than 1% drop rate, but still....

I just tried that for about an hour, no dropped packets (N100 bare metal OPNsense)

 

[Dostring]

Can you put what is your nvme temperature and which model?

WD 850X 1TB. I had idle temp around 61 degrees C. I have installed radiator two days ago and it dropped to 54 deg. I was hoping for a bigger drop but oh well.

 

[metlrise]

Watch this video and after hold the nvme with the thermal pad and the heatsink to a light source and see if there is contact between the controller/nand + thermal pad + heatsink. And if you have a caliper, even better, because you can measure the total height of the NAND and the controller.

As a side note, I have 60C on full load on a SK hynix Gold P31 1TB with some JEYI thermal pads 5 W/mk + JEYI 7mm height heatsink, but I plan on buying 0.5mm/1mm pads from GELID