CSE-743TQ-903B-SQ and SAS3 backplane CSE-SAS-743TQ (SAS3 or SAS2?)

anomaly

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I'm about to decide whether to purchase the tower/4U convertible chassis (for a 38u rack, I need something relatively quiet in that location), but my supplier has given me options like CSE-743TQ-903B-SQ (as a "set"/prebuilt chassis with the backplane). I want to confirm which backplane is SAS3 and also if the chassis accepts any internal 3.5 HDDs.

Also if anyone has experience with the rails/rack conversion that would be great to know :)
 

i386

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The 743 and 745 chassis have all passive backplanes and support sas 1-3.
The 'tq' backplanes have "sata" connectors, the 'a' backplanes have the multilane sas connect sff-8643 connectors.


About the railkit for the 743/745: It's a pita nad I hope you have a rack where you can remove the sidewalls because you have to manually adjust the railkit to the depth of your serverrack.
 
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eduncan911

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@i386 is correct. "TQ" in the Supermicro models means direct-connect pass-through ports, no SAS Expander chip. They all accept SAS or SATA connectors from all drive types.

So it would come down to the HBA card and rather it supports SAS or just SATA. AFAIK, pretty much all LSI cards, like the LSI 9300i, all support SAS.

For the record, Supermicro's naming convention:

^- look at the 3rd set

Also note the backplane i386 listed above: BPN-SAS3-743A-N4

"SAS3" is, well, a SAS3 connections. Usually accepts one or two SFF connectors.
"743a" is the chassis it bolts right into.
There are various N4, EL1, EL2, etc designations. For that one, 4x U.2 connectors.
 
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i386

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That naming convention is little bit outdated. This backplane has actually no expander: sas3 reefers to the connectors used (sff-8643) and 'A' has the usual meaning of aggregated link/multilane sas ports.
 
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eduncan911

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That naming convention is little bit outdated. This backplane has actually no expander: sas3 reefers to the connectors used (sff-8643) and 'A' has the usual meaning of aggregated link/multilane sas ports.
Whoa... no way. No expander chip when it says SAS3? Yeah, consider myself schooled. Guess I'll stick to the old SC846 chassis and SAS2 stuff.

But now that I think about, even those backplanes say SAS2/SAS3 and end with EL1, EL2, TQ to designate 1 expander, 2 expander chips, or TQ direct connect respectfully.

Fixed my previous post (I think).
 
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anomaly

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Thank you all! This is why this forum is a savior :)

So, this is the option I was offered initially:

I understand then that the CSE-SAS-743TQ backplane is passive then, and so it will pass through SAS1/2/3 without issues. But it has a SATA connector, which shouldn't support dual channel? Other than cable terminations, is there an actual problem with connecting, say, a sff-8643 to SATA cable for SAS3 SSDs? (and also for SATA drives).

The BPN-SAS3-743A backplane should have SFF connectors, why do they offer then CBL-SAST-0631 (crossover from MiniSAS HD to SATA) in SC743TQ-903B-SQ? Maybe it's a dumb question but it is confusing, since the backplane should not be using SATA connectors.

And while I'm at it, I recommend them for other EU forum members, the person running the business is dedicated to solid customer support and pre-sales and he's made it a breeze to buy equipment (both components and chassis) in the past (and pretty much checked and answered every possible question I had, even double checking measurements and so on to avoid issues with rails and the like).
 

anomaly

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Another question I missed in my previous response: How well do Icy Dock carriers/multibay adapters work with this chassis? I have some already and it would be preferable to reuse them. I also don't know if there are sensible ways to mount NVMe drives internally (ex. any brackets for drives inside the chassis)
 

i386

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is there an actual problem with connecting, say, a sff-8643 to SATA cable for SAS3 SSDs? (and also for SATA drives).
Nope, no problems with hba/raid controller sff-8643 ports connected to a "tq" backplane and sata/sas hdds or ssds.
why do they offer then CBL-SAST-0631 (crossover from MiniSAS HD to SATA) in SC743TQ-903B-SQ?
I didn't check this particular cable, but there are cables that can be used to connect mainboard sata ports to "A" backplanes.
I also don't know if there are sensible ways to mount NVMe drives internally
What do you mean exactly with "nvme drives"?
U.2 ssds? You will need third party drive cages in the 5.25" slot or the bpn-sas3-743a-n4 backplane for that.
 
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anomaly

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Nope, no problems with hba/raid controller sff-8643 ports connected to a "tq" backplane and sata/sas hdds or ssds.
TQ backplanes have SATA ports? I think having photos of the 'front' and back facing sides of the backplane PCB could dissipate some of my questions.

SATA pinouts are 100% compatible with SAS3 *and* supporting dual channel too? It's probably a dumb question but I have never looked into the pinouts/signal distribution for either of them. I don't think I will benefit/need dual channel either, but as an investment, I would like to be able to use it if I needed to in the future.

I didn't check this particular cable, but there are cables that can be used to connect mainboard sata ports to "A" backplanes.
Forward/reverse cables, yes, I suppose you mean SATA to MiniSAS HD fan-out cables. I have HBAs with SAS connectors and use M/Bs that have them too as a rule of thumb (I think most modern M/Bs from SM have OcuLink or MiniSAS even for SATA). Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: attached a photo of CSE-SAS-743TQ, I see the SATA connectors.
 

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RedX1

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Hi



I have several of these Supermicro CSE 743/745 chassis. They are a great and very flexible Server/Workstation chassis, but there are a few gotcha’s.


Make sure the motherboard you want to use will fit; you might need to tap some stand-off fixing holes!

The larger EE-ATX motherboards such as the X9DRi-LN4F+ will not fit the CSE-743. For that size motherboard you will need the CSE-745 series with redundant PSU.


1625136392160.jpeg



The 743 chassis use the older PS2/ATX form-factor power supplies.

You will need to get creative in order to fit a modern ATX power supply as there are no modern ATX fixing points on the chassis.

IMG_2574 C.JPG


There are two styles of rear fan, both fit each chassis.

The internal - Green fan holders will accept standard 80mm 4 Pin-PWM fans. Supermicro sells a quite fan solution for these chassis FAN-0104L4 SC743 (SQ Middle), FAN-0103L4 SC743 (SQ Rear).


The Chassis feet can be easily removed (One Screw - Each) and the top panel has no screws, just a catch.



The Front Outer rails fit onto the back side of a normal rack, with 5mm screws – you will need to get creative again here. This it the method I used.



IMG_2582 C.JPG

The Rear Outer rails fit normally on the outside of the rack with 6mm cage nuts.


IMG_2576 C.JPG



As previously noted, you will need access to sides of the rack to adjust the outer rail length.

IMG_2575 C.JPG

One of the best aspects of this chassis is that the 3x5.25 drive cage can be rotated. Supermicro offers several solutions for fitting extra drives, see here.

Chassis | Supermicro

IMG_2578 C.JPG





I hope this helps.



RedX1
 

anomaly

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@RedX1 Thank you for the response, all the photos are of great help. The rails seem fine. How tight would the fit be for a 57.5cm distance between edges of the front/rear posts? (for the rails) I have about 10cm on each side to adjust for protruding cables and so on, it's a 80cm deep rack.

Also, do you know if the M28SACB-OEM rack fits? The one without the fan, because the fan is a 40mm 12k RPM screamer. I wonder if it could be changed. Definitely worth considering as SAS3 SSDs are toasters.
 

RedX1

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Hi

The Rack Cage Nut rails in the photo are 790mm from front to rear. I think the the shortest distance between them for this chassis to fit, would be ~700mm.

The 8 Drive M28SACB-OEM will not fit.

The 5 x 3.5 Drive M35 Series will fit. The 4 x 2.5 Drive M14 Series will also fit. (You can fit 3 of these units).

I use the 5V supply from the redundant FDD connecter to power the fan on the mobile racks, at 5V it will slow down the fan and still silence the alarm on the mobile rack. That might not work well enough to cool SAS 3 SSD's but for SATA3 SSD's it is fine.


I hope this helps.


RedX1
 
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anomaly

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Hi

The Rack Cage Nut rails in the photo are 790mm from front to rear. I think the the shortest distance between them for this chassis to fit, would be ~700mm.

RedX1
Do you think you could measure the actual "sliding" length of the rails? (that's what she said) Typically the rail can be collapsed to a minimum usable length edge to edge, that should be the measure that matters here. I would like to think they can collapse to 57.5cm, even if the case protrudes out the front and rear a bit.

The 8 Drive M28SACB-OEM will not fit.

The 5 x 3.5 Drive M35 Series will fit. The 4 x 2.5 Drive M14 Series will also fit. (You can fit 3 of these units).

I use the 5V supply from the redundant FDD connecter to power the fan on the mobile racks, at 5V it will slow down the fan and still silence the alarm on the mobile rack. That might not work well enough to cool SAS 3 SSD's but for SATA3 SSD's it is fine.


I hope this helps.
This is great info. Thank you again. I'm not surprised the M28SACB-OEM might not fit, is it because of the depth? I assumed the non OEM part would never fit because of the fan.

I intend to use a 8 x 2.5 slim Icy Dock bay (armor series) and I'm hoping to use a NVMe equivalent too, 4x unit one I guess. Not sure if Supermicro has one in that format.
 

RedX1

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HI

The inner (Chassis Mounted Sliding Rails) are 660mm long and cannot be modified, they are essentially the same length as the Chassis.

The outer (Rack Mounting Rails) are 525mm if closed together) but can be cut down shorter if you need.

Perhaps a more nuanced response would be that the M28SACB-OEM might not fit as it is not designed for this chassis. The Mobile Racks I mentioned are designed for this chassis.

Check out the M14TQC 4x2.25 unit.


RedX1
 
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anomaly

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Neat, I guess then it's just a matter of properly adjusting the rack mounting rails to the edge to edge/post to post distance, if they are like some generic rails I have used they have several nuts and bolts with a few straight lines cut into the rail so you can adjust the whole assembly. Since the shop is quite helpful with the delivery and presales/postsale support I will give it a go.

I'm checking the M14TQC 4x2.25 mobile rack, I have this one already: MB994SP-4S_ToughArmor Series_REMOVABLE 2.5" SSD / HDD ENCLOSURES_ICY DOCK manufacturer Removable enclosure, Screwless hard drive enclosure, SAS SATA Mobile Rack, DVR Surveillance Recording, Video Audio Editing, SATA portable hard drive enclosure (from Icy Dock)

BTW, for quieting any of the 4U and 3U chassis from SM, do you have any specific recommendations? :) I will do some research in the forum. Feel free to PM me, but I think we can make this thread very useful for other people (it already is).
 

RedX1

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Hi

Here is the picture of the rails, I think this will be what you are looking for.

IMG_2583C.JPG


The 5.25 components fit into this mounting - it can be fitted either Vertically or Horizontally to suit a rack mount or a desk workstation.

The M14 and the M35 Mobile Racks will fit this, I am not at all sure the the M28 units will fit. If you are in Europe, ask Supermicro Support Europe their support is fantastic.
Support_Europe@supermicro.com

IMG_2586C.JPG

The 5.25 Drives or Caddys have small mounting rails.

IMG_2593C.JPG



Supermicro have some oprions for mounting 3.5 HDD. You can fit one 4 Drive Rack and 4 Individual Caddy’s without a backplane if you want.

IMG_2592C.JPG


Normal 80mm PWM PC fans will fit in the Green Hot Swop housings. Your choice of fans will depend on the motherboard you want to use.





IMG_2589C.JPG


The Mid-Chassis Fan-Wall is easilly removable without drilling. But it does take some paitence and nothing else fitted to the chassis to remove it.


Good luck with you project. These really are a great and very flexible chassis.



Take care.



RedX1
 

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anomaly

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Thanks a mil again, and sorry for the delay in responding. I'm working things out for the purchase after the holidays :)
 

ferl13

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Hi, everyone

Sorry for hijacking this thread thread, but the content fits my question so well and you seem to be very familiar with this matter.

Does anyone have any idea whether a SAS backplane (BPN-SAS3-743A) is compatible with a SlimSAS port of an H12SSL-NT board? The port can be set to 8 SATA3 or 2 NVMe mode.
In my opinion a connection should basically be possible with Slimline SAS x8 (LE) to 2x MiniSAS cables (CBL-SAST-0826). But to be honest, I have no idea whether this wiring can be used for operation in SATA mode.
I have already submitted a request to Supermicro Support, but unfortunately haven't received any feedback for a week.

I hesite to buy a CSE-745BTQ-R920B or CSE-745BAC-R1K23B chassis. Currently I only use SATA disks, but a SAS backplane seems to be more flexible and future-proof.

Thank you for every hint