Cheap Amazon Switches From a Fire Safety Perspective

[Adventurous-Lime191]

I am looking to upgrade my network and loved the roundups on STH about cheap 2.5g/10g switches. I have found a switch that perfectly fits my needs from the
MokerLink and ienRon brands. But something is stopping me from pulling the trigger. I understand the potential risks from a security perspective. But I am trying to understand the risks from a cheap hardware perspective. What is the worst that can happen for a switch?

Also if anyone knows of a switch with 4x2.5G Ports and 2x10G SFP+ Ports from a more reputable brand I would love a recommendation.

 

[louie1961]

Mokerlink is fine. I have had a 30 port 2.5g/10g managed switch for 18 months now. No issues, works great, and barely gets warm

 

[bugacha]

What is the worst that can happen for a switch?

your apartment burns down killing everyone inside

 

[klui]

Without dissecting the components, especially the electrical, you can never be certain what kinds of shortcuts the vendor made to bring the price down. This is the reason why entities like UL exist.

Latest analysis from DiodeGoneWild

 

[bugacha]

Love his accent !

 

[louie1961]

your apartment burns down killing everyone inside

Yeah, and a meteor could strike the earth and wipe out all life. I actually think the likelihood of an asteroid wiping out all life is much greater than the likelihood of a network switch burning down your apartment.

 

[tgl]

I actually think the likelihood of an asteroid wiping out all life is much greater than the likelihood of a network switch burning down your apartment.

The switch itself won't cause that: there's no high voltage in it. It's the sketchy wall-wart power brick that you should be scared of.

 

[bugacha]

Yeah, and a meteor could strike the earth and wipe out all life. I actually think the likelihood of an asteroid wiping out all life is much greater

especially if a meteor made in China

 

[ms264556]

The switch itself won't cause that: there's no high voltage in it. It's the sketchy wall-wart power brick that you should be scared of.

I have an alert set up for any $1 (~US$0.60) auctions of ISP routers in my neighborhood. These come with high quality 1.5 - 2.5A wall-warts which I keep in a box for when I buy APs or AliExpress devices. (I discard the router). You can usually earn the 60¢ back because AliExpress sellers charge different amounts for different country adapters.

 

[Dave Corder]

The switch itself won't cause that: there's no high voltage in it. It's the sketchy wall-wart power brick that you should be scared of.

Yes, this.

I have a Hasivo S600WP-5GT-2SX_SE (4x 2.5Gbps PoE, 1x 2.5Gbps RJ45, 2x 10Gbsp SFP) that I've had since Aug 2023. Not that long ago the power adapter for it went up in smoke - literally! Set off the smoke detector and everything. Thankfully I was home and was able to get to it before it actually burst into flames and caught the house on fire, but that was a close call.

Unfortunately, being a PoE switch, it uses something like a 52v or 58v wall wart, so finding a high quality replacement has been a bit difficult. Right now I have it running on a generic 52v PSU from AliExpress (that luckily I had on hand already) that's probably just as sketchy as the original.

 

[blunden]

Yes, this.

I have a Hasivo S600WP-5GT-2SX_SE (4x 2.5Gbps PoE, 1x 2.5Gbps RJ45, 2x 10Gbsp SFP) that I've had since Aug 2023. Not that long ago the power adapter for it went up in smoke - literally! Set off the smoke detector and everything. Thankfully I was home and was able to get to it before it actually burst into flames and caught the house on fire, but that was a close call.

Unfortunately, being a PoE switch, it uses something like a 52v or 58v wall wart, so finding a high quality replacement has been a bit difficult. Right now I have it running on a generic 52v PSU from AliExpress (that luckily I had on hand already) that's probably just as sketchy as the original.

Let me know if you find a suitable high quality replacement.

How much PoE power were you using btw?

I assume you were using the 65W (52V 1.25A) PSU? I have the 130W (52V 2.5A) PSU, but I've been thinking of buying a PSU from a known brand where I can be sure that the regulatory markings are real. Like you however, I've found 52V PSUs from known brands hard to find.

Besides Mean Well, Channel Well Technology (CWT) and Great Wall, are there any other brands I should look at? AcBel?

EDIT: Looks like CWT has a model (2ABU120T (52V 2.3A)) that should work, but I haven't found a place to buy it unfortunately.

 

[Dave Corder]

Let me know if you find a suitable high quality replacement.

How much PoE power were you using btw?

I assume you were using the 65W (52V 1.25A) PSU? I have the 130W (52V 2.5A) PSU, but I've been thinking of buying a PSU from a known brand where I can be sure that the regulatory markings are real. Like you however, I've found 52V PSUs from known brands hard to find.

Besides Mean Well, Channel Well Technology (CWT) and Great Wall, are there any other brands I should look at? AcBel?

EDIT: Looks like CWT has a model (2ABU120T (52V 2.3A)) that should work, but I haven't found a place to buy it unfortunately.

The web UI says I'm currently using about 40W. I'm powering two EnGenius EWS377v3 APs and two EnGenius EWS850 APs with it, plus an SFP+ fiber uplink to my ICX6610-48P.

Yes, I believe I had the 65W PSU. The spare I had on hand and am using now is a 130W model, which I bought in anticipation of needing more wattage for my APs, but I'd been under the 65W so far so I hadn't switched over.

Anyway, I wonder what the voltage tolerance is on these PoE switches. I have a Brocade ICX7150-C12 with an apparent main board failure, but the PSU is still good. It's a 54V 5.74A supply - more than enough for this switch. I may end up using it or one like it in a 3D-printed enclosure w/fan and wire it up to a barrel plug. I think I'd want to crack open the switch first and see what voltage regulators it has and see if they can tolerate the additional 2 volts (probably, but would be nice to have a bit of confidence in that).

Edit: FSP makes a 120W 54V power brick and they're available pretty cheap on eBay (search "FSP120 54v"). It'd probably be smarter for me to go with one of those (and replace or adapt the tip if necessary) than bodging up something with an open-frame PSU from a dead switch...

 

[blunden]

The web UI says I'm currently using about 40W. I'm powering two EnGenius EWS377v3 APs and two EnGenius EWS850 APs with it, plus an SFP+ fiber uplink to my ICX6610-48P.

Yes, I believe I had the 65W PSU. The spare I had on hand and am using now is a 130W model, which I bought in anticipation of needing more wattage for my APs, but I'd been under the 65W so far so I hadn't switched over.

Anyway, I wonder what the voltage tolerance is on these PoE switches. I have a Brocade ICX7150-C12 with an apparent main board failure, but the PSU is still good. It's a 54V 5.74A supply - more than enough for this switch. I may end up using it or one like it in a 3D-printed enclosure w/fan and wire it up to a barrel plug. I think I'd want to crack open the switch first and see what voltage regulators it has and see if they can tolerate the additional 2 volts (probably, but would be nice to have a bit of confidence in that).

Edit: FSP makes a 120W 54V power brick and they're available pretty cheap on eBay (search "FSP120 54v"). It'd probably be smarter for me to go with one of those (and replace or adapt the tip if necessary) than bodging up something with an open-frame PSU from a dead switch...

Yeah, I was also wondering about voltage tolerance. I might try to ask Hasivo about it, but they don't always respond.

I'm guessing that whatever voltage you give it is what it will provide to the PoE devices connected to it. My AP accepts anything between 44 - 57V so as long as the switch itself is fine with 48V or 54V, that would probably work and be easier to find. 48V PSUs definitely seem to be easier to find.

There are pictures of the internals available online, but I don't know if they are of high enough resolution to tell exact component models. Below is one of the ones I found before:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

https://forum.openwrt.org/uploads/default/original/3X/e/e/ee489371057416932fbd16546c3c269cb6b3a239.jpeg

 

[Dave Corder]

Yeah, I was also wondering about voltage tolerance. I might try to ask Hasivo about it, but they don't always respond.

Yeah, worth a shot, but I wouldn't count on a reply, either.

In guessing that whatever voltage you give it is what it will provide to the PoE devices connected to it. My AP accepts anything between 44 - 57V so as long as the switch itself is fine with 48V or 54V, that would probably work and be easier to find. 48V PSUs definitely seem to be easier to find.

You may be right about that. I always assumed PoE was 48v, but according to PoE Voltage: Powering Your Network.:

PoE Voltage
The original IEEE 802.3af-2003 PoE standard voltage specifies supplying between 44 and 57 Volts DC over Ethernet, with a maximum power output of 15.4 Watts (W) per port. This means networked devices can draw up to 15.4W safely as the voltage will stay within the 44V to 57V range.

PoE+ Voltage
An update to IEEE 802.3af specification, IEEE 802.3at-2009 or PoE+, enhanced the power capabilities by delivering higher power 400mA at 52V to 57V levels while still using just the Ethernet cable.

So 54VDC would still be within the range of both PoE and PoE+...I think it's probably safe to supply the switch with 54VDC. I would imagine most of the silicon in it runs at 3.3VDC, and I doubt they would use a 3.3V voltage regulator with a wide enough input range to handle 52V but not 54V.

Guess I'll pick up one of the FSP units and give it a try.

There are pictures of the internals available online, but I don't know if they are of high enough resolution to tell exact component models. Below is one of the ones I found before:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

https://forum.openwrt.org/uploads/default/original/3X/e/e/ee489371057416932fbd16546c3c269cb6b3a239.jpeg

Can't make out part numbers on whatever the 3.3v regulator is (looks to be the thing to the right of the DC input jack), but see my comment above

 

[blunden]

Yeah, worth a shot, but I wouldn't count on a reply, either.

Yeah, I sent them a message asking about this, but I don't really expect a response.

You may be right about that. I always assumed PoE was 48v, but according to PoE Voltage: Powering Your Network.:

PoE Voltage
The original IEEE 802.3af-2003 PoE standard voltage specifies supplying between 44 and 57 Volts DC over Ethernet, with a maximum power output of 15.4 Watts (W) per port. This means networked devices can draw up to 15.4W safely as the voltage will stay within the 44V to 57V range.

PoE+ Voltage
An update to IEEE 802.3af specification, IEEE 802.3at-2009 or PoE+, enhanced the power capabilities by delivering higher power 400mA at 52V to 57V levels while still using just the Ethernet cable.

So 54VDC would still be within the range of both PoE and PoE+...I think it's probably safe to supply the switch with 54VDC. I would imagine most of the silicon in it runs at 3.3VDC, and I doubt they would use a 3.3V voltage regulator with a wide enough input range to handle 52V but not 54V.

Guess I'll pick up one of the FSP units and give it a try.

I didn't know that the lower limit had been increased to 52V. Good thing I didn't order a 48V PSU then.

Yes, 54V is hopefully perfectly fine as well. Let me know how that works out.

Sadly, the FSP units aren't as cheap over here. I looked at buying one from the US, but it wasn't clear from the photos what plug it had on the AC end.

NOTE: The web interface of the Hasivo firmware has a bug that causes the lowest PoE power limit you can set to be 200W. This is enforced client side though, so you can bypass it. I documented this in the thread for this particular switch. Also, changes to this value are seemingly not saved to the configuration (but show up in the GUI and CLI) so I'm pretty sure the change doesn't survive a reboot.

 

[Dave Corder]

Sadly, the FSP units aren't as cheap over here. I looked at buying one from the US, but it wasn't clear from the photos what plug it had on the AC end.

Yeah, the second-hand ones I found were pretty cheap - I bought a pair on eBay for about $21 total. They have a standard C14 socket on them (and don't come with a cord), so you can just use a regular PC power cord. I will have to adapt the plugs on them on the DC side - probably will just cut off the 4-pin DIN and solder on a new 5.5mm/2.5mm plug. I'll report back with my results when I get them.

 

[blunden]

Yeah, the second-hand ones I found were pretty cheap - I bought a pair on eBay for about $21 total. They have a standard C14 socket on them (and don't come with a cord), so you can just use a regular PC power cord. I will have to adapt the plugs on them on the DC side - probably will just cut off the 4-pin DIN and solder on a new 5.5mm/2.5mm plug. I'll report back with my results when I get them.

That's cheap!

I would probably have to pay roughly $46 for a single one used (after international shipping from the US and VAT), but seemingly with the correct connector on it (FSP120-AWAN3-M).

Netgear also sell a 54V 130W power supply as an upgrade for their PoE switches that would likely work too, but that's more expensive. This one likely has the wrong power connector though.

 

[blunden]

@Dave Corder Just got a response from Hasivo: "37-57v support"

EDIT: I ended up buying one from this listing now that we know that the voltage shouldn't be a problem:

Original FSP Power Supply Adapter Model FSP120-AWAN3-M 54V 2.22A 120W 6.5mm | eBay

Present normal use wear. Power Cord is included. We stand behind our products.

www.ebay.com

EDIT 2: Just received word that the power adapter I ordered got lost in shipping and refunded. Now it's sold out. I'm having a hard time finding another suitable adapter with the right power connector.

 

[blunden]

Yeah, the second-hand ones I found were pretty cheap - I bought a pair on eBay for about $21 total. They have a standard C14 socket on them (and don't come with a cord), so you can just use a regular PC power cord. I will have to adapt the plugs on them on the DC side - probably will just cut off the 4-pin DIN and solder on a new 5.5mm/2.5mm plug. I'll report back with my results when I get them.

How did it go?

I ended up finding an FSP120-AWAN3 (non-M) with a 4-pin DIN connector on it on eBay. Since I don't have a soldering iron, I ended up using an adapter. After confirming the polarity, I plugged it in and have been running my Hasivo switch with it for a few days.

 

[Dave Corder]

How did it go?

I ended up finding an FSP120-AWAN3 (non-M) with a 4-pin DIN connector on it on eBay. Since I don't have a soldering iron, I ended up using an adapter. After confirming the polarity, I plugged it in and have been running my Hasivo switch with it for a few days.

I haven't actually had a chance to replace the plug and give one a try. I might not for a while, as shortly after I bought the alternate PSUs, I won an auction for an EnGenius ECS2512F switch (8 2.5Gbps RJ45 ports, 4 10Gbps SFP+ ports). While not the PoE version, I plan to pick up a couple 2.5Gbps-capable PoE injectors and just use that switch instead, as I have more faith in EnGenius and their hardware (I use their APs at home) than what I'm using now.