Can someone help me identify this server build?

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Defcon1

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Seller is offering a Chenbro RM41416 and said its a JBOD, here is a pic of internals. From looking at this image, it seems its not using a SAS expander correct? Looks like an HBA is installed with SATA breakout cables (the card in middle with 4 cables)? And what is the card to the left of it with more cables?

I can't tell if this has a SAS backplane is SAS1/2/3? the Chenbro site says it supports SAS3 12Gb/s mini-SAS HD backplane.

Trying to decide if this is a good buy for home use, also concerned with how loud the fans on this will be?

chenbro-RM41416-fb.jpg
 
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BlueFox

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Looks like a SAS expander to me with 2 x SFF-8088 ports on the rear. The part to the left of it with the 24 pin ATX power connector is just so that the front panel LEDs and buttons work. I would expect it to be loud, especially with what appears to be a redundant PSU.
 
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Defcon1

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So the 4 cables are going to backplane? Aren't there just 1/2 cables needed for expanders? And is there a way to tell if this is SAS2/3 or just SAS1?

How loud is this compared to SuperMicro servers? I know the SM has a SQ version of the PSU and a lot of people also replace the fans in the 4U chassis with 120mm ones. Have no idea if these Chenbro's can be made quiet enough for home use?
 

BlueFox

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The card where the motherboard would normally be is the SAS expander. It's not part of the backplane in this case. Without seeing the part number, going to be hard to tell whether it's SAS1 or SAS2. Definitely not SAS3.

Supermicro servers vary in noise greatly too and sound is very subjective. You could certainly replace the fans, but you would also compromise airflow and have rather hot drives.
 

i386

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So the 4 cables are going to backplane? Aren't there just 1/2 cables needed for expanders? And is there a way to tell if this is SAS2/3 or just SAS1?
Yes, the 4 cables go from the active expander to the passive/"stupid" backplane.
This is a tricky question; there are expanders integrated into backplanes (for example what supermicr, hpe, dell and many other oems do) and there are expanders as add-in cards like the one from chenbro in the first posts picture or the intel res* cards.
In this case yes: chenbro only made a sas 2 version of the expander add in card (CK22803) that can be used like in the picture.
 

Defcon1

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here are closeup pics of HBA. Anyone have an idea what this is?

chenbro_hba.jpgchenbro_hba_2.jpg

I searched the serial in 1st pic and it may be this -


this card looks like it has external sff-8088. so I can use this as JBOD with no other mods, the only issue would be noise level? anyone know which PSU's chenbro usually has and how loud they will be, or the chassis fans?
 

BlueFox

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Like I mentioned in my previous posts, that's a SAS expander, not HBA.
 

Defcon1

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Like I mentioned in my previous posts, that's a SAS expander, not HBA.
sorry, got mixed up, yes I understand what you meant.

this is the PSU - m1z-6420p3
chenbro_jbod_psu.jpg

5x80mm fans -
chenbro_jbod_fan.jpg

seller says even with 2 fans removed there's enough airflow. There are 3 PSU's but even with just one connected its plenty loud.

There isn't much I could find, does Chenbro make SQ like quieter versions, and can someone suggest replacement fans that will be quieter but have enough airflow? e,g Noctua NF-A8? I googled the fan above but couldn't find any specs for cfm.
 

BlueFox

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Doubt you're going to find replacement power supplies. Looking at the specs, they're absolutely ancient anyway.
 

itronin

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Sometimes I miss the good ole dayzzz.... Chenbro RM41416 When mfg's would put everything they had about a product online.

I guess @Defcon1 the question is how much work and adaptation hackery do you want to put into this? I think a key question is how much moolah does the seller want? IMO anything more than $200 is probably too much if you want a 16 bay LFF jbod that is semi-quiet. There's SM 836's (some adapting required), Netapp 4246's etc. etc for about that price.

About the power supply
Chenbro sold a bracket to adapt the psu frame to a mostly standard ATX (they're calling it ps2). That would probably be your most energy efficient and quietest solution if you don't want redundant power supplies... Problem is you are unlikely to find NOS or used of the

84H341410-012Bracket, PSU, 4U, For PS/2 PSU

But you might be able to fab or 3d print a bracket and support collar.
Then again its possible someone on here has the right bracket sitting in a box on a shelf...

If you want hotswap psu there are more modern ATX form factor hot swaps you can get (but see above and you might even be able to adapt a SM power supply bay and pdu into the chassis if you have a donor unit.

If this was me I'd ask the seller for a nice photo of the model number on the backbplane. there's a lot of detail on chenbro's web site and you'd be able to answer th equestion SAS2 or SAS rated? That said since the backplane is passive it probably will work at least to SAS2 and with the right HBA or expander and cables you may be able to run SAS3 drives in there. SFF-8087 isn't really talked about as rated for 12Gbps per lane, but a lot of folks say it works. YMMV.

Seller including rails? you might have trouble finding them. May not be a problem if you are willing to lose a U to a shelf or L-brackets (depdning on server thickness netapp rails might not cost you a U).

Seems to me though this chassis is actually a bit of a unicorn if you were actually looking for a quiet all-in-one server (AIO). It can have a mix of LFF and SF hotswaps. You can easily get 6-10 2.5" hot swap bays utilizing the 5.25" & 3.5 optical and floppy bays. Qty of drives will depend on the thickness and type you want to support, SATA SSD, SAS SSD, U.2? All are possible. Its big enough to handle a good selection of modern GPU's. the motherboard area is large enough for dual socket and the bottom looks likely threaded for standoffs to support one. You can get an ATX psu in there and replace the fan wall so it can be made to be quiet. With the right motherboard, enough pcie lanes, bifurcation support, and some low cost multi m.2 carriers you could also have quite the nvme drive array to boot!

I think to use this a server with modern components there's some work and time involved whether as a JBOD or AIO.

If you are okay with loud and old components (you may have trouble replacing) in your JBOD and the price is right it will probably work.
 
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Defcon1

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@itronin thanks for the detailed thoughts.

About the prices - I don't see SC836/846 or the NetApp/Dell MD1200 for anywhere close to that price, with caddies etc.

My non knowledgeable thoughts are that replacing PSU with aftermarket ATX could be a pain. I know for SM many people would just velcro the PSU but they also had a much more compatible power connector? Not sure about Chenbro. Things like replacing the fan wall etc are all well documented for SM, you can buy them online.

What I'm hoping for is that the main source of noise is the fans. I did more googling and finally found some data here -

5x FD128032HB-P 80mm
max airflow 69.4cfm
max static pressure 19.2 mm-h2o
noise 53dBa
7.8W

so that's a screamer. these are also probably designed to provide airflow to a server grade CPU with passive heatsink. In a Jbod there's not any of that. The seller did say he ran with 3 out of 5 original fans and it was fine.

I'm hoping e.g. Arctic P8 Max (40cfm, 5.3mm H20) will be good enough? I have no idea how easy it would be to replace the fans in their hotswap housing. I also cannot find out any mention of how their speed is controlled, even though they are pwm, there's no IPMI etc.

I already have a PC to act as server, with an LSI 9207-8e card, all I need is a JBOD to attach. The other thought I had is that with a JBOD DAS, I do not need to think about network speed, otherwise I'd want 10gbe. I already have 16 drives ready to populate, most are now used as externals.
 

itronin

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@itronin thanks for the detailed thoughts.

About the prices - I don't see SC836/846 or the NetApp/Dell MD1200 for anywhere close to that price, with caddies etc.
hmmm did I say 846? If I did I would have purchased it and not mentioned it... :p

SM836 on the bay for about $174 shipped CONUS. There are two. That's a TQ backplane (SATA cable connectors). works fine with SATA drives, SAS2, and SAS3 drives using appropriate HBA or expander.

some work is required to convert the 836, you need to decide if you want to SAS2 or SAS3 this. SATA to SAS (of appropriateconnector) cables, expander, maybe a nice managed JBOD board - someone had posted a nice custom one that they did and were selling - maybe in Denmark? anyway. work required with an 836.

SM jbod board is about $50.00. SAS2 cables will be about $5-$10 each for the nice SATA right angle to SFF-8087.
~40.00 each for the 920SQ PSU's. 1 or 2 - that would be your choice. Honestly, probably probably all in for $350USD to turn that 836 into a JBOD.

Yikes. Netapp prices went up a bit since I bought mine ($125 with psu, caddies, rails, had to replace IOM3's). okay. not $200.00 now.

About the same as the supermicro all in - just a lot less work


you should do some research before going down the netapp route. there are some caveats and tricks etc.

my point is that whether the chenbro or the 836 some work/effort is required to get them to a happy place (quiet/sas2/sas3 etc).
my starting point in cost was $200 since that's roughly the chassis cost for an 836 - comparable 16 LFF bays.

I already have a PC to act as server, with an LSI 9207-8e card, all I need is a JBOD to attach.
Did you mention this above? ach so! SAS2 then is all you need.

question is just making that beast quieter. So how much does the seller want you to part with for the Chenbro?
 

Defcon1

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You see I'd have no clue that Dell was a rebranded SC836. That Netapp looks pretty tempting, its still $300 with the shipping, some quick searching shows people talk about replacing its fans etc.

seller listed for 300 but said he's open to lower offers, seems like a nice guy.

then you have people like this - https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/sop/d/victoria-new-supermicro-846-sas3-jbod/7808300301.html, I've never seen a jbod with the IPMI for sale, that board itself sells for $300

Isn't this Chenbro same as the Netapp you linked - its plug and play JBOD with no changes needed, except for noise level?
 
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itronin

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Isn't this Chenbro same as the Netapp you linked - its plug and play JBOD with no changes needed, except for noise level?
functinally as a DAS - sure.

Loudness is subjective. I can't say which will seem louder to you.

In my mind if something fails or physically breaks then getting spares for the Chenbro may be harder than the Netapp.

But the biggie to me is that if I am going to use 4U of space I'd like max value for the space. 24 LFF drives will trump 16.

there are a couple of threads here that go into detail about the netapp / xyratex chassis, IOM's, psu's etc. You might take a quick glance at those.

For a server project? I'd jump on the Chenbro.

DAS? Netapp.

DAS in the interim building a server out of it later then Chenbro.

You may have requirements I'm not aware of that might make the Chenbro more attractive.
 

Defcon1

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functinally as a DAS - sure.

Loudness is subjective. I can't say which will seem louder to you.

In my mind if something fails or physically breaks then getting spares for the Chenbro may be harder than the Netapp.

But the biggie to me is that if I am going to use 4U of space I'd like max value for the space. 24 LFF drives will trump 16.

there are a couple of threads here that go into detail about the netapp / xyratex chassis, IOM's, psu's etc. You might take a quick glance at those.

For a server project? I'd jump on the Chenbro.

DAS? Netapp.

DAS in the interim building a server out of it later then Chenbro.

You may have requirements I'm not aware of that might make the Chenbro more attractive.
yes the NetApp does look like a better value since it has 24 drives. And has a better reputation.

I don't really have any big requirements - whatever is a good compromise on price/usability.
 

nabsltd

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You see I'd have no clue that Dell was a rebranded SC836.
If a rack-mountable device was originally released 8 or more years ago, there's a fairly high chance it's a Supermicro chassis underneath.

Some things to look for:
  • the plum-colored power buttons, plus the release buttons on the drive trays and power supplies (sometimes the drive trays can have yellow buttons)
  • the drive carriers, with two rows of holes, and the holes are rounded squares
  • the yellow warning stickers on the inner rails