Any thoughts on E5-2697A v4? The comparison seems favourable, especially since the price I am seeing lower prices by about 50% than the E5-2687W v4. The A CPU also seems to be compatible with Sabertooth X99.
Can I escape ThreadRipper PRO with AM5?
- Thread starter Pakna
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Storm peak seems not due till end of 2023, no clue on specs yet, and AMD isn't known for teasing nearly year ahead of release. Computex/June is probably soonest teaser. CES is around the corner if they have something in the works for April-May this is when they talk about it.
What games do you play? 30-60fps is not a hard target, id expect any cpu can do that... and at 1600p, CPU is less of a limiter than at 1080p.
I used to play Pubg on the x99/1680v3 w/1080ti a far greater frames than that on my ZR30w.
Recently came across this rumour - looks like a true return to HEDT, with TR 7000 Zen4 core, 4-channel DDR5 and an option to go either 64 or 128 lanes. Looks like a new socket as well (SP6).
Almost exclusively single-player - Deus Ex MD, Elite: Dangerous, Terra Invicta, X-Com, Stellaris, Baldur's Gate....stuff like that. I don't think that last one will have any problems running on any CPU I would swap out though
I am more interested in just not having OS and IDEA running sluggishly after I swap out the CPU.Im running X570 Tomahawk (I don't like MSI either, I have enough issues with their late BIOSes that refused to work with my Lexar NM800 and prior boards that gave my customers issues) with a 5900X. 10GbE is fine for me with a CX3.
I might buy genoa for my office, storm peak seems a bit unnecessary for a personal workstation
Yes. If the UEFI does not "follow" the max all core speed the only thing stopping a 26xx V4 is power limit and single core max turbo bin (4ghz in this case)
Storm Peak is most likely really happening in two flavors. Possibly with the Siena socket for the non Pro and the full fat Genoa socket for the ProRecently came across this rumour - looks like a true return to HEDT, with TR 7000 Zen4 core, 4-channel DDR5 and an option to go either 64 or 128 lanes. Looks like a new socket as well (SP6).
Almost exclusively single-player - Deus Ex MD, Elite: Dangerous, Terra Invicta, X-Com, Stellaris, Baldur's Gate....stuff like that. I don't think that last one will have any problems running on any CPU I would swap out though
Why do you think Genoa is better suited as a workstation than Storm Peak?
If I understand this correctly (and disregarding silicon lottery) then a lower core CPU part would have a better chance not blowing past the power limit - but how do you know what the single-core max turbo bin is? Why not 41 or 39 or any other number? Or is this just something that was found empirically to be true?
on 26xx v3/v4 and most other Intel this can be read from cpu MSR registers. check HWinfo for a (fixed)table. nonAVX, AVX2, AVX512(is avail)
Is there a master table that lists all these per CPU model or is this baked in individually in the factory? Looking at hwinfo.com and I can't see anything similar.
EDIT: I've pulled the trigger on E5-2697A v4 for 80 USD. Hopefully it won't be much slower in single-thread performance than this i7-5820k@4.2 GHz
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I didn't mention genoa for my WS, I will be playing with one for my server at my office
ah yeah, I wasn't sure which one existed.
I had the same conundrum. I picked up this motherboard because I was the happiest with the PCIe breakout, 10Gb NIC, USB4.
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So as the dust settles from the AMD Storm Peak announcement, let me necro this thread by saying how disappointed I am by the non-PRO (a.k.a HEDT) version of the Threadripper. The year of waiting looks to be for naught.
Let's start by the rather meagre 48 PCIe lanes (instead of the expected 64). The MSRP pricing of the 7960X model is still steep (1500 USD) and that is just the CPU alone. 7965WX is 2500 USD - no comments there. The TRX50 motherboard prices are currently unknown but if past gen is anything to go by, I'd expect those to start at 600 USD (and that is probably too optimstic). Add to that something like 300 USD for kit of 4x32 GB DDR5 RAM, and the grand total climbs to almost 2000 USD. And lastly, let's not discount the possibility of Nov 19 being just a paper launch (so add +6 months to availiability).
For 2k USD, I can assemble a system with [the least tacky] AM5 motherboard, an decent CPU and plenty of RAM (7950X + X670E-E + 2x32 GB DDR5) and still have money in the bank. I am starting to suspect the TRX50 is going to be merely an upsell proposition for the WRX90 platform, not really a spiritual successor to the legendary X99/X299.
Elsewhere, the situation currently isn't any better than it used to be and that is another surprise. Looking at the previous gen of Threadripper PRO, I can find the Asus WRX80 Sage motherboard for around 600 USD but the CPUs are just stupidly expensive - the cheapest I could find is 1100 USD for 5955wx and that is just 16 Zen3 cores - it's almost as expensive as the 7960X, so the value is clearly not there. 3955wx is almost as equally as expensive if not more expensive - and that is Zen 2 CPU, which makes my mind reel.
Looking at the AM5 plaform, I still am amazed at the irrationality of the motherboard layouts and the design choices. All of them are still bloated with junk as they were before - prices have gone down somewhat but not by much.
In the who-needs-it category (i.e. X670 chipset), there are plenty of contenders:
- every manufacturer is fixated at M.2 PCIe 5.0 slots as if everybody will be running pairs of Crucial T700 in RAID0 all the time,
- VRM phase count is just plain crazy (18+2 VRM power phases - 110A per phase!!). I guess everybody is running LN2 these days,
- external connectivity is just ridiculous. Asus Strix X670E-E has 22 USB3.2 port connections - twenty-two(!),
- WiFi 6E.
Unsurprisingly, the remaining PCIe ports are still manacled - the moment you put something in two ports, the number of lanes cuts in half.
All in all, with AM5 chipset, it looks like every manufacturer has their motherboard design team run by marketing instead of engineering. I still haven't seen a semi-reasonable design.
The one thing thing I haven't really looked at is the last-gen Epyc platforms - mostly because I have longevity concerns about cooling. The case I am currently running is Fractal Torrent and I prefer it run _very_ quiet as its sitting on the floor just next to me. Server components, OTOH, really like airflow.
I am still running an E5-2643 V3 six-core Xeon on X99 board but the platform is starting to show its age. I don't have a lot of complaints about the performance but the components may be nearing their lifetime - I am seeing more frequent need for restarts (strange errors and slowdowns that get fixed on reboot), and sometimes the machine just doesn't get past POST. Chasing down the root cause doesn't seem like a good investment of time or money.
My needs are still relatively simple: I'd be happy to have a platform for the next 8-9 years just like X99; a good CPU, 64 (or ideally 128) GB of RAM, a GPU (my 1080ti is currently sufficient), an Optane 905p and X520-DA2 NIC. If I can plug all of that in without hobbling the system [too much], I'd go for that. I don't care about overclocking, USB3/Thunderbolt connectivity, wifi and LED lights - just am looking for something that will do the job fast, quietly, stealthily and reliably.
I don't mind shelling out dollars for something that's going to serve me for a good part of the next decade but I can't see good value in neither TRX50 nor AM5. Intel platforms are just sad - the 14900 fiasco speaks for itself and the workstation platforms seem to offer less for the same money than AMD.
Am I missing something obvious? Where else should I look at? Any thoughts are appreciated.
Let's start by the rather meagre 48 PCIe lanes (instead of the expected 64). The MSRP pricing of the 7960X model is still steep (1500 USD) and that is just the CPU alone. 7965WX is 2500 USD - no comments there. The TRX50 motherboard prices are currently unknown but if past gen is anything to go by, I'd expect those to start at 600 USD (and that is probably too optimstic). Add to that something like 300 USD for kit of 4x32 GB DDR5 RAM, and the grand total climbs to almost 2000 USD. And lastly, let's not discount the possibility of Nov 19 being just a paper launch (so add +6 months to availiability).
For 2k USD, I can assemble a system with [the least tacky] AM5 motherboard, an decent CPU and plenty of RAM (7950X + X670E-E + 2x32 GB DDR5) and still have money in the bank. I am starting to suspect the TRX50 is going to be merely an upsell proposition for the WRX90 platform, not really a spiritual successor to the legendary X99/X299.
Elsewhere, the situation currently isn't any better than it used to be and that is another surprise. Looking at the previous gen of Threadripper PRO, I can find the Asus WRX80 Sage motherboard for around 600 USD but the CPUs are just stupidly expensive - the cheapest I could find is 1100 USD for 5955wx and that is just 16 Zen3 cores - it's almost as expensive as the 7960X, so the value is clearly not there. 3955wx is almost as equally as expensive if not more expensive - and that is Zen 2 CPU, which makes my mind reel.
Looking at the AM5 plaform, I still am amazed at the irrationality of the motherboard layouts and the design choices. All of them are still bloated with junk as they were before - prices have gone down somewhat but not by much.
In the who-needs-it category (i.e. X670 chipset), there are plenty of contenders:
- every manufacturer is fixated at M.2 PCIe 5.0 slots as if everybody will be running pairs of Crucial T700 in RAID0 all the time,
- VRM phase count is just plain crazy (18+2 VRM power phases - 110A per phase!!). I guess everybody is running LN2 these days,
- external connectivity is just ridiculous. Asus Strix X670E-E has 22 USB3.2 port connections - twenty-two(!),
- WiFi 6E.
Unsurprisingly, the remaining PCIe ports are still manacled - the moment you put something in two ports, the number of lanes cuts in half.
All in all, with AM5 chipset, it looks like every manufacturer has their motherboard design team run by marketing instead of engineering. I still haven't seen a semi-reasonable design.
The one thing thing I haven't really looked at is the last-gen Epyc platforms - mostly because I have longevity concerns about cooling. The case I am currently running is Fractal Torrent and I prefer it run _very_ quiet as its sitting on the floor just next to me. Server components, OTOH, really like airflow.
I am still running an E5-2643 V3 six-core Xeon on X99 board but the platform is starting to show its age. I don't have a lot of complaints about the performance but the components may be nearing their lifetime - I am seeing more frequent need for restarts (strange errors and slowdowns that get fixed on reboot), and sometimes the machine just doesn't get past POST. Chasing down the root cause doesn't seem like a good investment of time or money.
My needs are still relatively simple: I'd be happy to have a platform for the next 8-9 years just like X99; a good CPU, 64 (or ideally 128) GB of RAM, a GPU (my 1080ti is currently sufficient), an Optane 905p and X520-DA2 NIC. If I can plug all of that in without hobbling the system [too much], I'd go for that. I don't care about overclocking, USB3/Thunderbolt connectivity, wifi and LED lights - just am looking for something that will do the job fast, quietly, stealthily and reliably.
I don't mind shelling out dollars for something that's going to serve me for a good part of the next decade but I can't see good value in neither TRX50 nor AM5. Intel platforms are just sad - the 14900 fiasco speaks for itself and the workstation platforms seem to offer less for the same money than AMD.
Am I missing something obvious? Where else should I look at? Any thoughts are appreciated.
Of course AM5 splits the lanes, it's 4 to chipset so thats 4 gone already
Another 4 to at least 1 5.0 SSD slots
And of course another 4 to the last slot on the board
Then what do you expect, 16+8 out of a 20 lane (minus the first M.2 and chipset) CPU?
At least they aren't trying to hook pcie lanes off the PCH because that really isn't real pcie lanes. You can try, but everything is fighting for bandwidth
Another 4 to at least 1 5.0 SSD slots
And of course another 4 to the last slot on the board
Then what do you expect, 16+8 out of a 20 lane (minus the first M.2 and chipset) CPU?
At least they aren't trying to hook pcie lanes off the PCH because that really isn't real pcie lanes. You can try, but everything is fighting for bandwidth
You're right - I thought that in a year's time there would be some other options but I can't see any. In the end, I would come to accept the x8/x8 or x8/x4/x4 on the 5.0/4.0 ports. It's not like anything in the next cca. 5 years is ever going to be using all that 5.0 bandwidth anyway (at least I am not seeing it). It's the inefficiency of all the other junk that I might as well toss in the rubbish bin that annoys me.
It looks like I might be clamping my nose and going AM5 after all. The TRX50 is looking like an upsell for WRX90 and AM5 is....AM5.
I didn't mean to rant - was just hoping to find some options I have overlooked in the past year.
It looks like I might be clamping my nose and going AM5 after all. The TRX50 is looking like an upsell for WRX90 and AM5 is....AM5.
I didn't mean to rant - was just hoping to find some options I have overlooked in the past year.
Threadripper is ridiculously overpriced. EPYC Rome or Milan could be a great option here. There are plenty of options for expansion and connectivity. Temperatures aren't an issue as long as cooling as sufficient. While idle, the EPYC 7402 in my PC is about 35 degrees Celsius, under load 55 degrees Celsius. Even with a TDP of 180 Watts, it runs much cooler than the current consumer grade chips. My workstation uses Be Quiet Dark Rock TR4 Pro coolers.
Grab a H11SSL or H12SSL, 7302P and 256G memory for $900-1200 and ride it out with the rest of us
No, EPYC platforms do not support sleep. I don't think it is a limitation of the processor itself, rather that no motherboard manufacturer has included that functionality.
S3/S4 is rare Workstation platform function, but it is not impossible.
just for knowlege:
surprisely ASUS Pro WS W790 Ace Sapphire Rapids LGA4677 DDR5-RDIMM supports S3/S4 sleep.
Just want to comment on this that the non-PRO TR 7000 will have 48 PCIe 5.0 lanes but also an additional
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Looks like there are at least 3 Supermicro TRX50 boards planned; look here. The individual product pages don't work yet but I'll take it as a semi-confirmation that they're coming.Fingers crossed for some TRX50 workstation boards