areca 188x vs 168x vs 128x

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dude05

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what is the difference?? will there is speed/performance difference?? if i want to get a 16/24 port internal raid card to give me min latency io performance, what model should i get? atto? areca? lsi?

thanks in advance. i am sort of newbie with a single 1882i with 8x4tb drives hooked to it. i want to increase my drive count and io performance.
 

BlueFox

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1280 series is first gen SATA and very old. Not recommended.
1284 series is second gen SATA and quite recent, but I've never seen anyone use them.
1680 series is SAS1 and quite old. Not recommended
1880 series is first gen SAS2. Still respectable.
1882 series is second gen SAS2. Quite fast.
1883 series is SAS3 and the current top of the line.

Pretty much newer = faster for the most part.

What I'd recommend is keeping the 1882i and getting a SAS expander. You'll be able to hook up more than 8 drives to your card then. Intel 24 port ones are about $200.
 
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dude05

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thanks for the quick response. i was wondering if there will be speed/performance issues. like say my current 1882i gives me abt 900-1100MB/sec on raid5. will i get somewhere near is i use 1880 or 1680??

i dont want to touch my current 1882i and want to build a new storage server on a budget. was curios to see what would be a cheaper solution than getting a 1882ix-16/24.
 

BlueFox

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No performance issues utilizing SAS expanders. The 12/16/24 port cards actually use them too, they're just integrated into the card.

The 1680/1880 are going to be slower than your 1882, but you're actually not hitting the performance limit of the card. With 8 hard drives, they're actually the limiting factor. All three cards are capable of at least ~1GB/s. Any of the 8 port cards + separate SAS expander will be cheaper than one of the 12/16/24 port cards generally.

If you're really budget conscious, a lot of the LSI cards are less expensive and offer similar performance. You'll just miss out on the out-of-band management (the ethernet port).
 

dude05

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my friend had a bit of a bad experience with an LSI with 24 hdds. which got me a bit skeptical aswell. the seller claimed 24 drives cannot be on raid5(22+2 hot spare) when it failed for the first time. then they switched it to raid6 and got a performance of 200MB/sec from 24 drives.then they switched it to 2x 8 drives raid 5 where performance went up to 900MB/sec for each. then 2 dayslater the raid card failed. they had toupgrade firmware. Currently speed is still a bit messy.

I am like i said sort of a newbie and my exxperiene is limited to the 8port.


How do i connect the sas expander to a 8i areca? plug in 2x 8087 to the sas expander?? I plan to run centos 7. will it play along nicely with areca 1882i??
 

BlueFox

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They probably had a very old LSI card. Modern Areca cards all use LSI chips you know. Performance is pretty similar between them these days.

As for connectivity, you just plug in either one or two 8087 cables from the RAID card to the expander and then the rest of the drives attach directly to it. The OS won't even know about the existence of the SAS expander, so you don't have to worry about compatibility there. Areca has Linux drivers, so you should be fine.
 

T_Minus

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At one point within ~5 years I had the bling most expensive $1k+ ARECA card w/4GB? cache... was NOT impressed at all. Not for that ridiculous amount of money, even with 8x SSD and the cache it was not impressive at all.

I would get a MUCH CHEAPER branded card from LSI or OEM equivalent (LSI) for literally a FRACTION of what ARECA wants.

$100 or less for LSI SAS3 HBA
$200 or less for LSI SAS3 RAID

Add-on another $150 or so for the capacitor / BBU.

A FRACTION of the cost of what an Areca card runs!


Just my 02
 

dude05

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They probably had a very old LSI card. Modern Areca cards all use LSI chips you know. Performance is pretty similar between them these days.

As for connectivity, you just plug in either one or two 8087 cables from the RAID card to the expander and then the rest of the drives attach directly to it. The OS won't even know about the existence of the SAS expander, so you don't have to worry about compatibility there. Areca has Linux drivers, so you should be fine.
Thanks BlueFox. They have lsi 3108 aoc inside supermicro 6048. and i think there was a sas expander as well. and the speed is still way bad. i have been asking them to get it replaced.|

If lsi, which models do you recommend for fastest rw over raid5 for 24bay??

Also suppose if i connect my 1882i to a 24 port sas expanded using 2x 8087, then i only get 16 ports out of the sas expander right? or is there additional incoming ports as well?

and if sas expander fails, can i just replace it and the raid will work fine as before?
 
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dude05

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I would get a MUCH CHEAPER branded card from LSI or OEM equivalent (LSI) for literally a FRACTION of what ARECA wants.
Just my 02
for most of my work, i need one that have drivers for osx. hence i had to resort to areca. and like my previous post says, my indirect experience with lsi hvnt been pleasant making me believe expensive is faster. I used to have an R380 hooked to a 8bay sonnet via minisas which used to give me 700-800 MB/sec. then i got 1882i and i gave me 900-1100MB/sec. the lsi so far been giving only 200MB/sec in best days. Ideally i need 1GB/sec or more. for the faster ones, i have a 4x1tb ssd raid but cant afford to do 4tb ssds for sure. :)
 

BlueFox

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Thanks BlueFox. They have lsi 3108 aoc inside supermicro 6048. and i think there was a sas expander as well. and the speed is still way bad. i have been asking them to get it replaced.|

If lsi, which models do you recommend for fastest rw over raid5 for 24bay??

Also suppose if i connect my 1882i to a 24 port sas expanded using 2x 8087, then i only get 16 ports out of the sas expander right? or is there additional incoming ports as well?

and if sas expander fails, can i just replace it and the raid will work fine as before?
Yes, if you connect, both cables, you'll only be able to hook up 16 disks to the expander. What you can do to get around that is to connect a single cable between the RAID card and expander, giving you 20 drives on the expander and then connect 4 to the other port on the RAID card for 24 total.

If SAS expander fails, you can just replace it. Same goes for the RAID card. All the metadata about the RAID array is stored on the drives.
 

dude05

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Yes, if you connect, both cables, you'll only be able to hook up 16 disks to the expander. What you can do to get around that is to connect a single cable between the RAID card and expander, giving you 20 drives on the expander and then connect 4 to the other port on the RAID card for 24 total.

If SAS expander fails, you can just replace it. Same goes for the RAID card. All the metadata about the RAID array is stored on the drives.
Thank you. So is it reasonable to assume that the speed out of the raid would be better if not worse?

suppose if i connect say 16 3.5 enterprise hdd to the sas expander, will i get abt 1500MB/sec over a raid5?

also can i switch raid cards? like replace an old atto 380 with a new areca and retain the data?
 

BlueFox

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The Areca card will top out at about that speed. You should look up some reviews to see exact numbers. You can switch RAID cards, but not between brands like that. If your Areca fails or you want to upgrade, you'd have to replace it with another Areca, LSI with LSI, etc.
 
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Angus

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I can say the Areca's that I've had experience with have been solid.. I still have a machine with a 1280 in it.. while not fast its been reliable for the last 5-6 years I've had it no issues at all.
 

dude05

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I can say the Areca's that I've had experience with have been solid.. I still have a machine with a 1280 in it.. while not fast its been reliable for the last 5-6 years I've had it no issues at all.
Am curious to knos how many drives u got ur 1280 hooked to? And what raid u hv and how much speed do u get out of it?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

BlueFox

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The 1280 will top out at about 750MB/s. Just remember that that model is 10 years old now and hasn't had any firmware updates in 6 years. I'd recommend against it.
 

dude05

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The 1280 will top out at about 750MB/s. Just remember that that model is 10 years old now and hasn't had any firmware updates in 6 years. I'd recommend against it.
not gonna buy. mostly curious to know the performance difference.

thanks for sharing
 

muhfugen

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I have an 1883ix-24-2GB and I've been disappointed with it for how expensive it was. I ended up getting a BBU and 8GB RAM, and along with the SAS cabling brought the total to about $1500. Both the BBU and RAM upgraded died with in a year. The RAM started frequently logging ECC errors in the web console, the BBU suffered intermittent errors in the console as well, when I removed it the battery was swollen.

3 of the channels coming from the SAS expander have started to suffer faults where disks on those channels will timeout for > 30 seconds once every couple days, causing the RAID 0 they were a part of to go offline. This started with a single channel and eventually progressed to 3, I at first started to think my SSDs were dying even though they had only 1% of their rated writes consumed, but moving them off ports 1-4 fixed the issue. When disks were connected to those failing ports, very frequently all 8 disk failure/identification lights on my SuperMicro M28SACB 2.5" disk backplane would come on. The SSDs were in a RAID 0 and used as a VMFS5 data store for VMware ESXi, and when this RAID went offline the Areca driver caused the ESXi host to purple screen. Reviewing the logs indicated the driver was broken:

WARNING: LinScsi: SCSILinuxProcessCompletions:920: Command 0x8a (0x439dd51705c0) to "vmhba1:C0:T0:L0" failed (looks like driver "arcmsr 1.30.00.02" is broken) with DID_BAD_TARGET - converting to DID_NO_CONNE

Their support was pretty useless, Areca's only response was have you tried the next version, because change logs or bug tracking databases apparently aren't a thing with them. I didn't really want to force my host to crash any more that it had, so I didnt do any further testing to see if the 1.30.00.03 driver fixed it. Both SuperMicro and Areca blamed each others products for all the failure lights turning on, no one knows who is causing it although i'd be inclined to believe SuperMicro and say the RAID card was doing so. Areca claimed their card will only flash the failure lights when you use the identify disk/enclosure command. And ever since i've had it, when writes occur on the SSDs occasionally the failure lights will flash ever so briefly for the related disk for a few milliseconds. Who knows why. This also ignores that no one at the company speaks english natively.

It is probably related to the SAS channel failures, but the expander on that chip is constantly overheating (>90°C). Due to PCIe slot arrangement on my SuperMicro X9DAE motherboard and that i'm running dual GPUs in SLI, I have to put the card is in the slot furthest the bottom of the chassis (SuperMicro SC743) and the little 40mm fan the card it is inadequate and is constantly getting clogged with dust. I eventually had to buy a fan controller so I could force the bottom 80mm chassis fan to run much faster than it would normally to keep the expander around 85°C. If you ran this in a data center where you could have the chassis fans on full blast and didnt have to deal with dust this wouldn't be a problem, but 80mm 6K RPM fans are loud and not something I would want to deal with at home.

The software itself is lacking, one of the major reasons I bought it is that it did full volume encryption which ESXi didn't do, and although you can create an encrypted volume through the web console, you can not download the encryption key through the web console and have to use a Windows or Linux command line program which is a hassle in virtualized environment. And although there is an option to use a password as the encryption key, this functionaly has never worked according to Areca, so you have to upload a key file via the web console every time the host reboots to unlock the volumes. I also have 8 HDDs in a RAID 6 attached to the card, and configured scheduled volume scrubbing, but for whatever reason it never runs automatically and once a month I have to log in and start it myself. The web console has no ability to authenticate against Active Directory, LDAP or RADIUS, and is so poorly written that it wont allow symbol characters in passwords. Its SMART reporting is limited to hand full of parameters, when I can see much more if the HDDs or SSDs are plugged in to a USB SATA dock. And the firmware for the expander can't be upgraded through the web console (although for the LSI 3108 RAID chip it can) and requires the use of a proprietary serial cable with a RJ-11 plug on one end.

From what i've read online RMAing these cards can be a nightmare, as they need to go back to Taiwan. Since i'm only using 16 of the 28 channels on the card right now ive havent bothered to RMA it since I dont want my system to be down for ~1 month.
 
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i386

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And ever since i've had it, when writes occur on the SSDs occasionally the failure lights will flash ever so briefly for the related disk for a few milliseconds. Who knows why.
I think this is a problem on supermicros side: I have a 836tq and two months ago the failed/overheat leds on the front started to blink when the disks where used.
The backplane is connected to a adaptec raid controller which didn't log any failures and reports all drives with the status normal.