850 PRO + Server 2012R2

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diegolrz

New Member
Jul 28, 2015
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Hi, I am looking for a RAID 1 controller for a Lenovo TS140 Xeon E-3. The OS is Server 2012R2 running Hyper-V role and I want to have a mirror to store the VMs.

Which card is recommended for this setup? I thought of LSI however the Samsung 850 PRO SSDs are not listed as compatible.

Another is option is doing software RAID with either Intel Rapid Storage, Storage Spaces or DrivePool ... any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
 

iq100

Member
Jun 5, 2012
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Question: For data protection needs is hardware based duplication best? Is there a controller or other way to provide all write traffic to a second SSD/Hard Drive? This would be at the cable/electrical level, not software. For SATA, SAS, NVME U.2 8639/Ultra M.2? Wouldn't cloning cable signals be better than using software RAID 1 processing cycles? Anyone willing to take a stab at this?
 
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Terry Kennedy

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Jun 25, 2015
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New York City
www.glaver.org
Question: For data protection needs is hardware based duplication best? Is there a controller or other way to provide all write traffic to a second SSD/Hard Drive? This would be at the cable/electrical level, not software. For SATA, SAS, NVME U.2 8639/Ultra M.2? Wouldn't cloning cable signals be better than using software RAID 1 processing cycles? Anyone willing to take a stab at this?
If you have a controller with "real" RAID (as opposed to "software RAID", "pseudo-raid", etc.) it should be able to transparently mirror drives. The only issue is that it will store some metadata on the drive, making the drives unusable (without extra work) on a controller from a different brand which can be a problem if the controller fails.

The overhead of even pure software RAID (no controller assistance at all) is pretty low on modern hardware - I have some ancient PowerEdge 750s which do OS-based mirroring with no noticeable performance penalty. The only issue is that since the computer's BIOS sees this as two separate drives, if the one that the BIOS boots from fails, you may (depending on the BIOS and drive failure mode) need to swap the drive cables so the system will be able to boot from the good drive. Consider ZFS raidz levels - that is all done in software, but sustained transfer rates measured in gigabytes/second are achievable.

You can't just connect cables together. Take SAS or SATA drives, for example. If you could connect two of them together, what happens when a utility requests SMART data from the drive? Different serial numbers, different statistics. And that's if you could overcome both drives responding at the same time and corrupting the response.

The closest that anything came to this would be SMD drives, which had a common 60-pin bus cable that was routed through all of the drives and 26-pin data cables which went from the controller to individual drives. But even that required some extra hardware on the controller to perform the mirroring. [The controller did it because in those days the controller had to emulate some manufacturer's subsystem, like a DEC RP06, so it could not act differently from the original.] And you needed 100% error-free packs (very unusual) for it to work. Going back even further, the interfaces were more primitive and more was done in the controller, which is why you couldn't cable the top and bottom of a dual drive like the Diablo 44 together at the head amps.
 

iq100

Member
Jun 5, 2012
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Thanks for your kind response, Terry.
Thinking out of the box, what if the 2nd device only connected to the write SATA/SAS pins? Would that provide hardware level clone with no software involvement/overhead? The primary device could happily provide any needed SMART info without involvement of the 2nd real time cloning device. Is there such a smart cable splitter which can split and drive the write pins' connection to a "silent" cloning device?
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If you have a controller with "real" RAID (as opposed to "software RAID", "pseudo-raid", etc.) it should be able to transparently mirror drives. The only issue is that it will store some metadata on the drive, making the drives unusable (without extra work) on a controller from a different brand which can be a problem if the controller fails.

The overhead of even pure software RAID (no controller assistance at all) is pretty low on modern hardware - I have some ancient PowerEdge 750s which do OS-based mirroring with no noticeable performance penalty. The only issue is that since the computer's BIOS sees this as two separate drives, if the one that the BIOS boots from fails, you may (depending on the BIOS and drive failure mode) need to swap the drive cables so the system will be able to boot from the good drive. Consider ZFS raidz levels - that is all done in software, but sustained transfer rates measured in gigabytes/second are achievable.

You can't just connect cables together. Take SAS or SATA drives, for example. If you could connect two of them together, what happens when a utility requests SMART data from the drive? Different serial numbers, different statistics. And that's if you could overcome both drives responding at the same time and corrupting the response.

The closest that anything came to this would be SMD drives, which had a common 60-pin bus cable that was routed through all of the drives and 26-pin data cables which went from the controller to individual drives. But even that required some extra hardware on the controller to perform the mirroring. [The controller did it because in those days the controller had to emulate some manufacturer's subsystem, like a DEC RP06, so it could not act differently from the original.] And you needed 100% error-free packs (very unusual) for it to work. Going back even further, the interfaces were more primitive and more was done in the controller, which is why you couldn't cable the top and bottom of a dual drive like the Diablo 44 together at the head amps.
 

Deslok

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2015
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deslok.dyndns.org
Thanks for your kind response, Terry.
Thinking out of the box, what if the 2nd device only connected to the write SATA/SAS pins? Would that provide hardware level clone with no software involvement/overhead? The primary device could happily provide any needed SMART info without involvement of the 2nd real time cloning device. Is there such a smart cable splitter which can split and drive the write pins' connection to a "silent" cloning device?
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That could cause issues if there was a failure on the non readable drive you could get data corruption due to a bad block and never know it until your primary failed at which point it'd be too late.
 

iq100

Member
Jun 5, 2012
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Good points, Deslok. Guess that is why there is no let's say "passive/pin level" disk cloning. I'll move on. Always thought bad block replacement was at SSD's controller firmware level and of no concern to interfacing/external to SSD systems.
 

Deslok

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Jul 15, 2015
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deslok.dyndns.org
Good points, Deslok. Guess that is why there is no let's say "passive/pin level" disk cloning. I'll move on. Always thought bad block replacement was at SSD's controller firmware level and of no concern to interfacing/external to SSD systems.
For SSD yes but not for mechanical, although an SSD can report bad blocks to the os as it ages.