ISP Nokia Fiber ONT and Local Vlans

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The14thPrime

New Member
Mar 9, 2024
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0
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How do people use L3 routing and switching VLANs with an ISP?

I contacted my ISP and was told that VLAN traffic would interfere with internet connectivity. Not completely sure, but it seems like the ONT uses a VLAN for connection to the ISP. The router I was given besides the ONT does not support VLAN traffic.

I was looking into getting a L3 router and L3 switch that supports VLANs to section off a game server on my network.

Lets say VLAN 5 is for servers, VLAN 10 is for my main pc and VLAN 15 is for the game server.
I want to only permit needed services on all of them. vlan 15 would only permit lets say Minecraft 25565 in.

Would the diagram work or is there another solution? Do I need additional hardware beyond a L3 router and L3 Switch to get this to work, or will it not work with VLANs?
 

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oneplane

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2021
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VLANs are L2, what you are doing is L3. You need both, or, enough interfaces and hardware to just have multiple physical networks.

VLANs only exist so you can have 1 physical network but multiple logical (virtual) networks. Those networks aren't IP-networks, just Ethernet networks.

The ONT doesn't need to know anything about your internal network, you're probably getting a single IPv4 address and maybe an IPv6 prefix and that's it. Most likely you're setting up a PPPoE connection or a DHCP client on a specific VLAN and that's it on the WAN side. None of that translates or relates to your internal networks.

Code:
                                  │                           
                                  │                           
                                  │                           
                                  │          Stuff you can control
  Stuff you cannot control        │                           
   (in residential cases)         │                           
                                  │                           
                                  │                           
┌────────────────────┐            │              ┌─────────────────┐
│                    │            │              │                 │
│   The Internet     │            │  Ethernet    │ Your network(s) │
│                    ◄────────────┼──────────────►                 │
│                    │            │              │                 │
└────────────────────┘            │              └─────────────────┘
                                  │                           
                                  │                           
                                  │                           
                                  │
On the internal side you might have multiple interfaces or VLANs, and you'd assign each a non-overlapping IPv4 range, generally in blocks that sit next to each other (often configured and known as subnets). You then run DNS and DHCP and NAT for those subnets, and use firewall rules to decide who gets to talk where.

If you don't have VLANs, it might look like this:

Code:
                                                   ┌────────────────────────┐          ┌──────────────┐
                                  Ethernet 1       │                        │          │              │
                                 ┌─────────────────►   Unmanaged switch    ─┼──────────► Server       │
                                 │                 │                        │          │              │
                                 │                 └────────────────────────┘          └──────────────┘
                                 │                                                                  
Internet      ┌──────────────────┴──┐                                                              
(WAN)         │                     │                                                              
    ──────────►  Gateway / Router   │              ┌────────────────────────┐                      
              │    and Firewall     │Ethernet 2    │                        │         ┌─────────────┐
              │                     ├──────────────►  Unmanaged Switch      ├─────────►             │
              └──────────────┬──────┘              │                        │         │   PC        │
                             │                     └────────────────────────┘         └─────────────┘
                             │                                                                      
                             │                                                                      
                             │                     ┌────────────────────────┐                      
                             │  Ethernet 3         │                        │        ┌──────────────────┐
                             └─────────────────────►  Unmanaged Switch      ├────────►                  │
                                                   │                        │        │  Guests          │
                                                   └────────────────────────┘        │                  │
                                                                                     └──────────────────┘
Your router/gateway/firewall has multiple separate ethernet interfaces, and you configure each of them to be separate. On each of those you connect a network switch so you can connect more than 1 device to them. The network switches are simple switches that have no clue about the network (including no clue about VLANs or subnets or IP addresses). The problem here is that you need to buy a switch for every separate network. But it works and doesn't require you do know anything about configuring switches.

Adding VLANs, it will then look like this:


Code:
                                                        ┌─────────────────┐            ┌──────────────┐
                                                        │                 │            │              │
                                                        │         VLAN10  ├────────────► Server       │
                                                        │                 │            │              │
                                                        │                 │            └──────────────┘
                                                        │   Managed       │                         
Internet      ┌─────────────────────┐                   │    Network      │                         
(WAN)         │                     │                   │   Switch        │                         
    ──────────►  Gateway / Router   │                   │                 │                         
              │    and Firewall     │Ethernet 1         │                 │           ┌─────────────┐
              │                     ├───────────────────►         VLAN11  ├───────────►             │
              └─────────────────────┘VLAN 10, 11 and 12 │                 │           │   PC        │
                                                        │                 │           └─────────────┘
                                                        │                 │                         
                                                        │                 │                         
                                                        │                 │                         
                                                        │                 │          ┌──────────────────┐
                                                        │          VLAN12 ├──────────►                  │
                                                        │                 │          │  Guests          │
                                                        │                 │          │                  │
                                                        │                 │          └──────────────────┘
                                                        └─────────────────┘
Note that all of this happens on your side of the network, the ISP doesn't relate to any of this, they can't see it or interact with it. The switch connects to your router/gateway/firewall, and the connection at the firewall is setup to pretend there are 3 networks on that port. The switch does the same on its side, so now that single ethernet cable can transport 3 virtual cables.

Then, the devices you connect to the switch will access a different network based on how you setup the switch. So the top port, you might configure it to only access VLAN 10. The server doesn't need to know about it, it just plugs into the port. It doesn't need to know about it, because it only needs to access one network (VLAN number 10) so nothing fancy required.

A complete example with tables and everything was already posted a bunch of time on this forum, so you can re-use that if you need more details.
 
Last edited:

mattventura

Active Member
Nov 9, 2022
447
217
43
Your diagram should work fine. The only thing to be careful of is that some ISPs might actually use VLANs on the WAN side (even if your router hides it from you) to separate out internet, phone, TV, etc.

In some cases, you can even use your own transceiver and skip the ONT entirely.
 
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