Router upgrade recomendation

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Edvar

New Member
Jan 30, 2024
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Hi,
After the latest ISP upgrade (1gbps UP/Down) I got a need to upgrade my 10 year old router (mikrotik RB2011) to something with more power.
Home network is Unifi based (switched and AP's).
After a quick look around i think about couple of options:
1) Stay with mikrotik and get something like RB5009UG+S+IN (MikroTik)
2) get Unifi gateway/router. not sure if UniFi Express (UniFi Express - Ubiquiti Store Europe) or DreamRouter (UniFi Dream Router - Ubiquiti Store Europe) will be able to handle this, or should i look already at Dream Machine Pro (Dream Machine Pro - Ubiquiti Store Europe)
3) Or get a new fanless pc like recently reviewed Qotom Q20332G9-S10 (https://www.servethehome.com/the-ev...outer-and-nas-appliance-qotom-qnap-teamgroup/) to run pfsense/opensense or untangle
4) get a used micro pc with multiple ports, like Lenovo P330 with 4 port card

What would be your recommendation?
 
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blunden

Active Member
Nov 29, 2019
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The Unifi Express might work if you don't need to use it as a VPN client. The Unifi Dream Router is a definite no as it's not fast enough, even though I think it has a very similar SoC. The original UDM (non-Pro) was significantly faster. The UDM Pro is overkill, as it's closer to 3-4 Gbit/s with IDS/IPS and close to 10 Gbit/s without it.

The 12 year old EdgeRouter Lite handles it fine with hardware offloading. Sadly we don't see any new products released in that product line.

The Qotom is also overkill as it's closer to a 10 Gbit/s router if you get one of the higher end models. It would certainly work though, although the idle power draw (in the 18-20W range if I'm not mistaken) might be a bit high if you're just looking for 1 Gbit/s. Its power draw is probably lower than those used mini/micro-PCs though. :) I have a Qotom Q20332G9-S10 that I intend to use as a multi-gig router, so I'd say the hardware itself seems pretty nice so far.

The Mikrotik would also work, but is also probably overkill.
 
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Gerhen

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Nov 29, 2023
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Hi @Edvar what else are you looking to do that you can’t do today? That might help steer your decision.

In terms of speed, 1Gbps isn’t too demanding unless your ISP uses PPPOE?

Also keep in mind you won’t exactly hit 1Gbit out of 1Gbit Ethernet interfaces but should get close at around 900Mbit. If you’re looking to squeeze every bit of juice and hit 1G you’ll need 2.5 or 10G interfaces.

If your use cases hasn’t changed try sticking with what you got. It quickly gets expensive when you chase speed. I recently went from 400Mbit to 1.5Gbit and it required a lot of changes ☺
 

Edvar

New Member
Jan 30, 2024
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Current setup is not able to use bandwidth with all the setup, max thru put is close to 400 mbits (firewall, queues, QoS), and Mikrotik profiler shows 100% load on cpu. I know spending some time and optimizing stuff might get it more thruput, but looking at the specs of rb2011 it shows that routing with 25 rules is max 689 mbits. So i guess something with more umph is needed :)
The ISP is evil :) For extra 3 euros a month upgraded from 250/250 to 1024/1024
 
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Gerhen

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Nov 29, 2023
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I think the Mikrotik option would be good in terms of its something you already know and will get you the speed.

The unifi option could be more expensive and functionality as a router/firewall will be more constrained (to the functionality ubiquiti offers) but could make sense if you’re after having a consistent network experience at home. Also if you’re looking to get into cameras there’s that too.

The pfsense/opnsense option will be the most flexible but will require more time to setup and learn where everything is. I will say once you’re up and running the incremental upgrades are easy. I ran opnsense on the same pcengines box from 2017 nonstop up to this past weekend and kept up with the software updates. The only downtime I saw was for the few minutes when the updates were applied. Was happy to get 6+ years out of the same box and if I didn’t upgrade speed it would have kept going!
 

mattlach

Active Member
Aug 1, 2014
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As just a router/firewall, gigabit WAN is fairly light load. No need to go crazy.

If you want to do traffic shaping or VPN on the router - however - it can get pretty heavy.

I'm a huge fan of using custom hardware with (historically) pfSense or (currently) OPNSense, but there are many many options.
 

Tech Junky

Active Member
Oct 26, 2023
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@Edvar

Go with the fanless if you want lower power and a sleek box but, the ports on it aren't upgradable w/o swapping the whole chassis.

Go SFF PC is you want somewhat low power draw but the option to upgrade the ports later on.

I went a step further and built an ATX box that is the router and all of the networking aspects but also rolled in additional functions like NAS / OTA / AP / etc. This allows some consolidation and reduced the bottleneck potential for other services. It also removed the need for a power strip and additional ports for devices to connect to the network. It just kind of depends on how many wired devices you have that could be wireless and if you see your ISP speeds going up again for another $3/mo to get to 2.5gbps or 5gbps. Maybe jump to 10GE for $10/mo or whatever they decide down the road.
 

mattlach

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Aug 1, 2014
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@Edvar

Go with the fanless if you want lower power and a sleek box but, the ports on it aren't upgradable w/o swapping the whole chassis.

Go SFF PC is you want somewhat low power draw but the option to upgrade the ports later on.

I went a step further and built an ATX box that is the router and all of the networking aspects but also rolled in additional functions like NAS / OTA / AP / etc. This allows some consolidation and reduced the bottleneck potential for other services. It also removed the need for a power strip and additional ports for devices to connect to the network. It just kind of depends on how many wired devices you have that could be wireless and if you see your ISP speeds going up again for another $3/mo to get to 2.5gbps or 5gbps. Maybe jump to 10GE for $10/mo or whatever they decide down the road.

So, I'm a little nuts when it comes to this stuff, but here is what I did a few years ago:

  • Consumer Mini-ITX board (find one with dual Gigabit Intel NIC's*, in my case Asrock H270M-ITX/ac, but this is a while ago, you'll want something newer.)
  • Lower power CPU (I went with an i3-7100 which is both reasonable power wise, but has enough brute force (on only two cores) to handle some serious OpenVPN challenges)
  • Small m.2 drive for booting
  • Smallest amount of RAM I could buy while still going dual channel
  • Mini-Box 60w Pico PSU Bundle
  • Mini-Box M350 super-compact case
  • pfSense

*avoid Realtek or really any other brand. Also avoid multigig. You really want older on board i210 or i211 NIC's. These things are bullet-proof from a reliability perspective and always capable of maximizing transfers per the gigabit spec. Intels newer multigig models are really hit or miss, and Realtek, just no. In a pinch Broadcoms NetXTreme series of NIC's will do too, but you don't usually find those on board on consumer motherboards.

1706652058254.png1706652066677.png

(representative pics of case, not mine)

The Pico-PSU's are amazing. Not only are they very efficient and reliable, they are also very tiny. I had this thing at single digit watts as measured at the wall using my Kill-A-Watt when pfSense was idle. Very efficient.

1706652645529.png

They are essentially a tiny 12V AC to AC PSU that sits on the ATX connector and hooks up to an external 12V power brick. (You'll need a 4pin or 8pin motherboard power adapter unless you go with the bigger model that comes with it)

Intel box cooler that came with the i3-7100 I used just barely fit inside that M350 case.

1706652718534.png

Reasonably quiet too.

The i3-7100 was admittedly total overkill for a router (it really doesn't take much, most people use Atom CPU's) but I wanted the option to max out my connection over OpenVPN on the router, which this handled quite nicely. I don't think I've ever seen a CPU utilization readout over ~11-12% even at max speed test.

It was a great little router box with surprisingly high capability. I've used it on on Gigabit Verizon FiOS for years without a problem. As mentioned I can even push OpenVPN at or near full gigabit speeds (as long as I'm not limited on the other end, which usually is the case.)



Then about 3 years ago, I decided I wanted to stick it in my rack, and didn't want it just all ghetto sitting on a rack shelf, so I got a good deal on a used 2U case (iStarUSA D-214-MATX, not my favorite case of all time, but it was a good deal and it works) and transplanted the whole thing into it.

1706653308242.png

For shits and giggles, since I had a spare one kicking around, I also installed an Intel x520 dual SFP+ 10gig network adapter. I had accidentally bought too many during a previous project. Totally did not need it, but if you have it, why not use it?

Never mind the busy cables on the left. That was a since abandoned "for fun" experiment. I wanted to see if I could use a "redundant PSU adapter" with two PicoPSU's to get redundant PSU's.

The interesting part is it worked. I just decided I didn't need it. Who knows how long term reliable something like that is though. Not sure I'd recommend it for anyone else. I was just curious.




My latest stage is moving the router to actual server hardware.

It had a random issue the other day, and during the troubleshoot and reboot which fixed it, I found myself wishing it had IPMI/BMC like my big server. I had always wanted to move it to proper server hardware, so I hopped on eBay.

This time around I'm replacing the innards with:

  • Supermicro X12STL-F LGA1200 Rocket Lake Xeon E-23xx motherboard. (best balance between cost, and relatively recent, so it is lower power)
  • Cheapest CPU that goes in that socket, while still being a Xeon (Xeon E-2314) This is even more overkill than the i3-7100 was, but c'est la vie A little overkill never hurt anyone I guess. If there were a lesser model I would have bought it, but there isn't.
  • 16GB (2x8GB of DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMMS). Again, total overkill, but 8GB is apparently the smallest you can get now, and I didn't want to sacrifice the dual channel controller by going with just one stick of RAM.
  • Two spare 256GB Inland premium NMVe drives I had kicking around from previous upgrades. (Plan is to mirror them in ZFS for more resiliency)
  • New low profile cooler (in case this CPU runs too hot for the intel box cooler) I went with an ID Cooling IS-55 Black, as it was really cheap and reviews very well.
  • Also needed a PCIe to m.2 adapter, as this board only has one m.2 port

Here we are doing some burn-in-stability testing before the heart transplant into the 2U case.

1706654075202.png

The cooler is awesome, quiet and very effective. In this bench test, the only noise I hear is the little fan in the ancient Antec 150W PSU, which is only used for testing. Unlike other Xeon motherboards, this motherboard takes standard LGA 115x/1200 coolers, which gave me lots of flexibility and I landed on this amazing little cooler. Only 55mm tall with fan installed.

It wouldn't have fit in the little M350 case, but it will fit with plenty of space to spare in the 2U case.

One thing I noticed is that the m.2 slot on this X12STL-F motherboard is pretty bad. It is routed off of the chipset, and cant even keep up with its rated 4x Gen3 speeds. The other identical NVMe drive in a PCIe slot with an adapter is much faster. So, I have decided to get a second adapter, since they are cheap, and I have a spare 8x PCIe slot anyway.

This will be fun when it all comes together. I'll post pics if anyone is curious.

I am also considering migrating from pfSense to OPNSense, but that is going to be much more work and downtime on my complex network setup. I'll have to decide if I want to do that.
 
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Tech Junky

Active Member
Oct 26, 2023
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avoid multigig
I agree RTL can be a bit of an issue as I had to block the r8168 driver to get the system to use the updated r8169 instead to get the port working o n one of my mobo but, in general mgig works just fine with a decent card. I use a QNAP quad 5GE card and have zero issues with it. Now that I've gotten a bit pickier for high speed copies I just use TB and get 3X the transfer speed I would over Ethernet.

OpenVPN at or near full gigabit speeds (as long as I'm not limited on the other end, which usually is the case.)
I can't picture that actually happening. When I was doing VPN testing OVPN always capped off at 600mbps while WG hits wirespeeds beyond 1gbps with ease as it spawns additional instances as BW rises.

Either way there are plenty of options to DIY a router and the approach varies dependent on needs / wants.

idn't want to sacrifice the dual channel controller by going with just one stick of RAM.
Beyond DC having redundant RAM makes life easier if one fails you're not completely down.

routed off of the chipset, and cant even keep up with its rated 4x Gen3 speeds.
AMD plays this game beyond the chipset since the uplink is capped at x4 but, it's Gen4 but, Intel beats them with an x8 through current DMI. it's all a bit of a mess when it comes to wanting to use the fastest possible options on the market if you don't scope out the specs closely.