Wondering if I'm crazy or this VMware setup is possible....?

SNY

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Aug 26, 2016
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To put this question bluntly: I am trying to run an add-to-cart service for a product that is in high demand and low supply.

I do not want to outsource proxies and cloud storage/servers to other companies, I rather do it myself.

I'm not super experienced with servers but I've taken a CISCO CCNA crash course before so I kinda understand the basics of running a virtual machine on a server.

What I want to do, long story short, is put together a server machine from scratch that can run Windows Server 2012 R2 and a open source Virtual Machine software.

I want the server machine to have this OS and run the VMWARE, but here is the difficult part: I want the machine to be able to have multiple users access their own virtual sessions at the same thing.

This is because on the release day of the product, I want them to be able to access the Virtual Machine all at the same time using TeamViewer which will be installed on the Virtual OS.

I also want them to be able use a VPN or proxy software to use Google Chrome to add a product to their cart.

Is this possible? Is there some fundamental concept that I'm missing? Will this be possible for exactly 1,000 people? How much RAM and HDD space will I need? Is the set-up below okay for this?

OS: Windows Server 2012 R2

HDD: Seagate 3TB Desktop SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache ST3000DM001

Server-class Motherboard: Intel Server Board SSI ATX Motherboard DBS1400FP4

RAM: 8 x 8 GB of RAM

CD/DVD-ROM: Asus Drw-24B1st Black SATA 24x DVD Burner OEM

Power Supply: iStarUSA TC-1U30FX8 20+4 Pin

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GT 720 DirectX 12 O1G-P3-2722-KR

CASE: Cosair Carbide Series Clear 400C Compact Mid-Tower Case (comes with PC Fan)

Thank you so much, I look forward to your responses!
 

NetWise

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Jun 29, 2012
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So you want to run RDSH sessions, on a single host, 1000 users, on one SATA disk and no RAID, caching, or SSD's? In 64gb of RAM?

Or are you looking to run a web server that up to 1000 people will connect to?

In either event, in the nicest way possible, this sounds like it may be past your skill set, based on the questions. It's possible to do this, but not with this setup. And there's a lot of things to clarify.

I don't see why you'd be looking to use team viewer as you're going to need RDS CAL's based on what you can do here.


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SNY

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Yes, I want to run RDSH sessions with at least 500-1000 users. What setup would I require (I noticed you mentioned that I am missing multiple hosts, SATA disks, a RAID, caching and SSD and that I need more RAM)?

What is the difference between TeamViewer and RDS CAL? Can you clarify the difference between running a web server for 1000 people to connect and use vs. running RDSH sessions on multiple hosts for multiple users?
 

SNY

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Aug 26, 2016
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So you want to run RDSH sessions, on a single host, 1000 users, on one SATA disk and no RAID, caching, or SSD's? In 64gb of RAM?

Or are you looking to run a web server that up to 1000 people will connect to?

In either event, in the nicest way possible, this sounds like it may be past your skill set, based on the questions. It's possible to do this, but not with this setup. And there's a lot of things to clarify.

I don't see why you'd be looking to use team viewer as you're going to need RDS CAL's based on what you can do here.


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Essentially I want something similar to this Sneaker Server
 

Keljian

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In a nutshell, what you're being told is that you will need more hardware to support what you're trying to do.
You will need a cluster (>1 machine), much more in the way of storage speed and capacity and more ram.

This is bordering on the limits of what I know, but I would suspect you will likely need :
1. about 2-4 gig of ram per user (>3,000gig of ram across multple nodes)
2. about 30 gig of storage per user (ideally on SSDs) - 30-40 TB
3. an amount of CPU power provisioned (100-300mhz?) per user (300,000 mhz, or 300ghz worth of processor power across multiple cpus)
4. Networking for the cluster at high speed (40gbps or more aggregate bandwidth to the outside world) (40gbps/1000 = 40mbit per user)
5. Storage speeds that can hit >40gbit or above 4 gigabytes a second, plus handle the iops you're talking about.
6. Some kind of backup solution
7. Some fault tolerance in the cluster
8. UPS to stop the stuff from going down with power outages

Considering your level of expertise, I would suggest that you may be better off outsourcing the requirements/build
 
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NetWise

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Might not be 30gig per user, if it's RDSH 1:Many vs 1:1 desktops, but that's hard to know without an assessment.

Basically, you're looking to do a 1000 user VDI implementation. The kind that usually would use all flash arrays and clusters and such. I don't know that I'd try a lot more than 50 users per RDSH machine, but that really depends on compute available. It's just where I like to start spreading load anyway.

Part of the reason the Sneaker Server servers are special is that they list themselves as 1ms away from Nike's datacenters - you don't mention WHAT your add to cart service is for, but I assume for purchasing limited edition shoes when they release (SMH, but hey, we all have things we like). So on top of everything else that's wrong here, you're very likely going to want massive, low latency, near to your destination server, bandwidth. So as in real estate, "location, location, location" is going to matter.

In a web server for 1000 people, you're expecting to serve pages - static or dynamic, with database connectivity, to the world. In RDSH, you're going to provide them a full desktop, with keyboard/mouse/video/audio/process execution, etc. They don't even get discussed in the same sentence really, they're so drastically different.
 
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Patrick

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I would tend to agree. If you want that many virtual desktops that is going to be a fairly significant undertaking in terms of gear and licenses.

Now - if you are simply trying to allow people to have a close proxy to a server, that is something completely different. We may need more information on what you are trying to accomplish in order to help.

  • 1000 VDI users my guess is that you are using at least an entire rack, spending tens of thousands (minimum) on servers and licenses.
  • 1000 VPN users you can probably do with a handful of servers but that is also going to depend on the bandwidth and such (bandwidth cost is likely to be the cost driver not the server hardware).
  • 1000 users on a web page is a single server or perhaps two for redundancy. No need for VDI/ windows licensing.
Another key question is do you know how you are going to automate provisioning? 1000 users and you will go crazy if you are not automated.
 
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SNY

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I've taken into account how many people I want on the server after all of your advice and tried to do a little research of my own.

Would the following be affordable and possible?

What if I had one VMware cluster running Linux offering VDI to only 75 users?
 

gbeirn

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Jun 23, 2016
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I'll take a stab at this. I'm guessing you want people in say 'Country X' (or geographic region) to be able to purchase a product not normally available there but instead is available in 'Country Y' (or geographic region). That's the VPN reason I assume?

If it's something along these lines, VPN is going to be the easiest and cheapest to setup.

Everyone else is correct in what you'd need to accomplish this with Windows RDP. Very $$. Team viewer won't work unless you want all users seeing the exact same screen and only one person being able to check out.

VPN would allow what I think you want to do. You'll need more of a beefier Internet Connection on the VPN server than anything else.
 

NetWise

Active Member
Jun 29, 2012
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Edmonton, AB, Canada
Certainly plausible. I got the impression from the Sneaker Server site linked to that it may be more about proximity to the seller than country/location exclusivity. Shorter RTT/latency and all that. In any event, specific low latency/high speed is much harder to pull off as we all know.

I don't even know what kind of link or hardware you'd need to pull off 1000 potential VPN's at once. While I've worked for 1000-3000+ User companies, I'd highly doubt anyone ever expected more than 5-10% at any given time to be connected...


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