What about Backblaze storage pods?

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jcl333

Active Member
May 28, 2011
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Hello,

I searched around a bit here, and they have been mentioned here a couple of times in passing, but I haven't seen anyone talk seriously about building one. To those unfamiliar, here is the info:

The original "open" build from the Backblaze cloud provider:
http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/

More details:
http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/10/07/backblaze-storage-pod-vendors-tips-and-tricks/

This is the 2.0 version, a 3.0 version is coming...
http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/

Here is what Netflix built based on inspiration from Backblaze:
https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect/hardware

Someone who built a media server using one:
http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/10/1...edia-server-based-on-a-backblaze-storage-pod/
http://extrememediaservers.blogspot.com/

Here is a very "objective" viewpoint on building one:
http://bioteam.net/2011/08/why-you-should-never-build-a-backblaze-pod/

Now, here is my take on it:

* The design specifically addresses two key areas:
1 Using consumer drives
2 The disk vibration issue with large numbers of disks in close proximity
> neither the Supermicro nor Norco cases specifically tackle vibration, that I know of

* They use a pure SATA design, so no SATA emulation over SAS
> I found these two guides very enlightening:
http://www.nex7.com/readme1st
http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide

* Very easy to keep quiet, their fan solution is good even with just 2 fans let alone the six they allow for

* The SATA port multipliers are a very cheap and easy solution compared to some of the SAS HBA and expander solutions I see
> You would likely not have the bandwidth to put SSDs on them, but for hardrives that can't saturate that anyways it is fine
> SSDs could go on their own dedicated non-multiplier ports

Now, before you guys chop me to pieces:
* I know there are lots of success stories with the Norco and Supermicro here, doesn't mean it not a problem, but a consideration
* As the information points out, your use case matters allot
* Yes, the case alone is twice the cost of the Norco, but also holds almost twice as many disks

The downsides I see:
* Unless you buy the *expensive* just-add-disks version, it requires some DIY knowhow
* The power supply(ies) issue needs to be addressed if you using one pod instead of many

Looking over this information, it just got me thinking that with all the knowledge and talent on this forum, it would be really cool if we croud-sourced our own "STH custom design", made it open, and similarly upgraded it over time.

Just a thought.

-JCL
 

gigatexal

I'm here to learn
Nov 25, 2012
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alexandarnarayan.com
my question is regarding the integrity or reliablity of all those drives split by backplanes. the fact that they shoved so many drives into a case with all those backplanes is fantastic. how it all works is still a bit hazy to me
 

PigLover

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Jan 26, 2011
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They are designed to be complete appliances with their primary driver being operating expense. The "pod" is built with custom parity protection software - a "raid-like" solution that can tolerate the loss of several drives. In Backblaze's application they also replicate across pods. When a drive in a pod fails they ignore it, saving massive labor expense running around fixing failed drives. When too many drives in the same pod fail they just pull the whole pod and take it to an off-site repair facility for refurb (ok - at backblaze "offsite" means the next room - but you get the idea).

For the netflix ISP-CDN pod the ISP just returns the whole POD to Netflix and Netflix sends them a new one (most ISPs in the program keep several CDN pods in service so losing one is just a loss of redundancy). Each Netflix pod contains the entire Netflix library.

In both cases they have a primary design goal driving their implementation. Its a design goal that I don't think very many storage hobbyists or SOHO users share.
 

Patrick

Administrator
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Dec 21, 2010
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So really interesting. I need to reconnect with these guys (and the Netflix guys)

Once you get right down to it, the cost is very similar to a double-sided Supermicro. IIRC the setup uses SATA port multipliers also.

One other thing is that the real cost of the unit is much higher in lower quantities. I tried sourcing one but saw the same.

Now, one of the ideas I was toying with is using Dell/ HP/ Supermicro or etc backplanes with controller connectors parallel to the PCB to build something similar with much less wiring and fewer components. One really cool thing with this approach is that you could probably mix 2.5" rows with 3.5" rows in the same enclosure.
 

Patrick

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Dec 21, 2010
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jcl333: Here is another interesting option. Just found this one. Dell J23C - 2U 23 drives (front and back loading) - $750 OBO and the seller has taken at least two offers.
 

jcl333

Active Member
May 28, 2011
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Piglover,

I am certainly not saying I would implement this as-is, I would be doing ZFS or other things for the drive/data redundancy, using different power supplies, etc.

I am just wondering if anyone sees merit in this over the Norco or Supermicro route.

-JCL
 

jcl333

Active Member
May 28, 2011
253
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jcl333: Here is another interesting option. Just found this one. Dell J23C - 2U 23 drives (front and back loading) - $750 OBO and the seller has taken at least two offers.
Do you have any experience with these? They are interesting, but I have not used Dell hardware in years. I could not find them anywhere on Dell's site, I wonder how old they are.

-JCL
 

Patrick

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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Do you have any experience with these? They are interesting, but I have not used Dell hardware in years. I could not find them anywhere on Dell's site, I wonder how old they are.

-JCL
No experience. Just another way to get density. Backblaze pods are expensive.

that dell setup would be annoying right in a rack? You'd have to go to either end of the rack to service the drives
Yes. You also need to do this for the dual sided SM units. Backblaze units I believe you need to pull them out and the cover off to service drives.

Not saying that is a perfect solution, but at small quantities other options are much less expensive and work ok.
 

RimBlock

Active Member
Sep 18, 2011
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Singapore
Now, one of the ideas I was toying with is using Dell/ HP/ Supermicro or etc backplanes with controller connectors parallel to the PCB to build something similar with much less wiring and fewer components. One really cool thing with this approach is that you could probably mix 2.5" rows with 3.5" rows in the same enclosure.
Great minds and all that...

I have also been playing around with this idea for a while now as well and was looking at the HP 5 drive backplanes or Intel 4/6 drive server cage backplanes. I even got a couple of the 4 drive cages when they were going very cheap on Amazon. One concern was any custom connectivity the server manufacturers use for either power of SAS / SATA connectivity. The HP ML350 G5 backplanes are readily available quite cheaply on EBay but use the older SFF-8484 connectors and 8pin power connectors.

The drive cages I have from Intel are fine but have custom mounting so I would need to build a custom chassis to hold them or just remove the backplanes. Unfortunately materials and space is not readily available where I am to do this sort of work myself so I was looking at Protocase who do the BackBlaze chassis but shipping to me is very expensive in low quantities.

The other thin is that a lot of the backplanes have drive and power connectors on the rear meaning that if you mount them so the drives are vertical, there needs to be an inch or two under the backplane for the cables and sockets to connect.

Without digging in to the details, the Supermicro backplane here seems to be a reasonible contender at only US$45 / unit.

Needless to say it has not moved much further but it may be an interesting project for ServerTheHome and one I would be happy to be part of.

RB
 
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