Vmware server for small office

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Andreas1138

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Apr 2, 2016
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Hey guys,
I need your help. A client of mine has a server with these specifications:
  • Fujitsu Primergy RX300 S6
  • Intel Xeon X5660
  • 12GB of RAM
  • VMware 4.1
  • 2 VMs (Windows Server 2003 and Windows 7)
I need to find a second server in case the first one stops to work. They don't need a lot of power: I checked the performances on VMware ESXI and they had about 800MHz of CPU usage and 6 out of 12 GB of RAM occupied. There are about 10 clients connected to this server.

Since they had a computer with a Quad Core i5 CPU and 8 GB of RAM, I installed VMware Player and copied the VMs from the server and turned them on from this PC (after turning them off from the main server). The office didn't notice any differences in performances.

At first I was looking at the Intel NUC. The NUC can be an interesting choice since it's already compatible with VMware and can be put on a small closet, so the client doesn't need to spend a lot of money on a rack. The current NUC supports up to 32GB, which can be useful if I want to add other VMs, but I read a lot of problems related to the "WHEA error". I am not comfortable about that. The old generation (5th) supports up to 16Gb which is enough, but I am worried that one day they won't be enough.

I was looking at some mini itx solution, I can build it myself (to have some fun), but it's hard to find a mini itx mainboard that supports 32GB of RAM and VMware.

What's your suggestion? Took a risk and buy the NUC 6th generation or find a mini itx solution? Can you suggest a motherboard that supports vmware and where I can install VMware ESXi 5.5 or 6?

Otherwise I'll buy a 5th generation NUC with these specs:
  • NUC5i5RYH or NUC5I7RYH
  • i5 dual core processor (not powerful enough for a server, considering my needs?) or i7
  • 16GB of RAM
  • M.2 SSD 60GB to install VMware ESXi (is it compatible?)
  • 500GB SSD to store the VMs
Thank you for your time and patience.

Additional information:

I have an ASUS Pro 810 to conduct some tests. It's a mini PC.
It has an i3 4150T CPU and I equipped it with 16GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. I installed VMware ESXi 6.0 and created two VMs (Windows Server 2016 technical preview and Windows 7). The server didn't look very smooth. but I think it was because of the old 2,5" 5400RPM hard drive, which is a little bit slow.
 
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CreoleLakerFan

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Avotons come in Mini-ITX flavors that can take up to 64GB of RAM. Xeon-D's can take up to 128GB.

Budget?
 

vsxi-13

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I'm assuming they're just using the free hypervisor and nothing else? If so, then worrying about a support contract and hardware on the HCL is not a problem. It's not cost effective to get the Avoton's to 64GB of RAM, you would be better off going with an Xeon-E3 v5 line for that. Personally, I would build something that has some server features (IPMI) so you don't have to go onsite to troubleshoot problems.

If you want to get something that potentially could last them 10+ years, I would go with
Supermicro X10SDV-4C+-TP4F Embedded Processor. 4 cores, 8 threads, up to 128 GB of RAM. Has built in raid controller so you can setup a raid 1 configuration with disks for safety.

Start with a 16GB Dimm and that will allow them to easily scale to 64 GB of RAM if need be. Probably could keep the cost under 1000 dollars very easily.

I am pretty sure this board is on the HCL as well, if/when that matters.
 

pricklypunter

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Nov 10, 2015
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You didn't mention storage requirements, but so far it doesn't sound like you need much at all. If that's the case, I would save myself the headache and just buy a small secondhand server with 16 or 32GB of RAM, a respectable CPU and space for a couple of 3.5" disks and maybe a slim DVD etc. For example, I have a little R210 II 1U server that is amazingly quiet in use, even when pushed fairly hard and would easily fill the role you have in mind. Mine has a Xeon 1220v2 but there are other CPU options too, like an i3 variant etc. They also come with internal USB ports for booting your Hypervisor etc. If you can find one reasonably cheap with the remote management card (idrac6?) already fitted even better. Fling some decent disks in it and away you go. It's half depth and built like a tank and can easily sit on a shelf in a cupboard out the way :)
 

Andreas1138

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@CreoleLakerFan
I found this one that seems interesting. I am not an expert on Atom processors, but I think they don't consume a lot, but I hope they can deliver good performances for my needs. I made a comparison with the i7 5557U from Intel NUC and according to cpuboss the i7 is superior, but it has less cores.
About the budget: 700 - 800€. It's not a lot, I know.

Thank you for your reply.

@vsxi-13
Yes, free Hypervisor. The supermicro seems a great choice, but I can0t find your model in Europe. I found this, instead (x10sdv-4c-tln2f). It doesn't appear on VMware compatibility list. I am using Google to find out if someone has some experiences with that.

Thank you for your reply.

@pricklypunter
No need for a lot of storage, they currently have less than 200GB used out of 500GB. I'll install Windows Server 2012 then I can store the old Windows Server 2003 on a NAS.
The R210 II 1U unit is very interesting but I think it takes a lot of space. It can be an interesting solution for another client, I am preparing various network projects, so your reply is very helpful. Plus, I really like Dell computers. For that, I'll check the used market, I'll probably find something.

Thank you for your reply.

---

The main issue is that these clients tend to spend 3000€ or 4000€ for servers they don't really need. Since I am an IT consultant for Public Administrations and we are working with money from taxes I am looking for a cheap but reliable solution. You helped me a lot, since I discovered that there aren't just expensive servers.

Apart form your solutions, I want to know form you what do you think about the Intel's NUC. Is it a nice small server or do you prefer to build a server yourself? I am talking in general, not necessarily related to my case.
 

pricklypunter

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I look closely at what the requirements are and go from there. If the requirements are very low, as they are in your case, I'll look more at a pre-built server solution from a major vendor like Dell or HP. If money is really tight, like for a small startup etc, I will look at good secondhand or refurbished equipment with a warranty. I would do this primarily because once you have a need for a real server but have requirements that small, you simply cannot beat their solutions on price/ performance/ reliability etc. If you were to attempt to build something yourself, it will simply cost you more money.

Once you get into requiring larger storage capacities, virtualisation density, applications requiring large amounts of RAM or CPU hungry applications, then it may be reasonable to save some money by rolling your own solution, using good quality components, or again, depending on the client's requirements for warranty, SLA's etc, it may be more cost effective to buy into an entry/ mid level vendor solution. In terms of physical space, yes a rack full of equipment is overkill for you this time round, but a 1U pizza box server can usually be tucked away easily enough in a cupboard along with your switch and router etc, plus they are as cheap as they are reliable. It's always a trade off.

I have never used or deployed a NUC as a server, nor will I or for that matter know anyone that has. It could be done, though it was never designed with that role in mind, so performance/ reliability may not be that great. Plus your missing a couple of things that I would consider vital for any real server deployment, ECC RAM and server grade networking. If I really had to find something that small physically, I would roll my own solution, but it would cost a fair bit of money to do it properly with server class components. It would definitely blow your 800eu budget right of the water :D

If your server has to be smaller than 1U, as in "smaller footprint", perhaps consider something along the lines of a good secondhand or refurbished HP Microserver?

Either of the servers I have mentioned will do what you need, have room for future growth, be quiet and reliable and be under your 800 eu budget if you do your homework :)
 
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T_Minus

Build. Break. Fix. Repeat
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I would avoid a NUC since you can't do RAID1.

With their performance requirements and storage requirements I think you can still do an ITX setup with RAID1.
 

Andreas1138

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You convinced me to find a "real" server for my client, from the refurbished market (with warranty). Right now I am choosing between these two options:
  1. Dell Power Edge R710
    2 x Intel Xeon 4 core @ 2,13 GHz
    24GB of RAM
    2 x 750GB SATA
    2 x 1TB SATA
  2. Dell Power Edge R610
    2 x Intel Xeon 4 core @ 2,13 GHz
    24GB of RAM
    2 x 73GB SAS (for VMware ESXi)
    2 x 1TB Sata 2.5"
The second one is cheaper but I am worried that the 2.5" disks are slow. I'll probably go with the first one. If I can set two separated RAID 1, on the first one I can install VMware ESXi and use the second one as datastore. I noticed that this brings better performances.

What do you think?
Do you suggest to prepare two separated RAID as well?
I know that 750 GB is a lot of space for VMware, but I can't order smaller disks.

Every time I install a free license of VMware, it seems that only one physical CPU is supported. Is that right?
I can't order only 1 CPU, but that's OK.

Edit: I noticed that the Dell R710 has an SD card reader and you can use it to install VMware ESXi. Is it a nice solution? I can save on some disks. Does it deliver same performances? If it stops to work, I can always prepare a second SD so the client can insert it.

P.S.: it takes some space, but the seller prepare it form, there is a warranty, I am more comfortable.
 
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pricklypunter

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You are way overkill for your requirements. A single Xeon 12xx v2 CPU, 16-32GB RAM, one or two PCIe-2.0 x8(x16) expansion slots and remote management, if you can get it within budget, or has a cheap upgrade path to it for later when a little more money is available, should be your target spec. Look for a server with something like that as a baseline and spend your money on good quality, reliable storage instead. If you decide to go to a lower CPU, at the least, make sure it supports VT-x and VT-d to cover any future storage requirements using an HBA.

Boot ESXi from either an internal SD card or a USB stick. Get a good refurbished/ tested SSD (240-400GB) with power loss protection that actually works, like an Intel DC-S3500 etc and create your VMFS Datastore on that, put all your VM's there and take a backup of each once you have finished configuration (tip: don't store your back-up on the same host). Create a VM and roll your own simple ZFS based NAS (maybe using Debian and ZoL or FreeNas etc) and share out a pool built with at least a couple of 1-2TB Hitachi (HGST)/ WD RE enterprise class SATA III disks as a mirrored vdev to your other VM's for storage. If you save enough money on the server, you can always use 4 disks and setup a striped mirror, that brings you a gazillion free benefits at little cost to you like a healthy speed bump, low impact on disk failures, reasonable redundancy, protection against bit rot with check summing etc, it's also easily configured and managed. The disks can be either refurbished or new, providing you have some warranty for confidence, and at this capacity, should be cheap as chips :)

I like both the servers that you are looking at. In the right setting, they are great boxes, but they really are overkill for what you need. They come with disks that you don't really need either adding to your costs. In addition to that, they are both quite noisy in use, especially as you load them up, and are power hungry, so not exactly happy cohabitation with office workers either. Keep it simple and basic, less to go wrong, less money involved = better return on your investment :)

Every time I install a free license of VMware, it seems that only one physical CPU is supported. Is that right?
Yes, that's correct. It's free, but limited.

I'll probably go with the first one. If I can set two separated RAID 1, on the first one I can install VMware ESXi and use the second one as datastore. I noticed that this brings better performances.
The performance benefits of storing the Hypervisor and the Datastore on separate disks really is marginal at this level, but it can save you a headache or two from a corrupted or non bootable Hypervisor install.

P.S.: it takes some space, but the seller prepare it form, there is a warranty, I am more comfortable.
No kidding, twice as much space required as what I proposed to begin with :)

Edit: I noticed that the Dell R710 has an SD card reader and you can use it to install VMware ESXi. Is it a nice solution? I can save on some disks. Does it deliver same performances? If it stops to work, I can always prepare a second SD so the client can insert it.
Unless I had little choice, I would always be looking to boot the Hypervisor from either SD or USB, you can use dd in Linux to make an exact copy of your install in case you need it later.
 
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Andreas1138

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Apr 2, 2016
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@pricklypunter
Thank you for your reply.
I am considering the Dell PowerEdge R710 because I found it for 550€ + VAT (less if I decide to install VMware ESXi on a USB pendrive or SD Card). I think it's a good price. The R610 costs me 50€ less. I know it's overkill, but I am not able to find a refurbished microserver for less.
I am also reading a lot of articles about building your server but it costs more and I am stuck.
I also have the chance to configure the server as I want, deciding what disks to use and which CPU to buy. You can find it here. As you can see you can choose which configuration you want, selecting the hardware if you scroll down the page.

I usually backup my VMs using ghettoVCB and I save them on a Synology NAS. On some companies, we created a Hiperlan connection to a distant location, so I can save the data far from the main site. During the weekends we save the VMs and every night we save the new generated data.
We usually create two virtual disks on each VM, the first one dedicated to the OS, the second one for the software data. So it's faster if just the OS crashed (because of an update gone wrong or similar cases) and I have to restore just that disk.

FreeNAS is really nice, but I find these Synology models very fast and easy to configure.

The USB and SD card options are really interesting, but I am afraid that if it stops to work and the client is not prepared, I have to go to the client as soon as I can to restore the server. Sometimes it's not possible, if I am far from the client. Maybe I can prepare the SD card or the USB pendrive anyway, just in case VMware stops to work inside the server. And start the VMs from the NAS, as a temporary solution.

I also usually set an old PC as a service computer or create two similar VMs in both servers so I can connect to this OS and operate from my office or with my tablet if I am far from the client. I just need an internet connection.

About the license, I installed it on a server with 2 CPUs and VMware wrote that it's licensed for 2 physical CPU (as you can see from a this screenshot I took). It's a free license. So I can use both CPUs with a free license? I am confused about this.

Thank you for your help and time, I really appreciate it.
You live in Canada, too far to offer something to drink, too bad :)
 

pricklypunter

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Here's an option from the same ebay site you linked to earlier in the thread:

HP Enterprise ProLiant MicroServer Gen8 - Server - 2.3 GHz - RAM:8 GB HDD:8 GB

I appreciate that the R710/ 610 servers you are looking at are reasonable moneywise, but they are quite noisy in use, if you are going to be using this in an office alongside humans, it's going to upset someone. Also, they are power hungry for all that you'll be using it for :)

I think you may have misunderstood me when I mentioned creating a local NAS VM. I meant create it and share the disks to your local VM's as the user/ software data disks. That way you can take advantage of the faster networking between VM's as well as the other benefits.

Booting from an SD card or a USB stick is really the way to go. You can give the client a few spare cards etc in case something goes wrong. They are easy to duplicate from your original using dd in Linux.

If you have remote management like iLO or IPMI etc, you no longer need to worry about setting up a remote management computer, 99.99% of anything you'll need to configure/ fix can be done directly on the server.

The licensing question, I stole the answer from somewhere else:

Free version Hypervisor (Esxi) Version 6.0
  • 2 (physical) CPU limit
  • No Ram limit (removed since 5.5)
Hypervisor Spec
  • Number of cores per physical CPU: No limit
  • Number of physical CPUs per host: No limit
  • Number of logical CPUs per host: 480
  • Maximum vCPUs per virtual machine: 8
 

Andreas1138

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I was very impressed by the ProLiant MicroServer, but I didn't like the fact that it supports just 16 GB of RAM. It was my main issue about the 5th generation NUC.
I spoke to the client and he told me that they have a dedicated room for the server, where they also store the Fujitsu, so we don't have to worry about the noise. But the power hungry "feature" remains, you are right.

I was looking to a Synology NAS, the DS215+ model. Synology says that is compatible with VMware and maybe I understand what you mean. I can take advantage of the NAS space and fast network placing virtual disks from VMware there?

If I buy the R710 or a model that is smaller, I can test the SD card boot feature. I never used the remote management port, but it seems really interesting. Do I have to use the management ethernet port that sometimes I see from some servers? Do I have to simply connect an ethernet cable to that port then use my browser to navigate to the assigned IP address?
I can test this feature on the Dell powerEdge R530. Sorry about my ignorance :) I'll do some research.

Thank you for your info about the license. Now it's clear :)

I'm also following this thread about a cheap GPU under ESXi. It would be nice to execute Google Earth smoothly under a Windows 7 VM.
 
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pricklypunter

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I was very impressed by the ProLiant MicroServer, but I didn't like the fact that it supports just 16 GB of RAM. It was my main issue about the 5th generation NUC.
The HP Microservers are by all accounts, great little boxes, they are quiet, power efficient and have a really small footprint, plus they are inexpensive secondhand and punch well above their weight. Given your requirements, and from your baseline tests, 16GB of RAM should cover what you need right now. The NUC on the other hand was really designed as a home media/ desktop replacement type system, although reasonably powerful for what it is, it's never going to be a reliable server for a production environment because of the hardware it uses.

I spoke to the client and he told me that they have a dedicated room for the server, where they also store the Fujitsu, so we don't have to worry about the noise. But the power hungry "feature" remains, you are right.
Glad to hear they have somewhere to hide the server away from the office staff, those larger Dell's are pretty noisy when they get going under load. Think loud vacuum cleaner in your ear all day long, only more annoying! Although I think given your requirements, it's likely never to get beyond idling :)

I was looking to a Synology NAS, the DS215+ model. Synology says that is compatible with VMware and maybe I understand what you mean. I can take advantage of the NAS space and fast network placing virtual disks from VMware there?
Yes, and No. You roll your own NAS (with local disks) right on the same server, only it's in a VM of it's own. You then share out that storage pool as volumes to your other VM's over the VMware virtual switch fabric using iSCSI or NFS etc, rather than passing it from one box to another via external switch fabric. If you do that, you can then take advantage of next gen file systems and have your inter-VM traffic run at higher paravirtual speeds (10Gbps in most cases) at no additional hardware cost.

If I buy the R710 or a model that is smaller, I can test the SD card boot feature. I never used the remote management port, but it seems really interesting. Do I have to use the management ethernet port that sometimes I see from some servers? Do I have to simply connect an ethernet cable to that port then use my browser to navigate to the assigned IP address?
I can test this feature on the Dell powerEdge R530. Sorry about my ignorance :) I'll do some research.
You can boot ESXi from either SD card or USB. ESXi is loaded into a small portion of RAM and runs from there. Once you have got everything configured the way you want it, you can then duplicate the SD card or USB stick using dd in Linux and give as many spares to the client as you want to in case of a failure.

There are different flavours of remote management, depending on vendor, but they all essentially achieve the same sorts of things. One really nice feature is that you should have the ability to remotely install your OS again from scratch if you had to. In fact, assuming that you have all the hardware installed and working, you should be able to do your install and configuration and deploy it without leaving your office :)
There are other benefits too, lots of troubleshooting information is then available to you remotely etc. And yes, you configure your management port as you would any other Ethernet port. It's meant for out of band management access, so that you can do stuff without interfering with the client's workflows, so don't go giving it an IP address on the same LAN as your users :)

I'm also following this thread about a cheap GPU under ESXi. It would be nice to execute Google Earth smoothly under a Windows 7 VM.
Your issue with your test of google earth was likely one of shared resources. Under ESXi you don't have any resources that you can share, you need real hardware for that :)

You live in Canada, too far to offer something to drink, too bad :)
I'm only 7hrs this way --->

Next time you're in town, I'll let you buy me a beer :D
 
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Andreas1138

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The possibility to install ESXi on a USB Pen drive opens a lot of interesting solutions.
Since I am preparing a network configuration for some small clients, I was thinking that I can create a small solution buying just a supermicro motherboard, install a CPU suitable for my needs, some RAM and connect to a fast NAS that I can use as a Datastore. So I can have a RAID redundancy.

I am now reading this article by VMware: Best Practices for running VMware vSphereTM on Network Attached Storage

Do you have some experiences on that? Do you suggest that for small offices?
I'll probably connect the NAS directly to the server, since the products I work with usually have more than 1 NIC each.

I checked the flights and it takes from 9 to 13 hours to reach Canada from Rome :)
Montréal seems nice!
 
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pricklypunter

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Most modern servers these days have one or both internal SD slots and type A USB ports for just exactly this scenario. Although there's nothing to stop you from actually using an external USB port or SD slot. It's all about physical access/ security. The server should be located somewhere nobody can get at it anyway, i.e a locked room/ cupboard etc, so it's not really a problem, but if there's any chance that someone could accidentally remove it or damage it, it's advisable to place the boot device inside the server chassis where it's much safer :)

If the requirements demanded large amounts of shared storage, say for a large corporate file server or something, then DAS or SAN probably begins to make more sense. It's doable on an external NAS, but there are some serious penalties for doing so. For a small office like that of your client, with minimal storage requirements, I would look to using local disks in some way. If you want redundancy and data integrity, then you need to get a little more creative. One way would be to create a Linux VM, install ZoL on it and build a couple of mirrored vdevs and then stripe them. Think of it as a modern day raid level of 1+0. You can then take that storage pool and either share it back to ESXi to use as a VMFS Datastore disk, or you can create volumes on it and share those directly with other VM's using iSCSI or NFS etc. The same can be achieved with using one of the many pre-built solutions, like FreeNAS or NAS4Free etc. I prefer to roll my own though, I feel I have better control over it and if something is not working properly, I know exactly what I have installed etc :)
 

Andreas1138

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Apr 2, 2016
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I'll probably create a small server so I can test some of these configurations. Thank you for your suggestions :)

Another question: on the VMware compatibility list, I see four rows.
  • ESX
  • ESXi installable
  • ESXi embeded
  • ESXi
I know the first one was an older OS. The second one is the versions I can install. The third one is the versions that were installed by the vendor (I think).
What about the fourth one?
I took a screenshot from the Dell R710 compatibility guide results. Does it mean that I can install VMware ESXi 6.0?
 

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pricklypunter

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I think those are just options (various versions) you can order when you purchase through the Dell site. ESXi 6+ will run fine on an R710 :)