UPS Selection

[Terry Kennedy]

Somebody gave me a APC 1500va Smart UPS, they said it didn't work. I opened it up and the batteries were swelled and about ready to bust. I pried them out and put in a fresh new set and now it's good as new. Fully tested and fully functional.

APC units tend to drift out of calibration over time and boil their batteries. Without adjusting the float voltage, you can expect about 3 years on the original batteries, 2 years on the first replacement, and less than 1 year on the second replacement. This is for Smart-UPS units. Back-UPS are worse, Symmetra are better.

There is some info on adjusting the voltage here.

 

[canta]

Somebody gave me a APC 1500va Smart UPS, they said it didn't work. I opened it up and the batteries were swelled and about ready to bust. I pried them out and put in a fresh new set and now it's good as new. Fully tested and fully functional.

honestly, I never see APC smart UPS died, the only to replace is the battery.
smart APC will not turn on when the battery is not in good condition.
pick any dead smart APC, mostly you only replace batteries

 

[canta]

APC units tend to drift out of calibration over time and boil their batteries. Without adjusting the float voltage, you can expect about 3 years on the original batteries, 2 years on the first replacement, and less than 1 year on the second replacement. This is for Smart-UPS units. Back-UPS are worse, Symmetra are better.

There is some info on adjusting the voltage here.

4 years battery life on my experience.

you need a good air flow too, many people just put apc without good air circulation..

if you have network module, you can set those via web ...

are you talking old smart APC that is white color or black?

 

[Fritz]

Thanks for the info. I'll be checking the float voltage. Based on the condition of the old batteries, I'd guess it's too high.

 

[canta]

Thanks for the info. I'll be checking the float voltage. Based on the condition of the old batteries, I'd guess it's too high.

the link does not cover black smart UPS APC( 2nd generation ) and later ,
white model is the first model that covered from the link. this first generation must be avoided due on their configuration and very old circuity design

I think the author should tell which generation of smart UPS APC is.

on 2nd or later generation..
you can set many configuration via network , assuming that ethernet remote module is installed,
I use default configuration, my chinese battery last ~4 years ..
the bad one is smartUPS APC 750W (black color), battery last ~3 years due on heat does not pull out from the battery.
smartUPS 1500 (black) has a fan installed, this help extend the battery life, the fan is loud when is running,fan is running 24V DC.

rule of thumb: do Not buy white SmartUPS APC, this is 1st generation that not good.
would like to share my knowledge

 

[T_Minus]

I guess everyone has different experiences but my old old White APC Back-UPS has been through over 2 months or so -- 60-75 days of power outages in the last 6 ( i believe or more) years, and the batteries just died a couple weeks ago.

If I have to replace the entire unit I won't complain... 1 set of batteries, and used until it stopped working in every power outage and then re-charged, and used again over and over during each outage.

For the tiny amount I paid it served it's purpose over and over and over again and worked great providing my house network connectivity during a power outage

I have a handful of other APC black colored BackUps that have done this duty as well, and just replaced batteries in one ~6 months ago and still working fine. I don't just use them for computers, they get used for lights, on demand hot water heater, and more during power outages.

 

[canta]

Stil has 2 x1400 white apc.
10 years in use. Still keep due on those were my first UPS that worked like a tank.
4x replacement.
I use smart apc due the output is not coarse simulated sinus. 3 black smart apc with network modules.
Serves me well during thunderstorm. Season and heavy rain that always knocks power momentarily aka flickering.
One cyberpwer for my dlp tv.

 

[capn_pineapple]

We've just had two APC 3KVA UPS blow their loads on us (battery acid everywhere!

Almost caught fire they were so hot.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

the link does not cover black smart UPS APC( 2nd generation ) and later ,
white model is the first model that covered from the link. this first generation must be avoided due on their configuration and very old circuity design.

Actually, it is relevant for many different series of Smart-UPS. Beige vs. black case is no guarantee of what circuitry is inside them. I've seen beige units that can adjust their float voltage via the serial port, as well as (more commonly) ones that will display it but can't change it, or that don't have the command at all.

APC continually works on reducing their cost to produce the units, so there is a "sweet spot" where the design is relatively modern but hasn't been economized to death yet.

APC changed their serial protocol from UPS-Link to Microlink (and alienated a large portion of their customer base). They subsequently migrated to Modbus which is an open standard, to which they have added vendor extensions. My comments above are about the UPS-Link models.

 

[canta]

Actually, it is relevant for many different series of Smart-UPS. Beige vs. black case is no guarantee of what circuitry is inside them. I've seen beige units that can adjust their float voltage via the serial port, as well as (more commonly) ones that will display it but can't change it, or that don't have the command at all.

APC continually works on reducing their cost to produce the units, so there is a "sweet spot" where the design is relatively modern but hasn't been economized to death yet.

APC changed their serial protocol from UPS-Link to Microlink (and alienated a large portion of their customer base). They subsequently migrated to Modbus which is an open standard, to which they have added vendor extensions. My comments above are about the UPS-Link models.

black always 2nd gen or later.the easy way is looking UPS build date.
I have early white (1st gen) and 2nd black. regardless black or white, those UPS work as a tank!.
the other thing white idle consumption is more than black 2nd or later.

this is the reason to know what generation of UPS.

 

[canta]

We've just had two APC 3KVA UPS blow their loads on us (battery acid everywhere!

Almost caught fire they were so hot.

mostly due on not good air cooling :|..
the cooling is the most important, or your battery got boiled and could exploded
or some of the battery is already not in a good shape, that cause shortcircuit on broken battery, this will give so much burden on healthy battery.

rule of thumb, every 4 years, UPS needs replacement..

the easy trial. charge your regular 12V car battery, and put in limited air cooling, the battery would explode or crack..

 

[Terry Kennedy]

rule of thumb, every 4 years, UPS needs replacement..

------- Matrix 5000 -----------------------------------------------------------

  Status of UPS : On Line, No Alarms Present
  Last Transfer : Due to software command or UPS's test control
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Input Voltage  : 209.4 VAC  Operating Frequency : 60.00 Hz
  Output Voltage  : 202.1 VAC  Internal Temperature: 76.7 F
  Load Power  : 022.8 % Watts  Battery Voltage  : 55.63 VDC
  Load Current  : 05.43 Amps  Bad Batteries  : 000
  Max Line Voltage : 209.4 VAC  Battery Capacity  : 100.0 %
  Min Line Voltage : 209.4 VAC  Runtime Remaining  : 1120 min
  Apparent Load Power : 018.0 % VA
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Self-Test Result : Passed  Calibration Result  : Not available
  Self-Test Date  : 02/21/2016  Calibration Date  : Unknown

------- About Matrix 5000 named UPS5 ------------------------------------------

  Serial Number  : 82015561  Firmware Revision : 5ZM
  Manufacture Date  : 12/11/97

 

[capn_pineapple]

mostly due on not good air cooling :|

In our server room kept at 21 degrees celsius, temp isn't an issue.

 

[canta]

In our server room kept at 21 degrees celsius, temp isn't an issue.

was that the battery pack had good air flow?
if not:
short-circuit battery on my understanding, that boiled the healthy battery..
when it happens, the UPS must set a warning via the panel or the software.

 

[canta]

------- Matrix 5000 -----------------------------------------------------------

  Status of UPS : On Line, No Alarms Present
  Last Transfer : Due to software command or UPS's test control
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Input Voltage  : 209.4 VAC  Operating Frequency : 60.00 Hz
  Output Voltage  : 202.1 VAC  Internal Temperature: 76.7 F
  Load Power  : 022.8 % Watts  Battery Voltage  : 55.63 VDC
  Load Current  : 05.43 Amps  Bad Batteries  : 000
  Max Line Voltage : 209.4 VAC  Battery Capacity  : 100.0 %
  Min Line Voltage : 209.4 VAC  Runtime Remaining  : 1120 min
  Apparent Load Power : 018.0 % VA
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Self-Test Result : Passed  Calibration Result  : Not available
  Self-Test Date  : 02/21/2016  Calibration Date  : Unknown

------- About Matrix 5000 named UPS5 ------------------------------------------

  Serial Number  : 82015561  Firmware Revision : 5ZM
  Manufacture Date  : 12/11/97

aha, you have Matrix 5000 ... big jumbo apc
definetly very ancient and your link site is applied

I usually buy chinese uknown branded batteries and set 4 years to replace.

the most issue battery weaken due on how many charging and recharging factors..
in my area/work, summer season is nasty of power failures for a sec aka flickering ..

you see, how durable non consumer APC UPS, this just run and run and run ..
I never see non consumer APC UPS dies.. even one in my life.
and..
it is easy to buy used on ebay without spending $$$

 

[capn_pineapple]

~snip~

Airflow isn't an issue (thankfully).

Hilariously, both it and the one next to it have been beeping intermittently for the past 6 months, replacement was flagged, knocked back, flagged again, knocked back again, flagged a third time, then exploded. The joys of small business saying "but it's a battery, batteries don't go off" yeah, this thing is 6 years old...

Apparently it's the float voltage for the battery charge/discharge circuit that went haywire and overloaded the batteries cooking them. Sadly not an overly uncommon issue with the older APC units.

We're still operating on the second dodgy UPS (beeping at me this morning) whilst we get budget approval for a completely new UPS/PDU setup for our server room.

 

[Fritz]

I worked for a company once that provided a company car. They didn't believe in vehicle maintenance. Their motto was "Drive it till it quits!. I nagged them about getting the oil changed until they told me to STFU and DITIQ. I did. New engine cost them $5500.00 and they never said a word about it. I have no idea why anyone would want to operate a business like that. They were cheap in many other areas also, including compensation.

 

[canta]

Airflow isn't an issue (thankfully).

Hilariously, both it and the one next to it have been beeping intermittently for the past 6 months, replacement was flagged, knocked back, flagged again, knocked back again, flagged a third time, then exploded. The joys of small business saying "but it's a battery, batteries don't go off" yeah, this thing is 6 years old...

Apparently it's the float voltage for the battery charge/discharge circuit that went haywire and overloaded the batteries cooking them. Sadly not an overly uncommon issue with the older APC units.

We're still operating on the second dodgy UPS (beeping at me this morning) whilst we get budget approval for a completely new UPS/PDU setup for our server room.

new UPS Including with PDU is nice

I bought used 1500XL with PDU included (hmm 4 control only). this is nice that do not need exteranl remote PDU.

6 years old battery and still keep it? you are insane hahahahah

4 years is my limit, either replace or refilled baterry level.. .
but I prefer to do replacement.

 

[capn_pineapple]

new UPS Including with PDU is nice
I bought used 1500XL with PDU included (hmm 4 control only). this is nice that do not need exteranl remote PDU.

We're only looking at about a 20KVA ups with 5 PDUs (one for each rack), the one I've had quoted will do the entire server room with about 30-60 minutes of battery time. The new ones also have a 6 year warranty (the old ones only had a 2 year one which as you guessed ran out years ago), so I don't mind if we keep them for the 6 years before switching them again.

I'm in the process of rolling out 3/6 year replacement plans. 3 years for desktops/servers, 6 years for network infrastructure (switch/firewall etc) and UPS. Of course, the idea is that they don't all line up at the same time to avoid a year of ridiculous spending.

 

[canta]

We're only looking at about a 20KVA ups with 5 PDUs (one for each rack), the one I've had quoted will do the entire server room with about 30-60 minutes of battery time. The new ones also have a 6 year warranty (the old ones only had a 2 year one which as you guessed ran out years ago), so I don't mind if we keep them for the 6 years before switching them again.

I'm in the process of rolling out 3/6 year replacement plans. 3 years for desktops/servers, 6 years for network infrastructure (switch/firewall etc) and UPS. Of course, the idea is that they don't all line up at the same time to avoid a year of ridiculous spending.

2oKVA is out my range ...

thanks for the info!!!