[Update: Hired!] Startups and I don’t fit: got let go yesterday

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by gigatexal, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. manxam

    manxam Active Member

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    That pertained to my small war with @ecosse I believe...

    Regarding the offer, in my experience European companies treat the "time to mull it over" about the same as in NA. If you provide a realistic time-frame there likely won't be any push back (unless, of course, they're in a huge bind that hiring someone ASAP will mitigate).

    How much time are you thinking that you'll need?
     
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  2. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    They said 7 days I was hoping for 10 but I think I can work with 7 days. Got an offer. Looking at firms that can teach me more and push me and that would be more fun to work with than an aging bluechip but a job I need so if nothing pans out I will take this one.
     
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  3. Marsh

    Marsh Moderator

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    Happy for you :):):)
     
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  4. manxam

    manxam Active Member

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    Worst case scenario you keep looking after taking the job. This way you get to stay where you are.
    Congrats dude!
     
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  5. niekbergboer

    niekbergboer Active Member

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    Since you're now already in Germany, you could also consider Switzerland; much better pay, much lower taxes (and much higher cost of living, but that's more than offset by the other two).

    It's a very well organized nice and safe country. Please don't believe the articles about the Swiss being racist; I've lived there for almost 12 years now, and I have seen none of that. I hope to stay here for the rest of my life (I'm Dutch by birth).
     
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  6. PeterF

    PeterF New Member

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    You should also consider Italy!

    Higher taxes, not so well organized, higher pay but for top management. But you live very well!
    I have been here for over 20 years (originally Swedish). If you have ever drunk a glass of prosecco, that is from where I live. I just had a bottle for lunch! You also eat very well. 2 years ago I was thrown out of the company where i worked for over 30 years. Now instead I enjoy life. I am 62 now so no problem!

    That said I have one daughter studying in South Korea and one working in Hamburg. The wife is in Milano, 350 km away, a safe distance, she cannot complain of the noise from my servers!

    Enjoy Europe

    Best Regards
    Peter
     
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  7. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    Another interview today with a fintech startup that is mid-stage: 6-years old and doing great. I really liked the team. Here’s to hoping I have another offer come sometime next week!
     
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  8. LukeP

    LukeP Member

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    Why would any employee work 50-60 hours in US? Aren’t you paid for your standard 38 hours? Unless you own the company why would you? USA is a big country and should be enough jobs to find one that isn’t stealing your life/time?

    My brother moved to London from Sydney and Londoners work huge hours there. if they suggest he stay back longer without remuneration, he just says **** you read our contract.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  9. BLinux

    BLinux cat lover server enthusiast

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    my situation is different right now, as i'm currently a consultant and get paid by the hour.

    but even when i was employed full time at a large US corporation, it wasn't about the hours or the money for me. what mattered more was that I was accomplishing something meaningful; i was more goal oriented and interested in challenging problems. if the goal took 30hrs/week or 60hrs/week or 80hrs/week, that really didn't matter - it was about accomplishing the goal. Often taking on challenging problems, usually means >40hrs/week; except the few occasions perhaps when i discover a brilliant short cut to solve a problem; but then I just direct my attention to the next challenge.

    regarding the comment about "stealing your life/time" away... I think different people can look at that differently. i can understand both sides of that argument. but for me personally, i've chosen a line of work that I actually enjoy, and I like to share what I've accomplished or being challenged by with my family; i ask my kids what's going on at school and I share with them what's going at work. "work" is just a component of my overall "life", as is family, my car hobby, and everything else - i don't treat it as a separate part of my "life" that I have to step out of temporarily to go do. fortunately, perhaps because of the choices i've made, i often have employers/clients that allow me to work from home anyway. so, i don't miss much; i get to see my kids when they come back from school, they come to my office to ask for help with homework, we have dinner together, after the kids are in bed, wifey and I talk or discuss things or find something entertaining on tv to watch together. if I need to focus more on a problem at work, i can do that instead too. if a non-work related thing takes priority, i can choose to not work a single billable hour for a week or two. if I need to work on a really hard problem for a client, i might easily put in 80hours a week or more. life is very flexible for me and I'm happy and thankful for the circumstances i'm in.

    i realize not everyone will share my "integrated" outlook on life/work/family. and i also realize not everyone is afforded the same circumstances. but I do feel like life is better when you're just focused on what is important at the time, whether that is family, kids, hobby or work, and not so much on the number of hours spent on a task. and most importantly, always try to find work that you enjoy - even if you have to temporarily work a job you don't (and I have), always keep sight of the next career step and try to make each of those steps something you will enjoy doing.
     
    #89
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  10. BlueFox

    BlueFox Active Member

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    In the US, 40 hours, not 38 is standard. Contracts are also uncommon. Work environment/culture is very different in the US than Australia or the EU. Most positions above entry-level in the technology sector are classified as "salaried exempt". That means you are exempt from being paid overtime should you exceed 40 hours in a single work week. Legally speaking, your employer must give you a full days wage no matter how much you work on any given day, be it 20 minutes or 20 hours. Expectations generally are that you work at least 40 hours and as much as needed to fulfill the duties of your role however. Not all companies are like that, but finding one with a good work/life balance can be difficult.

    It's also worth mentioning that it's quite difficult to push back against this sort of thing. In the US, normally you can be fired with zero notice for pretty much any reason whatsoever (the upside is that you can also quit sans notice). While it varies from state to state, generally your employer is not required to provide you with any severance pay and unemployment is woefully inadequate (where I live, the maximum you can receive is $240 a week for example and taxes are still taken out of that). In some states, neither paid holidays nor any sort of break whatsoever is legally mandated for adult workers.

    Things are just different here, but maybe I'm painting a bleaker picture than reality. US companies are not out there to work you to death, but one's professional life is going to be quite different in the US compared to the rest of the world. I will say that the top technology companies are very competitive in both pay and benefits and it is common to jump between them every few years to make the most out of one's career and move up quickly. Also, wages here are considerably higher than Australia or the EU. I looked at moving back to Australia and I would take a sizeable pay cut, while cost of living (housing especially) would increase significantly.
     
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  11. kapone

    kapone Active Member

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    The compensation for typical tech jobs in US is WAY more than anywhere else in the world (except may be some recent developments in China/Hong Kong). It just is, and as part of that it is "expected" that there is no such thing as 40 hrs/week. You do what's needed, but you also get paid more than your peers in the rest of the world.

    In India for e.g., it is the rule rather than the exception to work 6 days/week, and however many hours as needed on a daily basis. Admittedly it is not a tier 1 economy, so things are different there, but still something to think about. And you get paid a lot less there comparably speaking and things are MORE expensive there than they are in the US. I have often wondered how people survive there.
     
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  12. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    With regards to working conditions I spoke to a founder of a startup in France and the CTO literally said “we don’t have deadlines” and “we won’t ask you to work more than 35 hours a week period”
     
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  13. mstone

    mstone Active Member

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    Yeah, this is incredibly misused but the current political climate is unlikely to result in reform. If you have to work specific hours & have no flexibility in when you can work, but are expected to keep working after those hours (because the employer hasn't hired enough people?) you're exempt in name only and being taken advantage of. If you sometimes work more but can come in late or duck out early when you want (without leaving people hanging), then it's a partnership and more in line with how exempt employ was originally envisioned.
     
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  14. manxam

    manxam Active Member

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    @gigatexal : Don't leave us in the dark! How did you make out?
     
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  15. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    Ahh sorry! So I signed a letter of intent with a firm. The job I really wanted fell through so I’m taking the Nielsen one until I find my dream job.
     
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  16. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    So... this is me post the grief cycle: I found a sample template for Gokit the Spring/SpringBoot of the Go language. But I found a template that if we had used could have saved the company a ton of money and my job: Twitter
     
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  17. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    I digress: it could very well be that, as the title states, it just wasn’t a good fit for me and nothing could have prevented my exit :(
     
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  18. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    So.... the company I really wanted to join didn’t have it in their budget to hire me to the team that I wanted to join. So apparently the team leads went to bat and fought to get me. I just got an offer.

    Here’s the thing I signed an agreement with the first company that offered me a contract as they were the only one up to that point and they put a time limit on it of 7 days. So before it ended I accepted. Now I’m in a pickle. No matter what I do I will likely burn a few bridges. Either at the startup I want to join if I don’t accept (which I think for my career will be really worthwhile) or with the recruiter and the team that I am doing paperwork to get hired on with.

    What would you all do?
     
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  19. kapone

    kapone Active Member

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    Pick whatever you think is best for your career. To any and all other parties...tough shit.

    Burning bridges is overrated.
     
    #99
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  20. Evan

    Evan Well-Known Member

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    It’s only been a couple of days, it’s not like you are a month or 2 after signing that you pull out. Do what’s best for you.
     
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