(Update 03-31) DFI DT122 (AMD RX-427BB Barebones) Industrial ITX T730-a-like; $100-110

Discussion in 'Great Deals' started by arglebargle, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    2019-03-31: The deals are dead, everyone below has raised their prices to $98-109

    AMD Quad-core Desktop 2.7GHz w/ 4GB DDR3 Ram,Radeon GPU,7.1 Audio,2x Lan USB 3.0 | eBay

    DFI DT122-BE 2nd Gen AMD Embedded R-Series Industrial Desktop PC 2.7GHz | eBay

    DFI DT122-BE 2nd Gen AMD Embedded R-Series Industrial Desktop Box PC 2.7GHz HD ! | eBay
    2019-03-17, $109.44 shipped, accepting offers:

    Ongoing <$110 eBay search

    These Industrial ITX machines are based on the same AMD APU SoC as the capable HP T730 thin client. This is a quad core 2.7GHz board with boost clock rates up to 3.6GHz. Typical idle power in Linux with a single SSD, 16GB RAM and a Mellanox Connect-X3 VPI NIC is ~25W. That's around 5W more than the (extremely power efficient) HP T730. Not too shabby for a commodity parts ITX box.

    For some context, the T730 thin client is selling for around $140-$200. At $100 or under this is, in my opinion, a very solid purchase.

    Why is this machine exciting?
    • Average power draw before add-in hardware is around 20W at idle while running Proxmox.
    • Intel LAN onboard (i210) in addition to a Realtek r8168
    • One full-sized 16x PCIe slot
    • You can jam 4 SATA SSDs in the case if you're creative
    • Runs Proxmox well, and can easily handle two (or more) pfSense VMs without breaking a sweat
    • Handles gigabit internet routing like a champ
    • AES-NI equivalent
    • mPCIe/mSATA slot
    • Under 2U, fits nicely on a shelf
    • 250W Delta PSU
    lspci -tv:
    Code:
    -[0000:00]-+-00.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Root Complex
              +-01.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics]
              +-01.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri HDMI/DP Audio Controller
              +-02.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Root Port
              +-03.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Root Port
              +-03.1-[01]----00.0  Intel Corporation I210 Gigabit Network Connection
              +-03.2-[02]--+-00.0  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
              |            +-00.1  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 816a
              |            +-00.2  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 816b
              |            +-00.3  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 816c
              |            \-00.4  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 816d
              +-04.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Root Port
              +-10.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB XHCI Controller
              +-10.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB XHCI Controller
              +-11.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SATA Controller [AHCI mode]
              +-12.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB OHCI Controller
              +-12.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB EHCI Controller
              +-13.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB OHCI Controller
              +-13.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB EHCI Controller
              +-14.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SMBus Controller
              +-14.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH IDE Controller
              +-14.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH Azalia Controller
              +-14.3  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH LPC Bridge
              +-14.4-[03]--
              +-14.5  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB OHCI Controller
              +-18.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 0
              +-18.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 1
              +-18.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 2
              +-18.3  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 3
              +-18.4  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 4
              \-18.5  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h (Models 30h-3fh) Processor Function 5
    
    Just a heads up, these are significantly louder than the T730. The factory 40mm exhaust fan is annoying, but easily replaced with a $5-10 Sunon or your favorite alternate brand.

    Here's the inside of the machine with the drive tray moved out of the way:

    [​IMG]

    PSU is a 250W Delta FlexATX that's quite a bit nicer than I expected given the low price we're paying for these machines:

    [​IMG]

    Update: Thanks to user @mimino DFI has provided a BIOS that enables IOMMU, see post here. See just below for a copy with updated device firmware included as well. This will allow you to use up to 8 VFs per SR-IOV compatible device. Support is a bit dodgy though and I wouldn't plan on using SR-IOV for anything important.
    Edit: I have a selection of 40mm Sunon Maglev fans here, the ~9CFM model works nicely as a replacement. I wouldn't go much quieter/lower CFM if you add a 10 or 40GbE NIC like I did.

    Edit: Some notes on quieting these bad-boys down:

    The stock fan is an Everflow R124020BM:
    • Rated Current: 0.16 Amp
    • Rated Input Power: 1.92 Watt
    • Rated Speed: 8000 rpm
    • Maximum Air Flow: 10.19 CFM or 0.29 CMM
    • Sound Level: 34.8 db(A)
    I've swapped the fans in mine for the Sunon MB40201VX-000U-G99 and it's a perfect drop in replacement. Audibly it's around 1/3 quieter.
    • Current Rating 115 mA
    • Power Rating 1.38 W
    • RPM 8200 RPM
    • Airflow 10.8 CFM
    • Noise 27.5 dBA
    VX's here, seller combines shipping on multiple items:
    Sunon 40mm x 20mm High Airflow MagLev Fan 3 Pin Vapo 40x20mm MB40201VX-0000-G99 695978162029 | eBay

    The Sunon MB40201V1 works well as a replacement, it's still audible but considerably less noticeable/annoying than the stock 35dBA whiner. Temps are good, and you could definitely go even lower speed if you're intending to use your machine as a standalone bare-metal pfSense host.
    • Current Rating 70 mA
    • Power Rating 0.84 W
    • RPM 7200 RPM
    • Airflow 8.9 CFM
    • Noise 25.5 dBA

    $5/shipped V1's here:
    Sunon MagLev 40mmx40mmx20mm 3 Wire Axial Fan 795508179692 | eBay

    Seller is advertising ready to use fans but shipping bare wire fans with no connector, yay! eBay! /s Easy enough to fix but annoying.

    V1's should be approximately half the loudness of the stock fan, at this point quieting the machine further is going to require replacing the CPU fan as well. V2's and V3's exist, but I'm not sure I want to go that low speed with a Connect-X3 in the case.

    Sunon specs are here: https://datasheet.octopart.com/MB40201VX-000U-G99-Sunon-Fans-datasheet-8818073.pdf
    Everflow specs here: R124020BM 40X40X20mm 3 pin Dual Ball Bearing Fan
     
    #1
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 11:39 AM
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  2. WANg

    WANg Active Member

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    No ARIFwd/ASC enablement options in the BIOS?
     
    #2
  3. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    Negative, no IOMMU or SR-IOV options that I can see either. The BIOS is pretty spartan, I had a chance to dump a rom file this morning but I haven't had a chance to take it apart with tools on my windows box yet.

    It's standard AMI Aptio though, so the existing BIOS mod tooling should work with it.

    I mailed DFI earlier for a newer BIOS and asked about the possibility of having them expose hidden functions in a BIOS release too.

    Edit: Updated the OP, we've got IOMMU now.

    These are a hell of a deal. TBH I wasn't expecting the seller to take my $125 offer, I just floated it for kicks.
     
    #3
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  4. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    Here's a copy of the dumped BIOS if anyone wants to have a look:

    v56.16A
    DFI_orig_2.17.1246.bin

    Apparently 2.17.1246 is the AMI BIOS version, 56.16A is the BIOS revision.
     
    #4
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  5. WANg

    WANg Active Member

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    Hm...I didn't have a chance to mess with the t730 last weekend, but wasn't the t730 BIOS also Aptio based but with an HP splash screen? I did point out the DFI box as a potential t730 clone not too long ago, but it wasn't $125 - it was more. DFI also have a Haswell version (DT122-HD) and a Skylake version (DT122-SD), but at that price range, you are really better off buying an off-lease HP EliteDesk SFF. More RAM slots and cheaper overall.

    My beef with it was that it wasn't nearly as quiet as the HP, it doesn't have the quad/hex DisplayPort output as the t730 (so you can't repurpose it as a standalone gaming box down the line - that quad screen setup can be useful with AMD Eyefinity for multiscreen gaming, even for oldschool titles that'll work better, like Unreal Tournament 2004), plus I want to see if the Ryzen embedded boards will make it out soon. I am also holding out hope that the t740 thin client is just around the corner with a V1605B or something similar...
     
    #5
  6. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    Yeah, this is the same listing you pointed out to me. I floated a $125 BO to see how low the seller would go and he accepted, his list price is $175.

    Also, yeah, these are annoyingly loud compared to the T730. They *do* have quad DP output though, look again at the IO shield.

    HP BIOS are weird, I'm not sure what they're based on. They look like Aptio, but none of the Aptio modding tools can open them. That might be my mistake though, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to BIOS modding.

    The BIOS in all of my HP machines (T730, Z220, EliteDesk 800 G1) seem to be based on the same AMI platform, it'd be great if I could find a tool to work with them and enable any hidden functionality that's not available by default.

    I don't know if you saw my post a few days ago about the $30 barebones EliteDesk 800 G1 SFF chassis, I picked one of those up and an E3-1225 V3 for $90 -- if you can find an SR14U E3-1225 V3 they have hyperthreading enabled.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  7. BlueFox

    BlueFox Active Member

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    #7
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  8. WANg

    WANg Active Member

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    Huh. Am I looking at the wrong IO shield? I don't see 4 DP outputs there, unless it requires some splitter/breakout thing that I am not aware of.

    [​IMG]

    Hmmm...now that I think about it, I don't remember whether they are Aptios, or Insyde BIOS. The entire BIOS modding thing got weird after UEFI got popular.

    Yeah, I did see that EliteDesk 800G1 post, but if I am in the market for a desktop SFF, I would rather gun for a G2 with their Skylake CPUs.
    I don't like slapping an older Xeon on/using ECC on those old desktop boxes. It's still limited to a single (non-hotswappable, not-easy-to-swap) PSU and limited IPMI-like options (unless you have VPro on the CPU). It just seem...weird.
     
    #8
  9. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    Huh, that IO shield shot looks like a different model, this is what's on mine (DT122-BE)

    [​IMG]

    Here's the spec page: http://www.dfi-itox.com/products/product.php?productId=10016

    Also, these come in a slightly different model with 12V DC in and an external power brick:
    DFI ITOX BE171-77EN-427B 770-BE1711-100G Mini-ITX Motherboard | AMD RX-427BB | eBay

    I'm not sure how low this seller will go but if anyone's in the market for an even smaller system there it is.

    Cost was the main reason for going with older hardware, DDR3 is downright cheap compared to DDR4. If and when the V3 CPUs drop in price the SR14U is going to be an absolute steal. V2's are at around $50/ea right now, but I'd prefer to stick with V3 and above if at all possible.
     
    #9
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  10. StammesOpfer

    StammesOpfer Active Member

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    Thanks. Grabbed the $119 one. Needed something fairly low power that could push a lot of pixels.
     
    #10
  11. Yu-Phing

    Yu-Phing New Member

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  12. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    The 40x40x20mm exhaust fan, it's as loud as a typical rack mount switch exhaust fan. You could of course replace it with something quieter, but you'll need to balance temp/airflow vs noise.

    The PSU is virtually silent, and I haven't once heard the CPU fan over the exhaust fan.
     
    #12
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  13. WANg

    WANg Active Member

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    Well, it's meant to be an industrial PC, so noise isn't really a consideration. I can't imagine the PSU being entirely silent either.
     
    #13
  14. StammesOpfer

    StammesOpfer Active Member

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    There are options in the BIOS to enable thermal management and set target temps for both case and CPU. It made a huge difference I can't speak for the PSU though I transplanted it into a different mITX case with a picoPSU.

    It does go from 0-60 very quickly though so no real middle ground once it gets to target temp.
     
    #14
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  15. zack$

    zack$ Member

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    For anyone interested, thought this case looked awfully familiar: Antec Product :)
     
    #15
  16. WANg

    WANg Active Member

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    Different case. The DFI is not nearly as nice as the Antec.
     
    #16
  17. gigatexal

    gigatexal I'm here to learn

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    So what's the average decibels of this badboy?
    Would you say it's put-it-in-the-garage-and-forget-it or safe-for-home-office use?
    Does the CPU support hardware encryption acceleration -- thinking of using as a pfsense box
     
    #17
  18. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    It's on par with a normal 10GbE enterprise switch. It's not a screamer but it's not exactly quiet either, I found it a little annoying to have running in the background in my office but I'm also pretty sensitive to fan noise in a quiet room. I'll try to remember to plug mine in later and measure the dB at idle.

    The SoC does support AES acceleration, that's one of the big draws.
     
    #18
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  19. arglebargle

    arglebargle H̸̖̅ȩ̸̐l̷̦͋l̴̰̈ỏ̶̱ ̸̢͋W̵͖̌ò̴͚r̴͇̀l̵̼͗d̷͕̈

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    #19
  20. zack$

    zack$ Member

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    Exactly, the Antec case is almost identical to the HP T730 case and has built in PSU @ 90 watts, which is also similar.

    For those looking to swap out the DFI guts for something quieter, the Antec case looks like a pretty good option.
     
    #20
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