Topton 'NAS' motherboard.

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PigLover

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Jan 26, 2011
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I am not sure about the evolution of CWWK's NAS boards.

For example, CWWK's quad-port i225/i226 N5105/N6005 boards for the router barebones have evolved 5 versions and it stayed on version 5 for over 3 months(or over 6 months?); but its N5105/N6005 NAS board for retails(not the diskless NAS machine with NAS board + NAS case + power supply) has had only 1 version from when I saw it in CWWK aliexpress store. Of cause we can consider the J6412/J6413 board is the successor of the N5105/N6005 NAS board.
It makes perfect sense when you consider that CWWK does most of their designs for custom builds and retains the right to sell the same designs direct or to other customers (for large enough orders they might offer time-bound exclusives…but China is kinda Wild West with IPR protection so most of their customers probably don’t bother). If their customers are ordering with frequent design changes then you see multiple revs. Otherwise they just move the designs they have.

So basically somebody orders 100 units to spec, they build 200 hoping the original customer might want more but they are just as happy sell the extra through Ali, all the while taking on almost no risk because the original order is guaranteed and covers their entire cost. Sometimes they get lucky and the design gets popular enough on Ali to create a market of its own, like the i225/226 fanless routers have, at least for a little while.

I wouldn’t consider the J6412/13 NAS boards as a ‘successor’ product. It is quite a step down in cpu performance after all. I consider that some small NAS builder wanted a low cost board and spec’d it this way.
 
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strainu

New Member
Apr 19, 2023
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Hey folks,

First time poster here, but I've read all 8 pages of the thread. I'm looking at these boards for a low-cost NAS and it seems the choice is between these and an older i5 board.

Most problems listed here seem totally solvable, but I'm a bit worried I haven't seen anyone trying xpenology on these boards. Are there any issues I should know about? Since (very similarly spec'd) TerraMaster NASes are supported by the current loaders, I would expect a decent ride.

I've added another 5 SATA ports, with another JBM585, connected through just 1 PCIe lane.
It works. Performance is just as 'bad' as the motherboard mounted JMB585.
Have you tried running with only some ports populated? Would it be worth it to fill each M.2 slot with an adapter and use just a couple of ports from each? Would it matter which ports would be used?

I wouldn’t consider the J6412/13 NAS boards as a ‘successor’ product. It is quite a step down in cpu performance after all.
Could you elaborate a bit on that? My understanding is that the J6413 performs better in benchmarking than the N5105. Given the price point, I am personally inclined to try the "new" board.
 
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blof

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Mar 13, 2023
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Most problems listed here seem totally solvable, but I'm a bit worried I haven't seen anyone trying xpenology on these boards. Are there any issues I should know about? Since (very similarly spec'd) TerraMaster NASes are supported by the current loaders, I would expect a decent ride.
I've given it a go, and could not pass the network card selection during the first install steps. Looks like the i226V is not recognized well in the bootloader, and I read some ideas to get a Debian iso bootloaded to get past this issue, but I couldn't be bothered, since my Unraid setup is working fine right now.

Speaking of Unraid, if anyone tried to install Immich (automatic photo/video backup from your phone over wifi is the main feature for me), then I' be interested to hear your comments. I've read that for CPUs not supporting AVX (which is the case for this motherboard's CPU Pentium N6005), the Immich machine learning docker should be stopped and removed. See here for info: [How to] Install Immich through Portainer - openmediavault
 

Camprr23

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Nov 20, 2019
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Have you tried running with only some ports populated? Would it be worth it to fill each M.2 slot with an adapter and use just a couple of ports from each? Would it matter which ports would be used?
It would make sense if you are running only SATA SSD drives, as 2 of them in sequential read (~600Mbytes/sec) would already 'fill' one PCIe lane (1Gbyte/sec). But let's be honest, the 4x2.5Gbit is just about running at 1Gbyte/sec, and you are unlikely to use all 4 ports at 100% at the same time.

So at the end of the day, it's not about performance, because there is plenty to supply the ethernet ports (and what would you use 1Gbyte/sec for in the CPU? Too much data/sec to do anything with). It's all about the number of drives you can connect.

The way to do this is run the OS off the motherboard USB ports (2.0),have 64Gbytes of memory so most OS stuff is in RAM anyways. Then use the m.2 2280 slots for drives. Giving a MAX of 22 SATA ports (2x8 in cards and 1x6 on the board). Use the Intel SATA port (the chipset connected one) for your docker containers so you can have full bandwidth there. That would be the most 'efficient' way of using all the available PCIe lanes for performance/number_of_drives optimization. It would also be quite power-efficient in W/drive if you are looking at storage provisioning like that.. In other words, how can I lower the "W/drive on network" equation.
 

stingray127

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Apr 13, 2023
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J6412T-IM-A|AIoT & Industrial Solutions|ASUS Global

Asus has launched a new J6412 embedded ITX motherboard for industrial applications as well. I think it has 2x Gen3 PCIE lanes to the m.2 slot, so it should be able to handle the 6 port SATA m.2 expansion cards? It also has a Mini PCIE slot which I have also found SATA expansion options for.

Any thoughts on if this is a better alternative to the Topton/CWWK offering?

Edit: I found these for sale on antonline (and on newegg via antonline), in the ~180$ range.
 

anupvasudev

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May 1, 2023
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It would make sense if you are running only SATA SSD drives, as 2 of them in sequential read (~600Mbytes/sec) would already 'fill' one PCIe lane (1Gbyte/sec). But let's be honest, the 4x2.5Gbit is just about running at 1Gbyte/sec, and you are unlikely to use all 4 ports at 100% at the same time.

So at the end of the day, it's not about performance, because there is plenty to supply the ethernet ports (and what would you use 1Gbyte/sec for in the CPU? Too much data/sec to do anything with). It's all about the number of drives you can connect.

The way to do this is run the OS off the motherboard USB ports (2.0),have 64Gbytes of memory so most OS stuff is in RAM anyways. Then use the m.2 2280 slots for drives. Giving a MAX of 22 SATA ports (2x8 in cards and 1x6 on the board). Use the Intel SATA port (the chipset connected one) for your docker containers so you can have full bandwidth there. That would be the most 'efficient' way of using all the available PCIe lanes for performance/number_of_drives optimization. It would also be quite power-efficient in W/drive if you are looking at storage provisioning like that.. In other words, how can I lower the "W/drive on network" equation.
"Use the Intel SATA port (the chipset connected one) for your docker containers so you can have full bandwidth there." - Hi there, which SATA port is the one with the full bandwidth ? SATA 0 ?

Also, does anyone know which of the the 2 M.2 ports uses 2 lanes ?
 

OKyHb

New Member
May 11, 2023
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Does somebody know if it's possible to find any BIOS for "cw-n5105-nas" ?

I made a mistake, updated to BIOS for regular "cw-n5105" - everything works, but JMB585 controller is not visible (and 5 SATA ports are not usable)
 

TobiasT

New Member
May 13, 2023
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Hallo,

I run Windows 10 pro on this board and wonder if somebody has managed to establish a working WOL with this board?

When it is sent to hibernate state, it immediately restarts. Changing the BIOS settings (behavior after power off) does not help. Any help from you guys is appreciated.

Does somebody know if it's possible to find any BIOS for "cw-n5105-nas" ?

I made a mistake, updated to BIOS for regular "cw-n5105" - everything works, but JMB585 controller is not visible (and 5 SATA ports are not usable)
I am in contact with Tipton because my best guess is that the WOL problem is a BIOS problem. When Tipton issues a newer BIOS I am happy to share with you.
 
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Pythagoras666

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Mar 14, 2023
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Hi, I was thinking that it might be useful if I post some basic stats from my recent nas build as it's using a version of this exact motherboard. In case this post is not helpful, I/you can delete it or if you want more specific info - just ask. Keep in mind that this system is already in use so don't ask about reinstalling other OSes, etc. (it's currently using XigmaNAS 12.3.0.4-9328 (FreeBSD 12.3-RELEASE-p6).

  • Motherboard: MW MW-NVR-N5105 (green solder mask, passive heatsink on the Jmicron SATA controller, CPU fan has no custom settings but RPMs are temp dependent)
  • Case: 6-bay NAS from Innovision (no PSU)
  • PSU: FFSP180-50FEB
  • RAM: 8GB A-Data AD4S266638G19-B, 1.2V
    • Replaced with 2x16GB Apacer DDR4 2666 - ES.16G2V.GNH
  • SSD: 128GB A-Data SX6000 LITE NVME (SX6000LNP)
    • Replaced with Samsung MZVLQ128HCHQ-00B00 as the ADATA SX6000 series NVMEs have a lot of faulty units and this one seems to be one of them (keeps resetting during high amount of r/w activity).
  • HDD: 6x WD Ultrastar HC560 (WUH722020BLE6L4) in RAIDZ1

Some additional details:
  • system vars:
    • vfs.zfs.arc_max=4G
    • hw.nvme.use_nvd=0
  • zfs pool:
    • compression=lz4
    • dedup=off
L2ARC is disabled, CPU governor is set to "adaptive" and, unfortunately, I'm currently using it through a 1gbps switch, so at the moment that's the bottleneck when it comes to network speeds.
The case is in a somewhat closed and small environment with more equipment so the ambient is around ~27ºC (will be improved in the near future).
The two exhaust fans in the back of the case are connected to +12V and +5V rails for reduced RPMs (essentially silent).
The CPU idles at ~37ºC (@100MHz - reported incorrectly - the actual cpu frequency is probably closer to ~800MHz) and peaks at ~60ºC (@2001MHz). With the "adaptive" governor >40ºC and >1000MHz is somewhat rare.
The disks temps are ~34-37ºC for disks 1,2,5,6 and as expected - a bit higher for the ones in the center - ~36-40ºC for disks 3 and 4.

Update: as I moved to a newer release, based on FreeBSD 13.1, it now supports better power/frequency management (i.e. Intel Speed Shift).
The settings I use currently:
  • dev.hwpstate_intel.*.epp: 75 (a bit lower to allow the CPU to ramp up to around 2.7-2.8 GHz if needed)
  • machdep.hwpstate_pkg_ctrl: 0 (per core control)
  • economy_cx_lowest: Cmax (the last two values allowed for more aggressive throttling down and shaved additional 2-3ºC off)
  • performance_cx_lowest: Cmax
Before/after setting economy_cx_lowest and performance_cx_lowest to Cmax:
IMG_1201.jpeg


Now the CPU idles at ~34ºC (@794MHz) and ramps up with 4 copies of dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null to around 2.8GHz and 70ºC. During normal operation it stays almost constantly below 1GHz. While the max temperature and frequency are higher, it's properly throttling down to around 2.4 GHz if more cores are at 100% which brings down the temperature to around 55ºC.

---

HTTP transfer of a 14GB file from the NVME SSD (wget -O /dev/null from a separate server in the network)
SSD at 1gbps http (14GB).png

HTTP transfer of a 11GB file from the pool (wget -O /dev/null from a separate server in the network)
RAIDZ1 6x20TB - 1gbps http (11GB).png

RSYNC transfer of a 14GB file from the pool to the NVME SSD (rsync -auP /mnt/pool /mnt/ssd)
RAIDZ1 6x20TB to NVME (14GB).png

RSYNC transfer of a 14GB file from the NVME SSD to the pool (rsync -auP /mnt/ssd /mnt/pool)
NVME to RAIDZ1 6x20TB 14GB.png

-

SCRUBBING

- CPU utilization
CPU - RAIDZ1 6x20TB scrub.png

- POOL INFO
INFO - RAIDZ1 6x20TB scrub.png

- IO STATS
IO - RAIDZ1 6x20TB scrub.png

In case someone wants some more details - feel free to ask.
 
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TobiasT

New Member
May 13, 2023
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@OKyHb I get a different bootscreen showing a changwang logo, not an AMI log.

In case we do not get the BIOS file, you may try if this card would help you to get at least 5 SATA slots.

BIOS version seem to be same, at least dated same:

changwang bios.png
 
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Pythagoras666

New Member
Mar 14, 2023
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Btw, I've found another similar board (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005309885895.html). It's a (bit) newer cpu also with 8 PCIe lanes but the interesting part is the networking. It has 2 Intel i226-V and one Realtek RTL8125BG 2.5Gbps controllers. Which means there should be one more free lane that may be used for the rest of the peripherals. The cpu also supports 32GB of ram.
 

JuanT

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Mar 18, 2023
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I had a bad case of crashes that came accompanied by video corruption, and I've been able to fix it.

First I checked that by using different memory the system worked properly. The one that wasn't working was Kingston Fury, DDR4-2666 KF426S15IB1/16 . The one that did work was 16GB HMA82GS6DJR8N.

Knowing that the issue was the memory I started fiddling with memory options in the BIOS. I was able to make the system work properly by disabling SA GV, under Chipset -> System Agent (SA) Configuration -> Memory Configuration.

Very happy because I thought I had a paperweight for a motherboard and CPU.
 

strainu

New Member
Apr 19, 2023
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My J6413 board arrived in just under 2 weeks - Cainiao is doing a great job on these deliveries currently. I find the fan to be totally inaudible, even with the case opened, which is cool. I tried installing OpenMediaVault, but I didn't like it, I find it too unconfigurable to my taste. For future readers trying to install XPenology, I managed to have the network cards (both Intel and Realtek) recognized using the ARPL loader. I'll do some speed tests after I finish configurations.

I do have a few questions about the BIOS, maybe someone has found the answers before me:
1. The CPU SATA controller is presented as having 2 ports: where is the second one? According to the docs I can find, the M.2 ports don't support SATA, only NVME? I don't have any M.2 SATA drives on hand to test, unfortunately.
2. Is there an option somewhere for auto-power-up? The Synology has this cool option of a power schedule which used to work on the HP Microserver Gen7, but doesn't seem to work on this board.
 

ghiglie

New Member
May 31, 2023
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Hi there! After some time of hard lurking the forum, I wanted to jump in here too.
I put up a testbed for a CW-N5105-NAS v1 motherboard with UNRAID (I'm writing about that experience on community forum), it's going quite easy: all working correctly without hard investigations.

I contacted the seller (Topton via Aliexpress), seems there's no manual. Could you find one? I'd be interested on pinout.

@OKyHb or @TobiasT , could you reupload the BIOS?

Thanks all! :)
 
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