Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

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qwrty

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Jul 18, 2018
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Hello there :D
I'm looking to buy this kind of miniPC to change my ER4 router.
The N5105 is still recommendend over the N6005 ?
What about the J6413 option ?
(I will run 2 or 3 VM maximum => OpenWRT / Debian at least)
What about ES/QS CPU in the new ship unit ?
 
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qQ4lXbYj

New Member
Jun 15, 2021
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For those of you having issues with the i5-1135g7 on Proxmox, which linux kernel and microcode?

before restarting I would install the 5.19 kernel and last microcode from Intel.

Code:
** kernel 5.19
apt update
apt install pve-kernel-5.19


**intel microcode - requires non-free repository enabled in  /etc/apt/sources.list
apt update
apt install intel-microcode
Thanks for this it renewed my hope that it can be fixed.
Turns out that the problem starts when I passthrough a NIC as a PCI device in the OPNsense VM. Don't know what's going on there. Changing the kernel and updating the microcode probably didn't make a difference.

Update:
From various internet sources I tried to solve this unsuccessfully by doing:
1. Passthrough with ROM bar disabled
2. Making sure that at least one NIC is always allocated in the host
3. Tried passing through a different port
4. Verified that they belong to a different IOMMU group

Another thing that I noticed compared to a working OPNsense VM installation on a Xeon 2650v2 is that there
are the following extra lines when running `dmesg |grep -e DMAR -e IOMMU`
Code:
[    0.669328] pci 0000:00:02.0: DMAR: Skip IOMMU disabling for graphics
[    0.739724] DMAR: No ATSR found
[    0.739725] DMAR: No SATC found
[    0.739726] DMAR: IOMMU feature fl1gp_support inconsistent
[    0.739727] DMAR: IOMMU feature pgsel_inv inconsistent
[    0.739727] DMAR: IOMMU feature nwfs inconsistent
[    0.739728] DMAR: IOMMU feature dit inconsistent
[    0.739728] DMAR: IOMMU feature sc_support inconsistent
[    0.739729] DMAR: IOMMU feature dev_iotlb_support inconsistent
So turns out it was the memory.
If you have a single VM you can't assign all the memory to it. In my case my RAM was 16GB and I set the memory to 16GB and this would cause it to crash when doing a PCI passthrough.
 
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andrea87

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Oct 15, 2022
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Thanks for this it renewed my hope that it can be fixed.
Turns out that the problem starts when I passthrough a NIC as a PCI device in the OPNsense VM. Don't know what's going on there. Changing the kernel and updating the microcode probably didn't make a difference.

...
There should be something else in the dmesg command output.

In the beginning you should see something like this:

root@MiniPC:~# dmesg |grep -e DMAR -e IOMMU
[ 0.040555] ACPI: DMAR 0x0000000043515000 000088 (v02 INTEL EDK2 00000002 01000013)
[ 0.040583] ACPI: Reserving DMAR table memory at [mem 0x43515000-0x43515087]
[ 0.074692] DMAR: IOMMU enabled
while in the last rows of the DMAR listings you need to see something about Intel Virtualization:
[ 0.644102] DMAR: dmar0: Using Queued invalidation
[ 0.644105] DMAR: dmar1: Using Queued invalidation
[ 0.645624] DMAR: Intel(R) Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O
What's your bootloader setup? If you are using grub, have you enabled virtualization in there? intel_iommu is set to ON? You should see something like this inside /etc/default/grub

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet intel_iommu=on"
This is how my machine is set up, with two i225-v network cards passed through to OPNsense, with "all functions" and "rom-bar" enabled:

1670352717874.png

02:00 and 03:00 are shown in lspci as the ethernet controllers:

01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I225-V (rev 03)
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I225-V (rev 03)
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I225-V (rev 03)
04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I225-V (rev 03)
I'm currently running 8 days uptime in both proxmox and OPNsense (last restart was to add some ram). My box is a 4xi225-v b3 pentium gold 7505 from topton. Proxmox 7.3-3 with kernel 5.19.
 
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qQ4lXbYj

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Jun 15, 2021
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There should be something else in the dmesg command output.

In the beginning you should see something like this:



while in the last rows of the DMAR listings you need to see something about Intel Virtualization:


What's your bootloader setup? If you are using grub, have you enabled virtualization in there? intel_iommu is set to ON? You should see something like this inside /etc/default/grub



This is how my machine is set up, with two i225-v network cards passed through to OPNsense, with "all functions" and "rom-bar" enabled:

View attachment 25980

02:00 and 03:00 are shown in lspci as the ethernet controllers:



I'm currently running 8 days uptime in both proxmox and OPNsense (last restart was to add some ram). My box is a 4xi225-v b3 pentium gold 7505 from topton. Proxmox 7.3-3 with kernel 5.19.
Cheers man, I figured it out in the end. I don't know if you noticed my edit.
It had to do with the memory. I had assigned all the memory (16GB out of 16GB) to the VM and when I added the NIC pass through the host crashed soon after booting. Because I had it set to auto start at boot this meant that it was crashing all the time.
When I changed the memory from 16GB to 12GB (+ballooning) the VM worked without a hitch. At least initially
 

qwrty

New Member
Jul 18, 2018
21
3
3
Hello there :D
I'm looking to buy this kind of miniPC to change my ER4 router.
The N5105 is still recommendend over the N6005 ?
What about the J6413 option ?
(I will run 2 or 3 VM maximum => OpenWRT / Debian at least)
What about ES/QS CPU in the new ship unit ?
Nevermind, I bought a R86S o_O
 
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qwrty

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Jul 18, 2018
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I bought the G2 as I don't need wifi / bluetooth :D
And the difference between N5105 and N6005 is not that big.
N5105 is quite powerful.
edit: my only concern was the i225 for the 2.5G ports... but it will be fine ˆˆ
 
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DanielL

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Nov 3, 2022
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J+35 days after order, received this product from topton direct store
4*Intel I226, Pentium N5105
it includes liteon power adapter 48W and 1 SATA cable

AMI Version 2.22.1282 BIOS version JK4LV105 08/31/2022
I installed Corsair Vengeance 2x8Gb of RAM and 1 Crucial NVMe M2 1TB



and first thing i did is installing proxmox



Everything looks perfect and good quality





Power consumption at 230VAC plug : Stable below 9 Watts in idle (no USB, no keyboard, no screen, 1 RJ45)
 
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EasyRhino

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Aug 6, 2019
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just a little note regarding my power supply the "dajing" power supply with the light up blue led on it's name.

I think the efficiency is probably pretty decent?

I contrasted with a finsix laptop adapter that I had laying around. Which was marketed as being as fairly efficient.

I couldn't have my unit being truly idle (because it was the home internet router, and the smart plug needed wifi), but when mostly idle, the dajing PSU was reading 11W, and the finsix was reading 12W.
 

pinako

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Dec 7, 2022
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Greetings!

I am now the proud owner of two WooYi N5100/i225 boxes. Ordered 11/27 and received 12/6 = 9 days total. They came with the Delta 12 V 4 A power supply. I supplied my own RAM, NVMe SSD, and OPNsense installation.

This is my first foray into the world of fanless mini PCs. Imagine my surprise when I powered it up to find it consuming more than 10 W at the wall, sometimes almost 20 W, significantly more than my current air-cooled J4125/82571EB setup that's humming along at 8-9 W. The case was scalding hot, and I chalked it up to the heat sink effect. After some research, I found the attempts of @T.Sharp, @lukasig, et al. to curb power consumption. So far, I've been moderately successful following in your footsteps.

1. Setting the PCH-IO PCIe root port 1-8 ASPM to Auto brought the power usage down to 7.41 W (9.52 W with HDMI monitor and USB keyboard). After idling for several hours, the core temperatures gradually climbed from 47 °C to 50 °C. Curiously, the ACPI thermal sensor reported 27.9 °C, so I suspect it suffers from the infamous cooler gap or shoddy thermal paste job.

2. Setting the P-state EPP to 100 did not appreciably affect power usage (7.40 W), but the cores cooled down to 41 °C.
Bash:
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.1.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.2.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.3.epp=100
3. Finally, enabling the C2/C3 C-states immediately cut the power usage to 6.39 W, and the core temperatures were maintained at a cozy 40 °C.
Bash:
sysctl dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.1.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.2.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.3.cx_lowest=C3
These experiments were performed with a single Ethernet link up. Unplugging the cable further decreased the power usage from 6.39 W to 6.04 W. While this is not a very useful configuration for a router, it does hint at the amount of power each port requires.

The other BIOS/firmware settings did not make a significant difference for me, but deserve further investigation. One could use the Ctrl+F1 cheat code to reveal the hidden menu.

I suppose the cooler gap thermal paste issue is worth a look also. Even though 40 °C is quite acceptable, I'd like the box to do more than just sit around idly. Improving the thermal contact would make it a more effective space heater. Winter is coming.
 

oneplane

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2021
844
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Greetings!

I am now the proud owner of two WooYi N5100/i225 boxes. Ordered 11/27 and received 12/6 = 9 days total. They came with the 12 V 4 A Delta power supply. I supplied my own RAM, NVMe SSD, and OPNsense installation.

This is my first foray into the world of fanless mini PCs. Imagine my surprise when I powered it up to find it consuming more than 10 W at the wall, sometimes almost 20 W, significantly more than my current air-cooled J4125/82571EB setup that's humming along at 8-9 W. The case was scalding hot, and I chalked it up to the heat sink effect. After some research, I found the attempts of @T.Sharp, @lukasig, et al. to curb power consumption. So far, I've been moderately successful following in your footsteps.

1. Setting the PCH-IO PCIe root port 1-8 ASPM to Auto brought the power usage down to 7.41 W (9.52 W with HDMI monitor and USB keyboard). After idling for several hours, the core temperatures gradually climbed from 47 °C to 50 °C. Curiously, the ACPI thermal sensor reported 27.9 °C, so I suspect it suffers from the infamous cooler gap or shoddy thermal paste job.

2. Setting the P-state EPP to 100 did not appreciably affect power usage (7.40 W), but the cores cooled down to 41 °C.
Bash:
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.0.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.1.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.2.epp=100
sysctl dev.hwpstate_intel.3.epp=100
3. Finally, enabling the C2/C3 C-states immediately cut the power usage to 6.39 W, and the core temperatures were maintained at a cozy 40 °C.
Bash:
sysctl dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.1.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.2.cx_lowest=C3
sysctl dev.cpu.3.cx_lowest=C3
These experiments were performed with a single Ethernet link up. Unplugging the cable further decreased the power usage from 6.39 W to 6.04 W. While this is not a very useful configuration for a router, it does hint at the amount of power each port requires.

The other BIOS/firmware settings did not make a significant difference for me, but deserve further investigation. One could use the Ctrl+F1 cheat code to reveal the hidden menu.

I suppose the cooler gap thermal paste issue is worth a look also. Even though 40 °C is quite acceptable, I'd like the box to do more than just sit around idly. Improving the thermal contact would make it a more effective space heater. Winter is coming.
Are you using BSD instead of Linux? - Seems like it ;-) So that would explain at last some of the power management differences. I think the power governor that is standard in most Linux distros does some amount of extra power saving (including link speeds and link sleeps like ASPM for PCIe and also SATA andUSB), which would help with power consumption and temperature.

Something like PowerTOP for BSD would be great because we could actually compare the power management settings a bit easier and see what's different between the systems.
 
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pinako

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Dec 7, 2022
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Are you using BSD instead of Linux? - Seems like it ;-) So that would explain at last some of the power management differences. I think the power governor that is standard in most Linux distros does some amount of extra power saving (including link speeds and link sleeps like ASPM for PCIe and also SATA andUSB), which would help with power consumption and temperature.
Yup... OPNsense is based on FreeBSD. It seems Windows also has better power management. I'd like to try XCP-ng with OPNsense as a guest, which would require a different set of optimizations.
 

bndr

New Member
Oct 28, 2022
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My motherboard has GF-1449NP(i5-1135G7)-12 Ver 1.1 written on it and I am having issues with Proxmox. Another user (@bndr) had similar issues with it. The device works the first time you install proxmox and after power cycling it restarts every couple of minutes. You can boot into recovery mode without a problem though. I would like to try 2 things:
1. Use an older Proxmox with a different Linux kernel because I have seen a few issues relating to 5.15 which is the default in Proxmox 7.3
2. Check whether I can update the BIOS.
The problem with 2 is that I am not sure where to look for an updated version. The Changwang mini PC motherboards have a product number starting from CW does this mean that GF is from another manufacturer? And if so does anyone know which company GF is? Is Topton the motherboard and chassis maker?
My issues had to do with the power supply that was provided. The CPU was too power-hungry for the power supply. Limiting the CPU to use a max of 28W in BIOS was a solution.
 

qQ4lXbYj

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Jun 15, 2021
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My issues had to do with the power supply that was provided. The CPU was too power-hungry for the power supply. Limiting the CPU to use a max of 28W in BIOS was a solution.
With that said let me say thanks to everyone here who helped me not have a ~300euro brick on my desk :p
 

oneplane

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Jul 23, 2021
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Yup... OPNsense is based on FreeBSD. It seems Windows also has better power management. I'd like to try XCP-ng with OPNsense as a guest, which would require a different set of optimizations.
Ah, I see. It's actually in your post but I somehow must have missed that part. Makes sense now ;-) I think XCP-ng might work fine as long as you don't use driver domains. Proxmox has been tested too, but that uses KVM of course and not Xen.
 

skimikes

Member
Jun 27, 2022
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I now have 3 of these interesting little boxes:
1. N6005+4x i225 CW-N6000 (Topton) - This one has been my primary firewall device since May.
2. N5105+6x i225 CW-N11 (Topton) - This one has been a backup/toy.
3. J6413+6x i226 CW-J6-L6 (CWWK) - Just received this model this week.

The N6005 unit has, thus far, been the lowest power draw of them all sitting around 7.8w while mostly idle (just background IoT traffic).
The N6005 and N5105 both only "officially" support 16GB. As long as you don't have a monitor plugged in, they'll run with 64GB. Try to do anything with graphics and they'll fall over with >16GB installed.

The J6413 officially only supports 32GB according to Intel's product description page, but I've had absolutely zero issue with running this system with 64GB. The unit came with a BIOS dated 9/XX/2022 (I forget the exact day) and it appears to have had issues exposing the PTT/TPM to the OS. Downloaded a new BIOS from Changwang's website dated 11/11/2022 and the TPM is now exposed (and I think the new BIOS added the Restore after AC/Power Loss option - at least I couldn't seem to find it on the old BIOS). So far I've been able to install Windows 10, Windows 11, Fedora 37, pfsense, and Proxmox for various testing purposes.

The N6005 and N5105 both came from Topton and I had to repaste those units because both would immediately spike to 93C under prime95. CWWK seems to have done a much better job and the J6413 did not require repasting. The prime95 temps looked good although I don't remember what the numbers were off the top of my head. Using 1 stick or 2 sticks of memory didn't cause power usage to creep upwards, and adding a second stick of memory also didn't make an appreciable difference in memory bandwidth, at least in terms of the numbers memtest86 reported. Haven't had a chance to run something like Sandra yet to get more accurate numbers.

The J6413, in about a half a day of Proxmox testing, has not experienced the issue that I have with the N6005 and N5105 models. On the N-models, with the combination of pfsense on Proxmox with C-states enabled in BIOS and PowerD enabled in pfsense, I can cause those hosts to lock up within a few minutes. Proxmox + C-states disabled + PowerD disabled in pfsense has been stable for me for months at a time on the N-models. Bare metal pfsense on the N-models with C-states enabled and PowerD enabled (hiadaptive) also performs flawlessly.

I really like that the J6413 doesn't act sketchy with 64GB of RAM (memtest86 verified). The thing I don't like about it is that it takes mSATA rather than m.2 as the market for mSATA is pretty barren. CWWK shipped a SATA+power cable combo with the unit but the power cable has the wrong plug type. The unit provides a mini 2-pin for SATA power but the cable they shipped wants a 4-pin.

There's a very small on/off toggle on the J6413 that's described as "incoming call self-start switch" so I guess if you opt to put a wireless and sim card in it, you can remotely power it up.

All three units let you disable Intel ME from BIOS.
 

DanielL

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Nov 3, 2022
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it would be intresting to see if you can sustain full clocks during prime95 or other tools on PL1 - 20W ....
follow up

Test with Prime95 Version 30.8 build 17





bios untouched - temp after run 15 min of prime
...
58 degrees become 62 degrees after 30 min, 66 degrees after 60 min, 69 degrees after 120 min
The case itself was 19 degrees before startup and become 42 degrees after 60min
This is the proof that the heat dissipation is correct
...
Power measured at plug around 24W during test instead of 8W idle
 
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PigLover

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FYI, under the "f2" options in htop you can enable display of per-core temps and clocks. Makes doing this kind of evaluation much simpler (one screen).
 
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