Topton Jasper Lake Quad i225V Mini PC Report

[p3kty]

Hi! Newbie here. First post on this forum.

I'm using a unit from WooYi at AE for about 3 weeks.

Here's a BIOS firmware update for the 1338NP-12 on a Chinese forum (I don't speak Chinese, and haven't registered at that forum to download the firmware dump yet):

https://bbs-cnction-com.translate.goog/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=570&_x_tr_sl=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Anyone tried this BIOS image? Seems it is for a 2xHDMI variant. Mine has one HDMI, one DP. Silkscreen on the board tells it's 1338NP-12 though..



Is it OK to upload the file in that chinese site?

 

[oneplane]

Not entirely sure, normally a UEFI firmware image has all sorts of checks and protections to make sure it's only loaded on the correct model number with the correct flash chip ID, but with this... "less sophisticated" development process of theirs it might not be as protected and safe to do.

If you have a backup of the firmware it should be fine, but if you're not sure and have no recovery method it might be best to let someone with the exact board but with recovery methods try it first.

 

[p3kty]

Thanks for the reply. I don't expect the seller and/or the manufacturer(bluetech maybe?) would provide a bios image for the specific Techvision variant board. Until that very specific image shows up on the internet I would stay at current v11.

but with this... "less sophisticated" development process

Yes. Very questionable.

 

[oneplane]

Personally I just get a SOIC clip out and dump the SPI ROM but that's not for everyone I suppose

 

[Amazing2]

First post.
I wanted to thank @ReturnedSword for the thread. VERY helpful.

I initially purchased a Topton N5105 w/ DP but no USB-C ("v2"?)

160.05US $ 44% OFF|Top 4 Intel I225 2500m Lan Solid-built Fanless 2.5g Soft Router Celeron N5105 2xddr4 Nvme Dp Hd-mi Pfsense Firewall Pc Opnsense - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I cancelled the order and will get the "v3" instead (USB-C and 2 NVMe).

 

[cheeseburger]

First post.
I wanted to thank @ReturnedSword for the thread. VERY helpful.

I initially purchased a Topton N5105 w/ DP but no USB-C ("v2"?)

160.05US $ 44% OFF|Top 4 Intel I225 2500m Lan Solid-built Fanless 2.5g Soft Router Celeron N5105 2xddr4 Nvme Dp Hd-mi Pfsense Firewall Pc Opnsense - Barebone & Mini Pc - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I cancelled the order and will get the "v3" instead (USB-C and 2 NVMe).

I think I've found yet another V3 iteration HERE that features TPM 2.0 support (in red under the "Product Highlight" section).
I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the other versions yet.

 

[burtal]

I think I've found yet another V3 iteration HERE that features TPM 2.0 support (in red under the "Product Highlight" section).
I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the other versions yet.

this looks like the one i got ....which in descriptions does not mentions TPM support and i didnt see any mentions of it in BIOS ...just secure boot bla bla .... but while i was running windows 10 on it for testing the nagging you are ready for win 11 kept popping up.
So if win 11 is of your concern i think there will be no problems running it .
But keep in mind that running windows in this boxes makes a lot more heat than running so light linux distros or containers

 

[ReturnedSword]

I think I've found yet another V3 iteration HERE that features TPM 2.0 support (in red under the "Product Highlight" section).
I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the other versions yet.

According to Topton's rep, it would need to specifically be the "X4C" V3 model (currently only N5105, but N6005 version available in August), such as this one (check the item description):

191.23US $ 38% OFF|New 11th Gen Celeron N5105 2.5G pfSense Router 4*lntel i226 Nics 2*DDR4 NVMe TPM Fanless Soft Router Mini PC Firewall VPN Server| | - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Note that some V3 model listings don't state in the description that it has TPM support. At this point it is safer to not assume and buy from the listing that explicitly states TPM support.

this looks like the one i got ....which in descriptions does not mentions TPM support and i didnt see any mentions of it in BIOS ...just secure boot bla bla .... but while i was running windows 10 on it for testing the nagging you are ready for win 11 kept popping up.
So if win 11 is of your concern i think there will be no problems running it .
But keep in mind that running windows in this boxes makes a lot more heat than running so light linux distros or containers

The BIOS on these units is all over the place. On Intel platforms, fTPM is called "PTT" or "Intel PTT." Once you find it, it should be changed to firmware TPM rather than dTPM/discrete TPM.

Topton told me that unless explicitly mentioned, none of these units based on Changwang or Bluetech boards will have TPM support. @oneplane gave insight that these requires certificates from Intel, which the board makers don't want to pay for, but then they are also too lazy to remove the option from the BIOS.

By the way, most of the TPM stuff on generic Jasper Lake from China won't have Intel PTT endorsement (it's expensive) and without an SPI TPM (or LPC TPM) there will not be a TPM available. Just because they are lazy and only do the bare minimum to get the UEFI running doesn't mean all the buttons work (like you have experienced ).

 

[oneplane]

Yeah, there is a difference between the various TPM implementations as well, LPC TPMs are generally easy to hack (there is some ICE FPGA project for that), eSPI and SPI is different, and then there is the fTPM which is essentially a software-TPM built in to the PCH running together with the Intel Management Engine (or CSME as it's now called).

Windows 11 generally doesn't care which one you have, as long as it's TPM 2.0 compliant (or TPM 1.2 if you want to gamble for enterprise support). On the other hand, if you personally don't care either, any TPM will do. But while we're on the topic of Windows; this type of passively cooled low-tier embedded system really isn't all that great for desktops and constant user interaction. They are more useful as a building block for a specific task, like using it just to stream a video feed to a billboard or as a HTPC with supported hardware-decodable media, or perhaps as a Kubernetes node, or as a network appliance for firewalling and routing.

If someone wants to run a desktop OS on it, even Gnome 3 and just a webbrowser will be better off with a fan. But at that point you might as well get a normal fan-cooled box. The big benefit of this type of ODM box from China is low power, no moving parts, appliance-like form factor, and most of those properties don't lend themselves for non-appliance usage.

I'm still hoping Ryzen Embedded with Vega graphics makes a broader appearance, be it for the graphics cores or the 10GbE on-board ports. That'd be a killer combo if it ever reaches the super low price point of the current Jasper Lake 6000 series.

 

[dazagrt]

According to Topton's rep, it would need to specifically be the "X4C" V3 model (currently only N5105, but N6005 version available in August), such as this one (check the item description):

I've been searching for the V3 model in 6 port but I seem to be chasing my tail, are they out, or is that in the "coming soon" basket as well?

 

[ReturnedSword]

I've been searching for the V3 model in 6 port but I seem to be chasing my tail, are they out, or is that in the "coming soon" basket as well?

I don’t have any new information regarding a new 6 model. The “V3” 4 port model uses a Changwang JK 4L board. What we are calling the “V2” boards with 4 and 6 i225V variants are Bluetech boards 1338NP-12 and 1338NP-20.

 

[dazagrt]

I don’t have any new information regarding a new 6 model. The “V3” 4 port model uses a Changwang JK 4L board. What we are calling the “V2” boards with 4 and 6 i225V variants are Bluetech boards 1338NP-12 and 1338NP-20.

Ahhh, now I understand - cheers.

 

[enzotekk]

I am also waiting for the -v3- 6 port model!

I am more and more convinced to take the model with the Changwang motherboard, because I saw the section dedicated to bios on the site.
Very nice, there is the bios to download and also the tutorial on how to do it!

BIOS files

FMI01 N5105 N6005 JK 4L-V01 CBOX 2022-8-9更新（BIOS适用于V3 V4版本，其它版本请勿更新)

刷机前请确认主板是否一致2022/6/7修复修复部份M.2 VNMe硬盘在转接板下识别问题。优化CPU电压功耗。添加BIOS蜂鸣器开关选项。修复BIOS自动引导。由于时间关系，下一版本的BIOS将修复TF卡作为引导项问题；如你有更好的建议，欢迎联系销售客服加入畅网微控硬件技术群。蜂鸣器在BIOS下开关选项刷机视频教程请复制到抖音上打开： 0:/ N5095/N5105/N6005刷BIOS 教程

www.changwang.com

Tutorial

https://www.douyin.com/search/0%3A%2F%20N5095%2FN5105%2FN6005%E5%88%B7BIOS%20%E6%95%99%E7%A8%8B?s

 

[oneplane]

I wonder if the 6 port models make sense, does the calculation of PCIe SoC bandwidth hold up vs. de bandwidth required for those ports?

 

[cheeseburger]

If someone wants to run a desktop OS on it, even Gnome 3 and just a webbrowser will be better off with a fan. But at that point you might as well get a normal fan-cooled box. The big benefit of this type of ODM box from China is low power, no moving parts, appliance-like form factor, and most of those properties don't lend themselves for non-appliance usage.

Fair point. I'm looking at replacing my aging Qotom box running pfsense. I feel the 2.5G ports, newer SOC, and faster storage options are just enough of an upgrade to warrant the purchase (I also want a new toy). That said, these newer boxes seem to be evolving monthly (e.g. TPM support, dual RAM slots, UDE LAN filters, dual NVME etc.) and I want to avoid buying mid-upgrade cycle if possible.

 

[Lance Longreen]

update: my boxes arrived and i got time to check them the last days:

1. the wooyi store box got a newer board revision and a proper lg power supply, but they replaced the copper heatsink between chassis and mobo with aluminum... and cheap thermal paste > instant 105°C and throttle. lapped it, repasted and set pl2 to 15w. thermal problems solved.

2. the topton unit got a jsl mobo, cheap noname power supply (us plug) and a travel adapter (eu/even cheaper)... but thermals are great

3. both boxes like dualrank memory, went up to 32gb each. Crucial 16GB 3200MHz CT16G4SFD832A and CT16G4SFRA32A (careful could be single rank) modules work.

4. both boxes got retail cpus and intel i225-v3 chips

5. 1st boot with new memory installed triggers memory training (could take up to 2-3mins till post)

you want a proper power supply (MEAN WELL GST60A12-P1J or Mean Well GSM36E12-P1J) also you need a 2.1mm to 2.5mm plug, and some bios tuning and DR memory. power consumption is great on both boxes, idle under *nix ~3.9W (see attached vid).

Do these boxes run with both dual rank and single rank mem modules ?

I am thinking to order 2x8gb modules for my N6005 that is on the way.

Crucial CT4G4SFS624A 4GB Memory.: Amazon.de: Computer & Accessories

Would these work ?

 

[yxman]

Runs with both. I tested 8GB SR (CT8G4SFRA32A) and 16GB DR (CT16G4SFD832A) modules, the FRA32A are random picked, could be both sr or dr.

The 832A are advertised as dualrank.

 

[ReturnedSword]

If someone wants to run a desktop OS on it, even Gnome 3 and just a webbrowser will be better off with a fan. But at that point you might as well get a normal fan-cooled box. The big benefit of this type of ODM box from China is low power, no moving parts, appliance-like form factor, and most of those properties don't lend themselves for non-appliance usage.

I'm still hoping Ryzen Embedded with Vega graphics makes a broader appearance, be it for the graphics cores or the 10GbE on-board ports. That'd be a killer combo if it ever reaches the super low price point of the current Jasper Lake 6000 series.

There's also the option for the ODM to go with the 6W Jasper Lake, e.g. N5200/N6000, which would still be cheaper than 6W Elkhart Lake. Tbh 10W, even 15W CPUs are more than easy to passively cool if the chassis is designed appropriately. It wouldn't even require exotic methods, just better thought put towards the design. For example, better contact and transfer from the CPU + PCH to a copper plate, then as little as 4, perhaps even only 2 heatpipes distributing that heat to the larger aluminum mass of the chassis.

The biggest design wins Ryzen/Epyc Embedded have gotten so far are interactive kiosks or electronic gaming machines. There is so much potential there with the integrated SFP+ MAC. There are so many people who still dunk on Realtek (which has gotten much better); AMD's NIC implementations are still largely an unknown. Still, I wish we had options.

I wonder if the 6 port models make sense, does the calculation of PCIe SoC bandwidth hold up vs. de bandwidth required for those ports?

Keep in mind that Jasper Lake only has 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes exposed, so there's only so much that can be done. Intel has potential to make a 2.5 GbE class cheap NIC that has multiple MACs to enable a dual or quad port NIC, thus using up less PCIe lanes. Intel hasn't released any information regarding how the Jasper Lake PCIe lanes can be configured, but I'm guessing it would be quite similar to Gemini Lake's PCIe configuration options. I don't think Jasper Lake even has the ability to output 8 x1 lanes, rather it may have the additional ability to output 6 x1 + 1 x2 compared to Gemini Lake, inferring from the Jasper Lake 6 x i225V boxes.

The i225V also is limited to PCIe 2.0 x1, so it's massively wasting each of the Jasper Lake x1 lanes. A single PCIe 2.0 lane can fit two 2.5 GbE NICs, with some degradation of maximum speed (Needs 5 Gbps, PCIe 2.0 x1 is 4 Gbps). A PCIe 3.0 lane has enough bandwidth for 3 x 2.5 GbE NICs, with bandwidth to spare.

 

[ramst3r]

Hi everyone , first post here.

There seems to be a lack of info regarding the 6 port Topton N6005 device so here's some photos of mine, which arrived today, 10 days EARLY.

Given where this thread started, I thought it prudent to give the unit a visual inspection immediately. Everything looks pretty normal to me with no excess flux, qty of thermal paste, alignment of copper pad to CPU etc. EXCEPT that there is no thermal paste/pad AT ALL between the NIC chips and the aluminium heatsink (refer photos). I am a noob at this stuff but this doesn't look right to me. Anyone care to comment?

I note that the motherboard is labelled CW-N11 v1.0 so I am hoping that while it is v1.0 it is actually incorporating the design improvements of the 4 port v2/v3 versions (given that the 6 port came out later). Blind hope.

This is my first leap of faith in buying hardware of this nature from Aliexpress (thanks @Patrick!). Gulp.

Unfortunately, I can't fire it up the device yet as I am still waiting on my RAM to arrive.

 

[dazagrt]

Hi everyone , first post here.

Unfortunately, I can't fire it up the device yet as I am still waiting on my RAM to arrive.

You look to be an Aussie, if you are near Brisbane I can lend you some RAM for the weekend so you can have a play with it. How much did you pay for that one?
Thanks for the photos too.