Supermicro 825: converting fixed 3.5" tray to dual 2.5" hot swap?

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BLinux

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has anyone tried converting the fixed 3.5" trays on the top row of the SC 825 chassis into a dual 2.5" hot swap with solutions like this:

SATA Mobile Racks KF-251-BK - KWI Technology Inc.

I'd like to add a pair for mirrored OS SSDs or cache drives.

For reference, this is what the 825 looks like:
supermicro-geh-2u-cse-825tq-600lpb-cse-825tq-600lpb.jpg
The two "vented" openings on the left of the top row are actually removable trays where you can mount a fixed (non-hotswap) 3.5" drive.
 
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Terry Kennedy

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has anyone tried converting the fixed 3.5" trays on the top row of the SC 825 chassis into a dual 2.5" hot swap with solutions like this:

SATA Mobile Racks KF-251-BK - KWI Technology Inc.
http://www.kingwin.com/kf-251-bk/
Unfortunately, the MCP-220-82502-0B tray that has the mounting holes for the 3.5" drive or hot-swap caddy as well as the retention clip that holds it in the chassis, also has a permanently-attached front face with the pattern of square holes as shown in your picture. This is the most detailed picture I could find:

I can't tell if those are screws or rivets holding the front face on. It may also be part of the same piece of metal, just folded over and then riveted. If you already have the chassis, pop the tray out and take a look.
 

BLinux

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that shouldn't be hard to cut out even if it isn't removable.

i'm more concerned whether attempting to fit a dual 2.5" solution in there might have other obstructions that aren't easy to cut out?
 

K D

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They are removable screws. I just checked it out. You should be able to add a fixed multiple 2.5 in 3.5 adapter easily. However if you are trying to get a hotswap then you may run into issues where Thr front will not align with the bezel and may need some custom holes drilled to accommodate the screws.

D01E15EB-5E5D-4B4B-99A1-550E1D33C9DF.jpeg 7F8A7F3B-E247-4A0C-8D29-19D17069B551.jpeg B9A00388-BBD2-4158-AFB1-C390AB1B5296.jpeg
 

BLinux

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They are removable screws. I just checked it out. You should be able to add a fixed multiple 2.5 in 3.5 adapter easily. However if you are trying to get a hotswap then you may run into issues where Thr front will not align with the bezel and may need some custom holes drilled to accommodate the screws.

View attachment 6734 View attachment 6735 View attachment 6736
thanks! I took a look at mine last night and noticed the same.

so, are you saying that those dual 2.5 to 3.5 enclosures like in your photo would mount behind the surface of the face of the server using the usual screw holes for 3.5" drives? how far back is that? the enclosure you have in the picture seems like it would still work; you'd just have to reach further back. I can see units that have a lever might not work and might hit the side wall of the tray.
 

BLinux

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The one I have won't work. It's a floppy to 2.5 bay. I see about half to 3/4 inches clearance in the front. Units without a lever(or a hotswap mechanism will work)

Something like this

Sabrent 2.5 Inch to 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Disk Drive Mounting Kit (BK-HDDH) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G57BN1M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_piM1zbHQVNS5P
Thanks @K D . Are you saying the unit you have won't work because the front face is too recessed to reach in an pull out the 2.5" drive? Or is there some other issue?

I'm considering the Kingwin unit I linked to above. The lever does not seem to extend pass the side wall dimensions. And if I have to, I can drill holes in the unit to mount it further up to be flush with the face of the server. I don't think drilling the tray will work easily unless I countersink the screw hole and use countersunk flat head screws.
 

K D

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Thanks @K D . Are you saying the unit you have won't work because the front face is too recessed to reach in an pull out the 2.5" drive?
This is what I meant. It will be recessed inside and you may not be able to reach inside and pull out the drive.

And if I have to, I can drill holes in the unit to mount it further up to be flush with the face of the server. I don't think drilling the tray will work easily unless I countersink the screw hole and use countersunk flat head screws.
This should work.
 

K D

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I think if you are willing to drill a couple of holes to match the screw hole pattern of 3.5 drives, this (or any of the 3.5 mobile racks) will fit flush against the front bezel.

Please post pics of the outcome.
 

BLinux

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reporting back on results... i think it came out decently, but i'm missing an 8-inch 4-pin molex to SATA cable... just also discovered that these type of cables can pose a fire hazard; which is rather troublesome and I'm not sure what to get.

Here's the dual 2.5" drive tray test fitted in the 3.5" tray:
IMG_20171007_175101.jpg

IMG_20171007_175113.jpg

there are a few different ways to "secure" it to the 3.5" tray. the original holes for the HDD doesn't work too well. drilling holes in the 3.5" tray isn't a great option as you need to countersink them or take other measures to make sure the screw head sits flush so the tray can slide back into the chassis. drilling holes in the dual 2.5" adapter is fine, but i also found out that there's enough of a gap between the dual 2.5" adapter and the 3.5" tray that it would squeeze the 3.5" tray enough that it will no longer engage the latch in the chassis. the workaround would be to slide thin washers between the dual 2.5" adapter and the 3.5" tray, but i didn't have any on-hand.

instead, I decided to use the screws that hold the vented face plate of the 3.5" tray and drilled some holes in the back plastic face plate of the dual 2.5" adapter. drilled the holes with 3/32 drill bit, then tapped some 6/32 threads:
IMG_20171007_183127.jpg
IMG_20171007_183149.jpg

here's the final result:
IMG_20171007_175207.jpg
IMG_20171007_175216.jpg
IMG_20171007_175311.jpg
IMG_20171007_183702.jpg
 

frogtech

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Wow! This is such an incredible find.

@B Linux will that fit in the typical 3.5" hot swap opening with the backplane removed?

I'm also wondering, if these are used with the standard 3.5" hot swap bay, they obviously don't need to be installed in a supermicro hotswap tray right? In fact I'm not even sure it'd be possible.
 
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BLinux

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Wow! This is such an incredible find.

@B Linux will that fit in the typical 3.5" hot swap opening with the backplane removed?

I'm also wondering, if these are used with the standard 3.5" hot swap bay, they obviously don't need to be installed in a supermicro hotswap tray right? In fact I'm not even sure it'd be possible.
@frogtech the device will fit dimension wise. like i said, it was actually a little smaller than a 3.5" hard drive, so based on that I would image it would fit. however, in the regular hot swap bays, I'm not sure how you would secure it?

I wouldn't recommend this solution for the main data drives though... the dual 2.5" adapter tray doesn't have great ventilation. it's okay for OS boot drive I think as activity isn't as intense.
 

frogtech

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Oh right, I didn't think about how you would secure it. That is kind of an annoying fact that has to be considered, damn.

edit: I just realized that I have an advantage by wanting to adapt these for the Supermicro 825M, since the 3x3.5" drive cage is completely removable, I have full access to the sides and bottom so I can tap holes or come up with some other method of securing a rack into the slot.
 
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BLinux

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frogtech

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reporting back on results... i think it came out decently, but i'm missing an 8-inch 4-pin molex to SATA cable... just also discovered that these type of cables can pose a fire hazard; which is rather troublesome and I'm not sure what to get.

Here's the dual 2.5" drive tray test fitted in the 3.5" tray:
View attachment 6783

View attachment 6784

there are a few different ways to "secure" it to the 3.5" tray. the original holes for the HDD doesn't work too well. drilling holes in the 3.5" tray isn't a great option as you need to countersink them or take other measures to make sure the screw head sits flush so the tray can slide back into the chassis. drilling holes in the dual 2.5" adapter is fine, but i also found out that there's enough of a gap between the dual 2.5" adapter and the 3.5" tray that it would squeeze the 3.5" tray enough that it will no longer engage the latch in the chassis. the workaround would be to slide thin washers between the dual 2.5" adapter and the 3.5" tray, but i didn't have any on-hand.

instead, I decided to use the screws that hold the vented face plate of the 3.5" tray and drilled some holes in the back plastic face plate of the dual 2.5" adapter. drilled the holes with 3/32 drill bit, then tapped some 6/32 threads:
View attachment 6788
View attachment 6789

here's the final result:
View attachment 6785
View attachment 6786
View attachment 6787
View attachment 6790
@BLinux

are the openings the same size for the hot swap 3.5" bays and the fixed 3.5" bays?

and how does the fixed 3.5" tray secure itself in the chassis? Does it use screws on the side of the chassis itself or is it secured via retention from the tray in the slot itself?

Can you do a test fit to see if the fixed 3.5" tray will fit in a hot swap bay?
 
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BLinux

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@BLinux

are the openings the same size for the hot swap 3.5" bays and the fixed 3.5" bays?

and how does the fixed 3.5" tray secure itself in the chassis? Does it use screws on the side of the chassis itself or is it secured via retention from the tray in the slot itself?

Can you do a test fit to see if the fixed 3.5" tray will fit in a hot swap bay?
the 3.5" hot swap bays and the 3.5" fixed trays are "roughly" the same size, they may be off by a millimeter or so. Both are designed to hold 3.5" HDD, and both have to account for the thickness of the hot-swap tray or the fixed tray, so the dimensions are very close. all that said, i'm not sure why you are asking?

as for the 3.5" fixed tray, towards the back of the tray there's a spring clip on one side that latches to a part of the chassis. when you push the tray all the way in, it clicks and latches on securely. to release, you pull on the spring from the inside of the chassis and push it towards the front. no screws involved. however, this is the problem I ran into fitting the 3.5" dual 2.5" tray/adapter... those 3.5" dual 2.5" trays are meant for 3.5" floppy drives bays, not HDD bays, so the screw locations are different and slightly narrower. if you, like I did initially, naively just screw them in with 2 holes, it squeezes the 3.5" fixed tray which puts the retention spring clip out of position and it won't latch. that's what I was referring to in one of my posts above.

I don't think the 3.5" fixed tray will work in the hot swap bay... even if the front dimensions fit, meaning you can insert it, the length wouldn't work and would hit the backplane. you would have to modify it, perhaps cutting off the spring clip or the entire back section of the 3.5 fixed tray, or remove the backplane.
 

frogtech

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What I'm trying to see / accomplish is if I can take one of the 'fixed' trays, remove the front, mesh thing, screw in a 3.5 to 2.5 hotswap mobile rack / cage (icydock or similar), and see if it will slide in securely into a hot swap bay, to "convert" a 3 x 3.5" hot swap, to a 9 x 2.5" hot swap(using 3 mobile racks in place of the 3 standard 3.5" hot swap)

for this i have removed the backplane from my drive bays so the rear is completely open for me to plug into the mobile racks.

the chassis in question is this: SC825MTQ-R700LPB | 2U | Chassis | Products | Super Micro Computer, Inc.

it uses the same hot swap trays. my inkling is that i will not be able to use the latching mechanism to secure the tray since the 3 drive cage on the 825M is obviously not designed for it. but at least i would have something that fits in the same width / length as the the original trays, that i can screw a cage to, and slide it in. i'll just have to make a mod like mentioned above, e.g. extra screw holes, and find some kind of way to adapt the retaining mechanism.

i think i see what you mean though. this is what i bought : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BI0XDTK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

you're saying those devices are for 3.5" floppy bays? if so that makes sense.
 
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