Suggestions on low power minimum x8, 6G HBA. Low cost is a bonus.

[tomtom13]

Hi ,as in the tittle, I would love your input on some cheap and cheerful HBA, that will have:
minimum 6G per lane,
minimum 8 external lanes (connector doesn't matter) but 16 lanes would be lovely.
pcie interface that can pull this, but not more than x8.
not be buggy as hell to make me loose reminder of my hair while dumping those in bulk in the cluster.

I've tried searching around, however most of lists don't include idle / max power consumption.
I'm trying to get those into SFF nodes to use with sata ssd's. Yes I know, sata with sas is blasphemy for some, but it's cost effective and 8x sata on single node won't saturate 20 gig uplink.

 

[nexox]

If you don't intend to use SAS drives or an expander then you might want to look at a SATA controller, I don't know exactly how much power they use, but the heatsinks are generally a whole lot smaller than SAS HBAs.

 

[tomtom13]

If you don't intend to use SAS drives or an expander then you might want to look at a SATA controller, I don't know exactly how much power they use, but the heatsinks are generally a whole lot smaller than SAS HBAs.

In general "it's all about the cabling". Sata controllers don't usually have the ability to connect to external devices. SAS does give a nice longer distances cabling options that allow one to exit the unit - if you remember I've mentioned that I intend to install those in SFF unit and have drives in eternal enclosure. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[nexox]

Ah yeah I did miss the external portion - unfortunately SAS only gets longer connection distances when connected to SAS disks (or a SAS expander, which uses even more power.)

 

[tomtom13]

Technically it's going to be a sas backplane, and yes it will consume more power. My concern is power INSIDE of the sff - I just don't want to go down the road of extra cooling in the box ( like some people going with melanox6 and jet engine trying to cool it )

 

[nexox]

A passive backplane still won't do it, you need an expander backplane (12-15W extra power consumption,) or SAS disks. An HBA based on the LSI SAS3008 (popular model number 9300-8e, but there are plenty of OEM versions with their own model numbers) would probably be about what you want, later generations added (crappy) NVMe support and the power consumption increased.

 

[tomtom13]

Trust me it will I can even show you few zfs pools spinning right now on sas -> passive backplane -> sata disks But I don't want to argue about this thing here, what I appreciate is the info about the 3008, because at this moment I was looking at 9500-16e, since those have pretty small radiator it would imply lower power consumption than 9300-16e. Are you stating that 9305 was worse than 9300, or was the 9500 worse ?

Also I've got a good experience with that generation, my X11SSH-CTF mobos are rocking with it and over the years I've had zero problems with those.

 

[nexox]

Trust me it will I can even show you few zfs pools spinning right now on sas -> passive backplane -> sata disks

That works, up to 1 meter of cabling, maybe you get lucky and it goes a bit further, but many, many people have had issues. The longer cable length allowed for SAS is because it runs at a higher signal voltage and so can overcome more capacitance in the data conductors, but SATA drives only run the standard SATA voltage, even when they're connected to a SAS controller.

If you're looking at 16 port cards then you need the 9305, the 9300-16e is actually two 8 port controllers and has awful power consumption. I guess I haven't looked at the 9500 series yet, but the 9400 was a step backwards, I kind of assumed Broadcom would continue to make a mess of their acquisition, because that is all they know how to do.

 

[tomtom13]

That works, up to 1 meter of cabling, maybe you get lucky and it goes a bit further, but many, many people have had issues.

Yeah, not intending to run anything long, but sata outside of the case would be just eaten alive with the surrounding noise.

Anyway, again, thanks for the info about the 9400 etc.

About the broadcom, man where do I begin. I worked with a guy that for last 10 years work from Broadcom and managing one of their devisions and his opinion of the whole conglomerate is (and I quote directly) "it's a cluster f***". I've worked with their wifi chips, with their drivers with their mesh networking and oh boy I've never seen such a buggy memory leaking terribly implemented dog s**** in my life. Those imbeciles are capable of creating drivers that violate kernel write & execute memory locks, which in my honest opinion is an award worthy level of incompetence. But I think I should stop before this will turn into [sic] broadcon rant.

 

[nexox]

I have heard that SATA run over external cabling works, but with all the adapters and stuff you use up that 1 meter of length awfully quickly. Possibly the greatest benefit of a SAS HBA in this situation is that it's already got the right ports and uses only a couple cm of your total cable length. Still those quad twinax cables aren't exactly flexible so under 1 meter they're kinda difficult to connect to anything.

 

[frankharv]

Low Power or Low Cost.
Pick One.

Pardon Our Interruption...

Pardon Our Interruption...

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/difference-between-lsi-sas-9300-16i-and-lsi-sas-9305-16i.10306/

I think SAS9200 is too old to consider.

 

[sth]

but the 9400 was a step backwards

Any details/links to share how it went backwards please?

 

[frankharv]

Any details/links to share how it went backwards please?

My beef is cables on sas9400. They are very expensive. This was when LSI/Avago/Broadcom introduced Tri-Mode in to the line.

That could be considered a distraction when disk controllers are not needed for NVMe.

Most storage users prefer IT mode for software RAIDs so what is the advantage to using a controller for NVMe?
Lack of bifurcation support on older boards is the only use case I have for NVMe on LSI.


Jack of all trades or master of none?
New connector with every new scheme. Check.

 

[tomtom13]

Jack of all trades or master of none?

That quote works only for people. But in the case 9400 it smells like it was misguided design (driven by marketing ahead of engineering).

 

[nexox]

Specifically on power consumption, at least going by the spec sheets, the 9400-16 uses about 25% more power than the 9305-16 for approximately zero benefit in a purely SAS/SATA system.

 

[tomtom13]

So 9400 uses more than 9300 and that one more than 9500.

 

[nexox]

The 9305 is actually a different controller from the 9300, the 9300 can only do 8 ports and so the 16 port card has two, which can't even be powered by from the slot, they have an aux power connector, which is never a good sign, then the 9305 comes in at a stated 13W, the 9400 says 17W nominal and 25W max, and apparently the 9500 is actually an improvement, with a (claimed) typical power consumption under 9W: https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/BC-0510EN

 

[sth]

Thanks. I’m seeing 16.2W for 9305-16i and 11.95W for 9400-16i on Broadcom tech docs.

 

[nexox]

Thanks. I’m seeing 16.2W for 9305-16i and 11.95W for 9400-16i on Broadcom tech docs.

https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/pub-005245 says 13W for the 9305-16e, and I guess I may have been looking at a RAID version of the 9400 to find the 17W power consumption.

 

[tomtom13]

Hey, while we're on the subject - any thread listing some active backplanes that can do line multiplication ? ie plug 4 lanes and have it serving more than 4 disks ?