Suggestion needed for BIG SATA SSDs

[Bjorn Smith]

Hi,

I could use some help in finding enterprise grade SATA SSD's in capacity >=2TB - as in suggestion for model names etc.

I need them for a ZFS mirror that will be used to write backups from my veeam servers - so they need decent endurance, since I will be writing around 300GB/week +/-

Speed does not matter much - as long as read/write are above 250MB/s - what matters is the IOPS - since I will be rsyncing the backups over the internet and apparently rsync is a bitch and requires a lot of IOPS.

Price needs to be LOW of course - otherwise I would just have bought two intel D3-s4510 and be done with it.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Cheap for me would be around £200 per disk, depending on size of course.

 

[Evan]

What you want is kind of hard, you can get decent endurance MLC SATA from Intel,Samsung,Micron but it’s not going to be highe IOP’s or endurance, for that your looking at the 1.6tb and 3.2tb drives but they are mostly all SAS.

 

[Rand__]

Best bet probably would be Samsung's, they can be seen it the 3.84T version often... but cheap might pose a challenge here

 

[Bjorn Smith]

Best bet probably would be Samsung's, they can be seen it the 3.84T version often... but cheap might pose a challenge here

What models?

 

[Bjorn Smith]

What you want is kind of hard, you can get decent endurance MLC SATA from Intel,Samsung,Micron but it’s not going to be highe IOP’s or endurance, for that your looking at the 1.6tb and 3.2tb drives but they are mostly all SAS.

I dont ned massive amounts of IOPS - just more than what I can get from my spinners - so any SATA ssd is good enough - what matters is that SSD's have generally better iops.

 

[EffrafaxOfWug]

In the UK at least, the Micron 5200 and 5300 series are priced decently enough in large capacities (up to 7TB) and rated at ~1DWPD, so even in a non-RAID setting 300GB/week is fairly small fry. They're consistently cheaper than the S4510s and similar. Samsung's over here are almost always more expensive than Intel or Micron so we've used comparatively few of them.

We've actually a RAID array at work this year from a bunch of the 7TB jobs for hosting a large number of small files in a large CMS for which they've been excellent.

Incidentally, if one side is going to be ZFS is there a reason you're going with rsync rather than ZFS send/receive?

 

[Bjorn Smith]

Incidentally, if one side is going to be ZFS is there a reason you're going with rsync rather than ZFS send/receive?

I am using rsync.net - and even though they support ZFS - I think I would have to upgrade to a more expensive account type ( I am cheap)
With rcync I just push my data to my "quota" of 250GB.

And with ZFS I think I have to push snapshots to them - and I don't run snapshots on my backup ZFS server (the dataset that receives my veeam backups) - and I don't think it would make sense to do, unless the veeam backup files don't change much - I know my virtual machines don't change that much - but I would rather push 200GB compressed files to rsync.net than sending 2TB of VM's and paying for 2TB @ rsync.net.

If I was not cheap, I would just zfs send my virtual machine files directly to rsync.net, just like I zfs send them to my backup server - the veeam backup files are mostly just for MAJOR disaster recovery, since most will be handled by my normal zfs snapshots.

 

[Rand__]

What models?

I thought the usual, but havent been able to find some (cheaply) on a quick search, so maybe not as common as I thought

 

[Bjorn Smith]

I thought the usual

You really don't want to give out model numbers do you

I found some PM863 3.84TB - but those are 400+ EUR that is a little more than I would like to pay, even though size is bigger.

 

[Rand__]

lol,
863, 843 and a third i can't remember

 

[Bjorn Smith]

PM853 is only up to 960GB as far as I can see and PM863 is where it starts getting "expensive" - perhaps I should just suck it up and either buy larger (more expensive) - or pony up for a more expensive quota at rsync.net so I can zfs send my uncompressed stuff to them - I just hate running costs - I prefer paying up front and not think too much about it.

rsync.net Cloud Storage for Offsite Backups

rsync.net offers secure cloud storage on an open standards platform for offsite backup and disaster recovery

www.rsync.net

2.5 cents per GB/month quickly gets expensive - 2TB is 600 USD per year - and today I pay 45 USD for a whole year just to hold my compressed backups.

 

[Bjorn Smith]

Micron 5210 ION SSD
might be an option - if I dare trust QLC - but for backup storage purposes only it seems to be ok - and the 3.84 have a 380GB endurance per day @ 100% 4k random writes (worst case) - and 1.9TB endurance per day best case - so should be ok for my purpose - and should not be slower in writes than my spinners - and would give massive read IOPS boost.

 

[EffrafaxOfWug]

ZFS send/receive should be far more efficient in both bandwidth and IOPS than rsync (since it should only be replicating changed blocks whereas rsync needs to examine the blocks at both ends to do a comparison to only transfer the changed blocks) but obviously this is complicated by the fact you're using a cloud provider; I was under the impression you were doing this between two machines you controlled.

I do use rsync for copying some large datasets over the WAN; it works well for some things and not others. Any replication mechanism based only on copying the changed blocks (which the filesystem itself is keeping track of) will be the most efficient use of CPU, IOPS and bandwidth, so if your existing arrays are fast enough for the backups then they should also be fast enough for ZFS send/receive.

If rsync.net price solely on capacity and capability though, what plan are you using right now? The only caveat I see on their site is that the ZFS account requires a 1TB minimum - the price per GB per month appears to be the same.

Micron 5210 ION SSD
might be an option - if I dare trust QLC - but for backup storage purposes only it seems to be ok - and the 3.84 have a 380GB endurance per day @ 100% 4k random writes (worst case) - and 1.9TB endurance per day best case - so should be ok for my purpose - and should not be slower in writes than my spinners - and would give massive read IOPS boost.

I'd avoid these drives personally; we trialled some at work and the performance was pretty woeful - reads were OK but I think you'd be hard pressed to get them to write consistently at >250MB/s even on the largest models. Micron haven't come out with any replacements for them yet so I hope they're putting QLC out to pasture.

 

[Bjorn Smith]

what plan are you using right now?

250 GB
Standard Offsite Filesystem
$45.00 per year

Is what its called - I pay 1.5 sents per GB/month - so much cheaper - and I can do any capacity from 200GB > with 1GB increments I think - possibly even smaller increments.

I found a link to a "discount" - that I used when I signed up - so I am aware that I get it cheaper per GB than normal.

 

[Bjorn Smith]

Cloud Storage for Offsite Backups - borg support

rsync.net offers secure cloud storage on an open standards platform for offsite backup and disaster recovery

www.rsync.net

So you just have to find the right link to the right page and you can get it cheaper - but I am guessing if you want to use ZFS they "Upgrade" your account to the more expensive version.

 

[Evan]

PM863 but you see a lot of HPE and other OEM branded ones so make sure you have a way to do firmware if that bothers you.

 

[Iaroslav]

Got some Microns 5100 max iops last summer cheap enough. They promise some fantastic endurance, can't test that yet, but iops on read intensive load is not what I expected from the specs. Some old Samsungs and Intel outperformed them easily. Still 3.2Tb Micron S630DC I was lucky to buy one day are way better.

 

[gb00s]

In my humble opinion and from my short zfs experience, I would go with spinners, put two 365G ioDrive2 in front of it and use “syncthing” between servers. ioDrive’s have ‘hugh’ iops. Very nice endurance. They have PLP. Cheap these days. Let it land on the ioDrive2 mirror and then written on the spinners. If something gets deleted or overwritten accidentally, you can even restore that with ‘syncthing’. Another overwritten remote backup, even on rsync.net, cant offer it.

 

[Bjorn Smith]

Thank you all.
I have decided to do something else.
Instead of pushing my VEEAM backups directly to my "slow" NAS - I will write it to my "fast" NAS with its NVME pool and then sync it to my slow NAS via zfs replication.
I will then use my NVME pool and rsync from there - hopefully that should speed up the syncing.
Of course this will mean that I "waste" my NVME pool with silly backup files - but since I just got my hands on 4x4TB P4510's and I currently are only using around 2TB, then I should survive.