First, let me say thanks in advance for any feedback, I really appreciate any feedback that you might have. My apologies for not fitting the build thread guidelines; I don't have my 'plan' fully formulated well enough to meet the requirements. I am really in the 'planning' phase trying to determine what the best solution is.
Background: I have an existing Norco 4020 (original version), with an Areca 1880i, old school HP SAS expander and an older Intel motherboard/CPU with Hitachi 2TB drives. I purchased 7x new 8TB WD RED drives to build a larger array only to my dismay to find that they do not physically fit into all the slots of my Norco (long story short, I think the case was poorly constructed and they will only fit into the top 4 slots).
So, given that I have an aging system with an issue, I decided it is time to explore some new options. My parameters are loosely as follows:
1. Support 10Gbs Ethernet in the future. Not built in necessarily but it needs to be 'upgradeable' to 10Gbps
2. I need to be able to connect up backup enclosures that go offsite with at least 10 bays between two enclosures. Currently I use 2x5-bay AMS eSATA backup enclosures that have worked great connecting via a PCI-E x1 card. I would love to re-use these but I am open to replacing them with USB 3.0 enclosures IF the per enclosure price is reasonable.
3. It needs to be quiet as far as a storage server is concerned. I need to be able to make it quiet with appropriate fans if it is not via the stock cooling.
4. Performance isn't a huge concern given that this will primarily just be a storage server, but with 7x8TB drives to start with I'd like rebuild times to be within reason. Mostly it will just stream files but I could see transcoding being required in the future from 4K to 1080p for certain devices until all the clients can handle 4K streaming
5. Price is a factor of course and I am aiming to keep it under $1400 or so. Given the price of good RAID controllers generally I was planning to re-use my 1880i to save money
6. Hot swappable drive bays. I wrestled with the idea of tricking out a Fractal R5 or something but ultimately it just did not feel like the best way to meet my needs.
After some initial research, here are some solutions that met my criteria. I am interested to hear feedback on these to see if I am missing something important and/or if there are better solutions I should be aware of.
Solution 1: Entirely New Server Build
---------------------------------------------------------
The plan here would be to purchase a new Norco 4224 and fill it with brand new parts. Here is an EXAMPLE of some parts I located to get a rough cost estimate (I am not married to these or convinced that they are the best):
1. Replacement 120MM fan ($25.95x3): NF-F12-iPPC-3000
2. Replacement 80mm fans ($5.40x2): MASSCOOL FD08025S1M4 80mm Case Cooling Fan
3. Case ($429.99): NORCO RPC-4224 -> I think this comes with the 120mm fan wall now
4. PSU $120-$180: Not sure here, something fully modular, quiet, 850W, maybe Seasonic etc.
5. Motherboard $285-$342: No idea here, just picked a couple of SM boards out of a hat, ideally they would allow the HP SAS expander to still work: SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SAT-O or Supermicro X11SAT-F
6. RAM $138: Kingston ValueRAM 16GB (1x16G) DDR4 2133 ECC DIMM KVR21E15D8/16
7. CPU $270: Intel Xeon E3-1230 v6 Kaby Lake 3.5 GHz 8MB GA 1151 72W BX80677E31230V6
Ideally with this build I would keep my existing 1880i and could consider replacing the HP SAS expander with a more recent version (HP 12G SAS Expander - $245). Without factoring cables or the SAS expander I am looking at roughly $1500 for this option.
Pros:
1. It's mostly all new parts and thus increases the resale value down the road.
2. I can re-use my old eSATA card and backup enclosures and it has plenty of PCI-E slots for installing a USB-C/thunderbolt 3 card or 10GBps Ethernet PCI-E card down the road
Cons:
1. I have read less than stellar things about Norco 4224 backplanes in some of the reviews and am I already well aware of their "build quality" overall (leaves something to be desired and their drive cage sizes is what put me in this position to start with). Also, I understand that their support is pretty useless.
2. It's been a long time but cabling it all up in the old 4020 was a bit of a PITA so I am not looking forward to doing that over again in a similar case
---------------------------------------------------------
Solution 2: Used SuperMicro Build
---------------------------------------------------------
This plan would be to purchase a used SuperMicro 846BA-R920B that already comes pre-installed with dual CPU's, 2x SQ PSU's (so they should be 'quiet' as I understand it) and 48GB of RAM and replace the fans with quieter options. Here is the 'parts' list:
1. Case/CPU/RAM/Motherboard/PSU ($1098): 4U X9DRI-LN4F+ 24 bay SAS3 2x Xeon E5-2680 8 Core 2.7GHz 64GB SATADom 48GB SQ PS
2. Replacement Fans: No idea, I would need to research what people are using to 'quiet' these cases that are relatively straightforward to install (120MM fan ($25.95x?): NF-F12-iPPC-3000?)
Again ideally I would re-use my 1880i and possibly replace the SAS expander with a new one ((HP 12G SAS Expander - $245). Looking at somewhere around $1200 not factoring in whatever SAS cables I will need. It's possible that I could make a lower offer for the server, but who knows what they might entertain in terms of price.
Pros:
1. I understand SM cases are fantastic and I could escape some of the jankiness of the Norco cases
2. The system would mostly be built. I would need to replace fans and install and cable up the RAID card/SAS expander but hopefully (no idea how SM cases are to work in) it wouldn't be too rough.
3. Should have just enough space for me to install a PCI-E x1 eSATA card, 10Gbps Ethernet card, and the RAID Card/SAS expander and slot in a USB 3.0 card as well.
4. Appears to be a good 'value' if you part out the RAM/CPU/motherboard/case/SQ PSU costs
Cons:
1. I believe this is a CPU/platform from 2011 so any kind of resale value by the time I am done with it is likely approaching zero.
2. Again given that the platform is aging, finding recent drivers could be problematic for motherboard etc.
3. No USB 3.0 onboard
4. I would have no warranty for just about anything in the system
---------------------------------------------------------
Solution 3: DS1817+
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a bit of a wild card. It would be a very quiet and compact solution for my storage needs and I have an existing single bay synology, so I am familiar with the platform. Normally I would consider the 12-bay version but it has not been upgraded recently and has no 10Gbps support, plus it's pricey so it's out. Parts:
1. DS1817+: $949.99
2. 5 Bay USB enclosures: $179 (x2)
So here I would need to buy the device and USB enclosures and that is it. They do have the DX517 expansion units but those are a massive ripoff, $470 for 5 bays seems ridiculous to me.
Pros:
1. Simple to install, setup and configure.
2. Has support (though I have heard it is pretty awful)
3. Lower power utilization than a 4U server and should be reasonably nice looking and quiet out of the box
4. 10Gbps expansion support via a card
Cons:
1. Right away I would fill 7 out of the 8 bays so there isn't any way that I could keep this for many years and keep expanding the array. I would have to dump/resell/buy larger capacity drives or unit with more bays or an expansion unit
2. Expensive cost per # of drives bays you get
3. Low powered CPU compared to other options, could it even transcode 4K if I wanted it to? Hard to say how bad rebuild times might be
4. Requires me to purchase new USB 3.0 backup enclosures. It's POSSIBLE that the DS1817+ would work with the 5-bay eSATA enclosures that I have but I haven't seem them work with anything except the PCI-E x1 adapters they shipped with so this feels pretty unlikely.
5. Will any 5-bay USB 3.0 enclosures actually WORK with this unit for backups? Or will I have to connect them to another PC on the network and then do the backups over 1Gbps from the NAS -> PC -> enclosure (a PITA and slower than eSATA or USB 3.0) or buy a DX517 expansion unit (overpriced).
If you made it this far, I thank you, my apologies for the length. At a minimum it was helpful to me to write out my thought process. At this point I am leaning toward option 2, though I am a bit leery of "upgrading" to a system of that age and of how easily I can really make it a "quiet" server. Option 3 is of course appealing given that it would look svelte and be "simple" but it may be pretty limiting in a variety of ways.
I am interested to hear what people think if they have weighed with similar plans/builds. Thanks again!
Background: I have an existing Norco 4020 (original version), with an Areca 1880i, old school HP SAS expander and an older Intel motherboard/CPU with Hitachi 2TB drives. I purchased 7x new 8TB WD RED drives to build a larger array only to my dismay to find that they do not physically fit into all the slots of my Norco (long story short, I think the case was poorly constructed and they will only fit into the top 4 slots).
So, given that I have an aging system with an issue, I decided it is time to explore some new options. My parameters are loosely as follows:
1. Support 10Gbs Ethernet in the future. Not built in necessarily but it needs to be 'upgradeable' to 10Gbps
2. I need to be able to connect up backup enclosures that go offsite with at least 10 bays between two enclosures. Currently I use 2x5-bay AMS eSATA backup enclosures that have worked great connecting via a PCI-E x1 card. I would love to re-use these but I am open to replacing them with USB 3.0 enclosures IF the per enclosure price is reasonable.
3. It needs to be quiet as far as a storage server is concerned. I need to be able to make it quiet with appropriate fans if it is not via the stock cooling.
4. Performance isn't a huge concern given that this will primarily just be a storage server, but with 7x8TB drives to start with I'd like rebuild times to be within reason. Mostly it will just stream files but I could see transcoding being required in the future from 4K to 1080p for certain devices until all the clients can handle 4K streaming
5. Price is a factor of course and I am aiming to keep it under $1400 or so. Given the price of good RAID controllers generally I was planning to re-use my 1880i to save money
6. Hot swappable drive bays. I wrestled with the idea of tricking out a Fractal R5 or something but ultimately it just did not feel like the best way to meet my needs.
After some initial research, here are some solutions that met my criteria. I am interested to hear feedback on these to see if I am missing something important and/or if there are better solutions I should be aware of.
Solution 1: Entirely New Server Build
---------------------------------------------------------
The plan here would be to purchase a new Norco 4224 and fill it with brand new parts. Here is an EXAMPLE of some parts I located to get a rough cost estimate (I am not married to these or convinced that they are the best):
1. Replacement 120MM fan ($25.95x3): NF-F12-iPPC-3000
2. Replacement 80mm fans ($5.40x2): MASSCOOL FD08025S1M4 80mm Case Cooling Fan
3. Case ($429.99): NORCO RPC-4224 -> I think this comes with the 120mm fan wall now
4. PSU $120-$180: Not sure here, something fully modular, quiet, 850W, maybe Seasonic etc.
5. Motherboard $285-$342: No idea here, just picked a couple of SM boards out of a hat, ideally they would allow the HP SAS expander to still work: SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SAT-O or Supermicro X11SAT-F
6. RAM $138: Kingston ValueRAM 16GB (1x16G) DDR4 2133 ECC DIMM KVR21E15D8/16
7. CPU $270: Intel Xeon E3-1230 v6 Kaby Lake 3.5 GHz 8MB GA 1151 72W BX80677E31230V6
Ideally with this build I would keep my existing 1880i and could consider replacing the HP SAS expander with a more recent version (HP 12G SAS Expander - $245). Without factoring cables or the SAS expander I am looking at roughly $1500 for this option.
Pros:
1. It's mostly all new parts and thus increases the resale value down the road.
2. I can re-use my old eSATA card and backup enclosures and it has plenty of PCI-E slots for installing a USB-C/thunderbolt 3 card or 10GBps Ethernet PCI-E card down the road
Cons:
1. I have read less than stellar things about Norco 4224 backplanes in some of the reviews and am I already well aware of their "build quality" overall (leaves something to be desired and their drive cage sizes is what put me in this position to start with). Also, I understand that their support is pretty useless.
2. It's been a long time but cabling it all up in the old 4020 was a bit of a PITA so I am not looking forward to doing that over again in a similar case
---------------------------------------------------------
Solution 2: Used SuperMicro Build
---------------------------------------------------------
This plan would be to purchase a used SuperMicro 846BA-R920B that already comes pre-installed with dual CPU's, 2x SQ PSU's (so they should be 'quiet' as I understand it) and 48GB of RAM and replace the fans with quieter options. Here is the 'parts' list:
1. Case/CPU/RAM/Motherboard/PSU ($1098): 4U X9DRI-LN4F+ 24 bay SAS3 2x Xeon E5-2680 8 Core 2.7GHz 64GB SATADom 48GB SQ PS
2. Replacement Fans: No idea, I would need to research what people are using to 'quiet' these cases that are relatively straightforward to install (120MM fan ($25.95x?): NF-F12-iPPC-3000?)
Again ideally I would re-use my 1880i and possibly replace the SAS expander with a new one ((HP 12G SAS Expander - $245). Looking at somewhere around $1200 not factoring in whatever SAS cables I will need. It's possible that I could make a lower offer for the server, but who knows what they might entertain in terms of price.
Pros:
1. I understand SM cases are fantastic and I could escape some of the jankiness of the Norco cases
2. The system would mostly be built. I would need to replace fans and install and cable up the RAID card/SAS expander but hopefully (no idea how SM cases are to work in) it wouldn't be too rough.
3. Should have just enough space for me to install a PCI-E x1 eSATA card, 10Gbps Ethernet card, and the RAID Card/SAS expander and slot in a USB 3.0 card as well.
4. Appears to be a good 'value' if you part out the RAM/CPU/motherboard/case/SQ PSU costs
Cons:
1. I believe this is a CPU/platform from 2011 so any kind of resale value by the time I am done with it is likely approaching zero.
2. Again given that the platform is aging, finding recent drivers could be problematic for motherboard etc.
3. No USB 3.0 onboard
4. I would have no warranty for just about anything in the system
---------------------------------------------------------
Solution 3: DS1817+
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a bit of a wild card. It would be a very quiet and compact solution for my storage needs and I have an existing single bay synology, so I am familiar with the platform. Normally I would consider the 12-bay version but it has not been upgraded recently and has no 10Gbps support, plus it's pricey so it's out. Parts:
1. DS1817+: $949.99
2. 5 Bay USB enclosures: $179 (x2)
So here I would need to buy the device and USB enclosures and that is it. They do have the DX517 expansion units but those are a massive ripoff, $470 for 5 bays seems ridiculous to me.
Pros:
1. Simple to install, setup and configure.
2. Has support (though I have heard it is pretty awful)
3. Lower power utilization than a 4U server and should be reasonably nice looking and quiet out of the box
4. 10Gbps expansion support via a card
Cons:
1. Right away I would fill 7 out of the 8 bays so there isn't any way that I could keep this for many years and keep expanding the array. I would have to dump/resell/buy larger capacity drives or unit with more bays or an expansion unit
2. Expensive cost per # of drives bays you get
3. Low powered CPU compared to other options, could it even transcode 4K if I wanted it to? Hard to say how bad rebuild times might be
4. Requires me to purchase new USB 3.0 backup enclosures. It's POSSIBLE that the DS1817+ would work with the 5-bay eSATA enclosures that I have but I haven't seem them work with anything except the PCI-E x1 adapters they shipped with so this feels pretty unlikely.
5. Will any 5-bay USB 3.0 enclosures actually WORK with this unit for backups? Or will I have to connect them to another PC on the network and then do the backups over 1Gbps from the NAS -> PC -> enclosure (a PITA and slower than eSATA or USB 3.0) or buy a DX517 expansion unit (overpriced).
If you made it this far, I thank you, my apologies for the length. At a minimum it was helpful to me to write out my thought process. At this point I am leaning toward option 2, though I am a bit leery of "upgrading" to a system of that age and of how easily I can really make it a "quiet" server. Option 3 is of course appealing given that it would look svelte and be "simple" but it may be pretty limiting in a variety of ways.
I am interested to hear what people think if they have weighed with similar plans/builds. Thanks again!
