Silverstone DS380: ITX 8x SAS/Sata Hotswap
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I did read that...I had (long shot) hope that perhaps a different PSU could have avoided the issue and that is why I asked. Too bad, that would have been a killer combo IMO.
I've been eyeing this case along with the E3C244D4I-14 MB, just curious if anyone has managed to get a function setup with it since March?
I myself am too looking at getting a system with both the DS380 and the E3C244D4I-14 up and running; it seems a promising combo, once you're able to work around the space issue.
I'm personally looking at using a flex-atx PSU to ensure enough space between motherboard and PSU, I'm not really interested in an extremely tight fit as that will only lead to crap later on.
I'm personally looking at using a flex-atx PSU to ensure enough space between motherboard and PSU, I'm not really interested in an extremely tight fit as that will only lead to crap later on.
I've done this build. Scroll to the bottom for the Miami section.
noted ACI June 2014 - noted
Here's the trick. Ready?
Seasonic SS-250SU, use the right angle bracket that's supposed to be used to hold the far end down as an overhang support. I started cutting sheet metal and all sorts of things, but frankly, it was just fine like that for the two or three months between the time I built it and deploying it in Miami, so I just left it like that. Erm... extra F2B ventilation.
You should know it's a very tight build. Sounds obvious, but you have to do this to get the PSU cables around the hotswap frame:
All in all, the DS380 is a nice case, and when I took it to Miami, I nearly built a duplicate (both for redundancy and because I wanted to reconfigure the WSS pool) around Avoton (very mixed on that, esp vs. E3-1220L, because I lose Vt-d, which is both virtual and literal flexibility).
It's the cheapest way to get a case and eight 3.5 hotswaps (plus the four 2.5 internals) -- and the double SAS connector is just plain impressive.
OTOH, all that space on the side could be a 5.25 bay, tray bays are annoying, and the one usual advantage they provide - cooling by better airflow and an ad hoc metal heatsink - is negated by plastic trays.
Frankly, for density and hitting (my personal preference of) 4+2 spindles for balance of storage and double parity (whether RAIDZ2 or RAID6), I'd prefer 5.25 bays top down. I've been picking up Travelstar 1.5TBs at $80-$90 a drive (watch B&H and Microcenter) which allows me to hit that spindle ratio with 6TB addressable per bay ((6-2)x1.5TB per 5.25) without having to consider "lowest common denominator" issues (in terms of 3.5 disks per bay -- 5 in 3, 4 in 3, 3 in 2, etc.) beyond the right HBA/RAID card.
That in mind, a Supermicro X10SL7-F (which I already have) in combination with an iStarUSA (whose products I don't generally like, but the) S-919 looks so good that I think it will be my last build in my "cloud storage/workstation anywhere" project. I think it represents the best storage/spindle expandability in that area: a standalone machine (i.e. without considering racks/blades) while allowing for entry/middle workstation processing. However, after the costs of buying mobile racks/bays... it's a choice. The DS380, coupled with (eight) 4TB HGST Coolspins (and four SSDSs) goes very, very far.
Hey, my needs are mine (and quite specific) but if you have any questions, especially if you clarify your goals...
I'll throw in more photos from that build, because tight doesn't even begin to describe the PITA that building that one was (seriously, you need to sorta roll the drive bay frame in around the SFF breakout cables and then nudge it forward and back until it aligns just right -- you'll see) just so you understand:
Any incoherence should not be blamed on my bartender, whose help was required to finish this reply.
[EDIT: fixed IMG links. That should be blamed neither on me or my bartender; the Android Dropbox app dropped the ball... and apparently I can't use BBCode to resize, so I had to redo the images to less obnoxious sizes (at 7am)... and also, it seems I lost my STH account in the recent mishap, and had to reregister, so there's that too.]
noted ACI June 2014 - noted
Here's the trick. Ready?
Seasonic SS-250SU, use the right angle bracket that's supposed to be used to hold the far end down as an overhang support. I started cutting sheet metal and all sorts of things, but frankly, it was just fine like that for the two or three months between the time I built it and deploying it in Miami, so I just left it like that. Erm... extra F2B ventilation.
You should know it's a very tight build. Sounds obvious, but you have to do this to get the PSU cables around the hotswap frame:
All in all, the DS380 is a nice case, and when I took it to Miami, I nearly built a duplicate (both for redundancy and because I wanted to reconfigure the WSS pool) around Avoton (very mixed on that, esp vs. E3-1220L, because I lose Vt-d, which is both virtual and literal flexibility).
It's the cheapest way to get a case and eight 3.5 hotswaps (plus the four 2.5 internals) -- and the double SAS connector is just plain impressive.
OTOH, all that space on the side could be a 5.25 bay, tray bays are annoying, and the one usual advantage they provide - cooling by better airflow and an ad hoc metal heatsink - is negated by plastic trays.
Frankly, for density and hitting (my personal preference of) 4+2 spindles for balance of storage and double parity (whether RAIDZ2 or RAID6), I'd prefer 5.25 bays top down. I've been picking up Travelstar 1.5TBs at $80-$90 a drive (watch B&H and Microcenter) which allows me to hit that spindle ratio with 6TB addressable per bay ((6-2)x1.5TB per 5.25) without having to consider "lowest common denominator" issues (in terms of 3.5 disks per bay -- 5 in 3, 4 in 3, 3 in 2, etc.) beyond the right HBA/RAID card.
That in mind, a Supermicro X10SL7-F (which I already have) in combination with an iStarUSA (whose products I don't generally like, but the) S-919 looks so good that I think it will be my last build in my "cloud storage/workstation anywhere" project. I think it represents the best storage/spindle expandability in that area: a standalone machine (i.e. without considering racks/blades) while allowing for entry/middle workstation processing. However, after the costs of buying mobile racks/bays... it's a choice. The DS380, coupled with (eight) 4TB HGST Coolspins (and four SSDSs) goes very, very far.
Hey, my needs are mine (and quite specific) but if you have any questions, especially if you clarify your goals...
I'll throw in more photos from that build, because tight doesn't even begin to describe the PITA that building that one was (seriously, you need to sorta roll the drive bay frame in around the SFF breakout cables and then nudge it forward and back until it aligns just right -- you'll see) just so you understand:
Any incoherence should not be blamed on my bartender, whose help was required to finish this reply.
[EDIT: fixed IMG links. That should be blamed neither on me or my bartender; the Android Dropbox app dropped the ball... and apparently I can't use BBCode to resize, so I had to redo the images to less obnoxious sizes (at 7am)... and also, it seems I lost my STH account in the recent mishap, and had to reregister, so there's that too.]
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I should add though that this build started the mess that turned me off from ASRock Rack, not because their Haswell boards suck and nearly burned up my computers (plural, sitting on a wood floor), but because after getting one response from support, I've heard nothing since. Shame too, because I like the Avoton board (only issue was the IPMI BMC needed to be flashed to be functional - out of the box) especially because I don't want to buy SO-DIMMs for the Supermicro offering.
I've been looking at PicoPSU's and been curious if rigging up something like this might work (flexATX fans can put out a lot of noise). HDPLEX-250W-Hi-Fi-DC-ATX-Converter (16V-24V Wide Range Voltage Input)
PicoPSUs were ordered just in case, but I found the Seasonic so quiet that not only didn't I go that route, I didn't even replace the fan - and I've bought dozens of Noctuas this year, and keep 1-5 spare 40mm fans on hand.
It was designed for low noise, not small 1Us (well, yes, it will fit, but you know what I mean), and even when the fan goes on (at 150W+), it doesn't whine like my Powerconnect Deltas. I've used it two or three times, including for my 1270v3+Norco ITX-S4, and like it so much, I've considered keeping spare units of that PSU on hand.
The PicoPSU route offered no advantages under 150W, no headroom over 150W, and bulk and fragility. I keep spares of those too. (Also, the Seasonic is less expensive, esp vs the 150W+transformer).
(Also, thanks - I hadn't seen that 250W DC unit. I may get one just to have as an option/backup for any failed PSU without worrying about form factor, because I have a few.)
http://www.seasonic.com/pdf/datasheet/NEW/Bulk/IPC/1U/SS-200-250SU-Active-PFC.pdf
It was designed for low noise, not small 1Us (well, yes, it will fit, but you know what I mean), and even when the fan goes on (at 150W+), it doesn't whine like my Powerconnect Deltas. I've used it two or three times, including for my 1270v3+Norco ITX-S4, and like it so much, I've considered keeping spare units of that PSU on hand.
The PicoPSU route offered no advantages under 150W, no headroom over 150W, and bulk and fragility. I keep spares of those too. (Also, the Seasonic is less expensive, esp vs the 150W+transformer).
(Also, thanks - I hadn't seen that 250W DC unit. I may get one just to have as an option/backup for any failed PSU without worrying about form factor, because I have a few.)
http://www.seasonic.com/pdf/datasheet/NEW/Bulk/IPC/1U/SS-200-250SU-Active-PFC.pdf
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Just a heads up I found a couple other PicoPSU's at the 300w and 400w level:
X3-ATX-300 16-24V 300 Watts DC-DC ATX Power Supply
X7-ATX-400 16-24V DC-DC ATX Power Supply
The 400 looks like it might be too big for the case, but the 300 might be able to be adapted.
X3-ATX-300 16-24V 300 Watts DC-DC ATX Power Supply
X7-ATX-400 16-24V DC-DC ATX Power Supply
The 400 looks like it might be too big for the case, but the 300 might be able to be adapted.
Nice. I could cover my 2x5639 or E5 in a pinch with 400W. (Except my 5639 is on a Lenovo board: annoying 10 pin 12V custom "EPS+" connector. I should make an adapter for that.)
For the DS380, I dunno what you could fit in that box to make it draw that. Still would recommend the Seasonic for sturdiness if you plan to go this route. Took lots of photos of that build because I've only seen people ask about PSUs with ITX+ and the DS380, but no answers. Figured it could be handy for others.
One other thing I forgot about that case. The method of securing expansion boards is really annoying. IIRC, the threaded screwholes are in that removable metal cover, so it's not optional, and that means two angles for unscrewing when swapping cards. Not a huge deal, but as I was playing around with config options, it got annoying, especially in confined space (I had about 7 computers around my desk at the time).
For the DS380, I dunno what you could fit in that box to make it draw that. Still would recommend the Seasonic for sturdiness if you plan to go this route. Took lots of photos of that build because I've only seen people ask about PSUs with ITX+ and the DS380, but no answers. Figured it could be handy for others.
One other thing I forgot about that case. The method of securing expansion boards is really annoying. IIRC, the threaded screwholes are in that removable metal cover, so it's not optional, and that means two angles for unscrewing when swapping cards. Not a huge deal, but as I was playing around with config options, it got annoying, especially in confined space (I had about 7 computers around my desk at the time).
So... I followed the instructions on this thread and bought the parts for the build (DS380 + E3C244D4I-14S). The final piece to come in was the SS-250SU - to my surprise, it was shipped to me without the bracket.
It looks like what all the shops in the US are selling is the bulk unit - that meant no bracket, screws, AC plug. I'm not sure what to do, I'm a bit stuck at the moment. I'm not much of a metalworker...
It looks like what all the shops in the US are selling is the bulk unit - that meant no bracket, screws, AC plug. I'm not sure what to do, I'm a bit stuck at the moment. I'm not much of a metalworker...
I ordered mine (a few, three I think) from Superbiiz, usually the best price on these and even cheaper than what I paid just a few months ago. Also listed as bulk. Plain OEM box, but it should definitely include the bracket, as it's needed.
www.EasyCOM.com.ua: Обзор блока питания Seasonic SS-250SU Active PFC shows it attached if you need to show your reseller.
Three suggestions.
1) Return it/have them send you a bracket if missing
2) Reach out to Seasonic
3) See if PlinkUSA will sell you the accessory pack for 1U (2x5.25" Open Bay + 3.5" Open Bay) + (2.5" OS HDD) (Micro ATX / Mini ITX) (20.47" Deep) Rackmount Chassis IPC-1211M (PLinkUSA.com / RackBuy.com) as shown here http://www.plinkusa.net/products/1211m-9.jpg
I was going to suggest you make one - it's not hard, but does require a bit of angle sheet metal (cutting one of those crappy 3.5/2.5 metal tray adapters is a useful source) a nibbler ($20 for a hand tool), a simple electric drill, and a tap kit - though to be honest, those are really useful computer tools. But I'd try the above first.
Sorry, I know what that's like all too well, being done but held up by a little piece.
In the mean time, industrial velcro tape, and if cautious, lay the chassis on the side?
I have one 3U test box with a 300W SFX PSU held in place that way.
www.EasyCOM.com.ua: Обзор блока питания Seasonic SS-250SU Active PFC shows it attached if you need to show your reseller.
Three suggestions.
1) Return it/have them send you a bracket if missing
2) Reach out to Seasonic
3) See if PlinkUSA will sell you the accessory pack for 1U (2x5.25" Open Bay + 3.5" Open Bay) + (2.5" OS HDD) (Micro ATX / Mini ITX) (20.47" Deep) Rackmount Chassis IPC-1211M (PLinkUSA.com / RackBuy.com) as shown here http://www.plinkusa.net/products/1211m-9.jpg
I was going to suggest you make one - it's not hard, but does require a bit of angle sheet metal (cutting one of those crappy 3.5/2.5 metal tray adapters is a useful source) a nibbler ($20 for a hand tool), a simple electric drill, and a tap kit - though to be honest, those are really useful computer tools. But I'd try the above first.
Sorry, I know what that's like all too well, being done but held up by a little piece.
In the mean time, industrial velcro tape, and if cautious, lay the chassis on the side?
I have one 3U test box with a 300W SFX PSU held in place that way.
Sorry, everything's pretty much lying around on my desk cause I'm waiting for that bracket. Until then, I only have a few observations:
- If you're going to be putting an expansion card into the PCI-E slot of the motherboard, the length can't be longer than 6" or you need to remove a piece of the drive cage which will lose you one hot-swap bay on the front. Silverstone only states a maximum 11" length for expansion cards but that is if you decide to drop that hot-swap bay, which leaves you with only 7 bays up front instead of 8.
- The USB 3.0 header on the motherboard is almost directly in the way of where the expansion card will go - it might be a tight fit if your expansion card is longer than 6", or it won't fit at all (USB 3.0 header cables are notoriously stiff). If it's longer than 6" AND a dual-slot card, you definitely can't use the USB 3.0 header. There's another 2.0 header elsewhere on the board.
- SeaSonic offers two other higher-capacity PSUs that have Gold certification, but are longer: http://www.seasonic.com/product/ipc_mini 1u.jsp . I actually bought one of these, but unfortunately they don't have enough clearance, they butt up against the 120mm fan on the side of the case. If it was 5mm shorter, it would have fit. It's possible that you can remove the fan and install the larger PSU; the drive cage does not block the unit.
- I bought a fairly low-profile cooler (Rosewill RCX-Z775-LP 80mm Sleeve Low Profile CPU Cooler - Newegg.com) just in case things didn't fit; I could've probably bought a larger cooler if necessary (didn't need to, it's rated for 65W and my processor is a 45W TDP). Due to the placement of the socket I'm pretty confident you can get any size cooler you need, as long as their width does not exceed the socket area (where the four push-pins are). If it's bigger there might be some issues. Here's an example of someone trying on various out-sized coolers: SilverStone DS380 8-Bay Server/NAS Chassis | silentpcreview.com
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Yup. If going aftermarket cooler (I used Intel stock low profile Xeon 1150) I'll mention the Noctua NH-L9i too, which is insanely cheap (can be found for $40) especially considering it includes a fan that's $15 on its own. That's what's in my even smaller workstation build, a 1270v3 in a Norco ITX-S4 (also using the Seasonic, for that matter). Also, you'll never run into a RAM clearance issue.
AZengus, so they sorted out the bracket issue?
Xaroth, I probably have a few more photos of the build (assuming others would be trying the same and no info on the interwebs), is there anything you're looking for particularly?
AZengus, so they sorted out the bracket issue?
Xaroth, I probably have a few more photos of the build (assuming others would be trying the same and no info on the interwebs), is there anything you're looking for particularly?
Great chip. Meant to use one of those in a similar build, ended up accidentally ordering a 1265Lv2 (oops) and Newegg is bitchy about CPU returns so... I built another machine. Oh well. Shame the IGP goes to waste/wastes power but I guess there isn't a market for a 1260Lv3. I'm curious about the E3-12x1|6 v3 refresh.
Funny thing, when I flew down to Florida with this thing, it still had a 1230v3 (non-L) and thought I might want to swap it for something more powerful, so on the way out the door "just in case" I ended up pulling a 1245v3 and putting it in my pocket (in the little plastic clamshell). Never bothered swapping it, it was fine, and I figure that if I need it as a graphics workstation when down there and its not enough, well, there's either new chips all the time or current ones are cheaper. Also, I have AMT boards, so the IGP waste...
Haswell's great - except for the unnecessary 8GB DIMM limit (32GB isn't enough for me for a daily edit/creation workstation, though it's fine for DAM/Lightroom tasks) and the real frustration, the very limited number of lanes. If its remote machine, not so much an issue; at my place, I'd like to use a graphics card, LSI, and a 10GbE card and that's not easy to do without crippling something. Man I wish these were dual capable.
Funny thing, when I flew down to Florida with this thing, it still had a 1230v3 (non-L) and thought I might want to swap it for something more powerful, so on the way out the door "just in case" I ended up pulling a 1245v3 and putting it in my pocket (in the little plastic clamshell). Never bothered swapping it, it was fine, and I figure that if I need it as a graphics workstation when down there and its not enough, well, there's either new chips all the time or current ones are cheaper. Also, I have AMT boards, so the IGP waste...
Haswell's great - except for the unnecessary 8GB DIMM limit (32GB isn't enough for me for a daily edit/creation workstation, though it's fine for DAM/Lightroom tasks) and the real frustration, the very limited number of lanes. If its remote machine, not so much an issue; at my place, I'd like to use a graphics card, LSI, and a 10GbE card and that's not easy to do without crippling something. Man I wish these were dual capable.