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Seagate Backup Plus 4TB Drive - Cheap 2.5" 4TB drives

Discussion in 'Hard Drives and Solid State Drives' started by Patrick, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. neggles

    neggles New Member

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    smartctl will tell you, I think? - but I'll save you some time, the manufacturer datasheet shows these 2.5" drives all have 128MB of on-disk cache;

    Screen Shot 2017-11-05 at 5-11 11.14.53 am.png
     
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  2. Deslok

    Deslok Active Member

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    Not sure on the commands but the data sheet shows 128Mb, beyond that crystal disk info usually reports it.
     
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  3. Deslok

    Deslok Active Member

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    Totally missed this because it was on the next page +1 for datasheets!
     
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  4. b3nno

    b3nno New Member

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    Yeah I know about the datasheets, but was curious if the shucked disk was somehow different from the drives that arent.
    I tried crystal disk info, it does not report cache size like it does with my other disks.
     
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  5. casperghst42

    casperghst42 New Member

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    I was at a shop yesterday where they had Seagate STEF4000400's at €111 a piece (European number), which is reasonable here in Germany, does anyone know what drivers are in these boxes - I can't find anything on them?
     
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  6. Deslok

    Deslok Active Member

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    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EAioQFghzMAA&usg=AOvVaw20K5HeZ4NFVR7khlU_ZREd

    It looks like they're a emea version of the expansion plus, it should be the same 4tb 2.5 inch drive as the backup plus from what I can see but without opening one I can't be 100% sure
     
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  7. casperghst42

    casperghst42 New Member

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    Perfect, I'll pick one of them up to see if that is the case, that would make it fairly cheap to build a small storage tank.

    Cheers,
    Casper
     
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  8. b3nno

    b3nno New Member

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    Would appreciate it if you post your findings Casper :) I've also come across some of those, pretty cheap.
     
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  9. casperghst42

    casperghst42 New Member

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    I ended up getting some 3.5" 4TB WD Red's instead, as they where almost the same price. But I'll pick one up shortly and report back - can't say when, but hopefully before Christmas.

    Cheers,
    Casper
     
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  10. b3nno

    b3nno New Member

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    I bought a STEF4000400 disk. Contained ST4000LM024, the newer 4TB disk with SMR, MTC etc.
    The chassis arrived:
    20171114_125842.jpg
    Chop chop:
    20171114_210440.jpg
    20171115_000032.jpg
     
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    K D likes this.
  11. anoother

    anoother Member

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    @b3nno: Very nice, but how are you going to power it now?

    I recently replaced my 4TBs (3 M016s but there might have been an M024 amongst them) with 7200rpm 3.5" disks; was getting sick of the poor performance.

    Pretty convinced these all must be SMR drives. My mum is using a brand new unshucked one now for backups on Windows; even there it looks like it's for to take ~18hrs for a 1TB copy.

    Looks like the optimizations made in the 5TB drives has made a good difference; I wonder if it applies to the new 4TBs, too.

    I'm going to try some experiments with SMR-optimized FS/options when I get a chance, see if any more performance can be extracted from my drives.
     
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  12. sth

    sth Active Member

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    This doesn’t make sense. There’s benchmarks throughout this thread showing the 4TB is capable of 60-100MB/s writes across the disk surface. If your seeing circa 15MB/s (1TB in 18hrs) you have another issue rather than just simply SMR. Is she connecting over USB2?
     
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  13. anoother

    anoother Member

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    USB3. I've seen similar performance in ZFS RAID1, with a combination of shucked and original bare drives. Resilvers, with ~1TB free, took around 3+ days iirc.

    For me these drives have consistently demonstrated the typical behaviour you read about with SMR disks: Initial fast writes until the cache is full, and then crippling slow performance, exacerbated further on non-sequential workloads. And decent sequential reads.

    There could have been other things about my setup that were causing the issues - eg. vibration (using CSE-M28SAB enclosure), or maybe a single bad drive (being a 2- and then 3-drive RAID 1, I'll have been limited by the slowest disk). On which note, I had to RMA one drive -- The only one I bought bare as opposed to shucked from an external.

    The poor NTFS performance, again, could be explained by eg. the delta copying mechanism used by the backup tool (bvckup2).

    I could well be wrong, but the above experience says to me that these are prototypical SMR drives.

    I will give them another chance, though, and as noted, will be seeing if there are any ways to squeeze some more performance out of them.
     
    #333
  14. anoother

    anoother Member

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    Hmm, skimming back across this thread, I just can't relate to the performance seen by others.

    And yes, I've always had min_ashift=12. Always had plenty of RAM (48 then 64GB) and both ZIL and L2ARC on SLC SSDs.

    Also changed disk controllers & entire base system along this journey. The only constants are the drives and the enclosure; and the latter had no issue allowing the SSDs installed alongside these Seagates to reach their potential.

    All my issues went away with 'normal' disks. Resilver for 3TB down to <16 hrs (from 72+).

    EDIT: I have been using ZFS compression and dedup, the latter unlikely to be something SMR drives like, due to it being metadata-heavy and, I expect, reliant on lots of random IO. My dedupe ratio has floated between 1.4 and 1.8.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 6:10 PM
  15. b3nno

    b3nno New Member

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    I've put a small power supply from an old Shuttle PC in the 5,25" bay. Shorted the pwr_on to ground, and removed unnecessary cabling.
    Reason I cut the thing in half is I don't have room for a full depth server, I only have some rackspace with about 19" of depth.

    I've been testing some with these new Seagate disks while waiting for more disks to arrive. I put two ST4000LM024 and an ST5000lm000 into a raidZ1 volume. Performance seems OK, I've written it to 82% capacity with compressed media. I'm accessing the volume via CIFS. In the beginning it was writing at 110-130 MB/s. At 82% full the volume writes at about 90-100 MB/s.

    I tried yanking one of the ST4000LM024's while writing to the pool, and the server behaved nicely and it wen't along without a hiccup.
    Wiped the disk and starter resilvering. It finished in 22 hours and 41 minutes. Some of the progress:

    scan: resilver in progress since Sun Dec 10 16:41:10 2017
    180G scanned out of 8.62T at 223M/s, 11h2m to go
    60.0G resilvered, 2.04% done

    scan: resilver in progress since Sun Dec 10 16:41:10 2017
    728G scanned out of 8.62T at 155M/s, 14h52m to go
    243G resilvered, 8.25% done

    scan: resilvered 2.87T in 22h41m with 0 errors on Mon Dec 11 15:23:03 2017

    Wondering what more performance tests I can use to test the pool. I tried dd with zeroes, but with lz4 compression the tests are useless, it wrote 20GB in a couple of seconds..
    I used this commando:
    dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/storage_vol/dataset_main/ddfile bs=1024k count=20000
     
    #335
  16. Churchill

    Churchill Active Member

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    If you figure out a use for them let me know. I've got a stack of 'em that aren't doing diddly dick and loathe putting them back in my server.
     
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  17. b3nno

    b3nno New Member

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    Scrub is going along nicely aswell:

    capacity operations bandwidth
    pool alloc free read write read write
    -------------------------------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
    test 8.65T 2.22T 1.88K 20 238M 84.0K
    raidz1 8.65T 2.22T 1.88K 20 238M 84.0K
    gptid/d478528b-dcfd-11e7-b42c-000c29d77dc6.eli - - 1.14K 3 119M 60.8K
    gptid/d595fb9a-dcfd-11e7-b42c-000c29d77dc6.eli - - 1.16K 4 119M 60.0K
    gptid/82fb3cab-ddc0-11e7-9e76-000c29d77dc6.eli - - 1.19K 4 119M 56.8K
    -------------------------------------- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----


    root@freenas:~ # zpool status test
    pool: test
    state: ONLINE
    scan: scrub in progress since Mon Dec 11 21:46:11 2017
    203G scanned out of 8.65T at 355M/s, 6h56m to go
    0 repaired, 2.29% done
    config:

    NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM
    test ONLINE 0 0 0
    raidz1-0 ONLINE 0 0 0
    gptid/d478528b-dcfd-11e7-b42c-000c29d77dc6.eli ONLINE 0 0 0
    gptid/d595fb9a-dcfd-11e7-b42c-000c29d77dc6.eli ONLINE 0 0 0
    gptid/82fb3cab-ddc0-11e7-9e76-000c29d77dc6.eli ONLINE 0 0 0

    errors: No known data errors
     
    #337
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