Question on OpenStack/CloudStack

[uberguru]

I am just curious here
Can OpenStack convert a compute node into multiple physical nodes that can each run different hardware virtualization softwares like VMware, KVM, Proxmox?

What am saying is...is this what OpenStack and CloudStack are built to be able to do?
Am just wondering here..because if i can do this then why even buy multiple hardware servers in a test lab when one can just buy one monstrous server and just run multiple physical servers(in this case not just virtual server since one will be controlling VMware, KVM and others under it)

Someone please enlighten me. Thanks alot.

 

[Patrick]

If I am understanding your question, I think the easiest way to think of OpenStack is that it is a series of standard services that let you manage a cloud environment. So if you need things like node managers, storage, compute nodes with migrations and etc, that is what you use it for. In a simple model, Rackspace and others use it to manage multiple physical hosts in their clouds.

 

[uberguru]

If I am understanding your question, I think the easiest way to think of OpenStack is that it is a series of standard services that let you manage a cloud environment. So if you need things like node managers, storage, compute nodes with migrations and etc, that is what you use it for. In a simple model, Rackspace and others use it to manage multiple physical hosts in their clouds.

Ok can i run VMware AND KVM AND Hyper-V for example all on one physical host(powerful and capable one) and have them all run 100% as if they were running on separate physical servers? That is my question.

The reason am asking is i am trying to setup a jome lab with desktop computers (not servers because of the noise) and am thinking if i can manage to run openstack or cloudstack...why not get like one powerful host like the Z800 workstation and run everything on there....as opposed to getting like 4 different desktops . You get my point?


I mean what will be the difference between Openstack/cloudstack and lets say vmware? I mean are they doing same thing? If not, then what exactly are they mainly for?

Those are the things i want to clarify.
Thanks!

 

[uberguru]

no one to help..very typical with this forum

 

[33_viper_33]

no one to help..very typical with this forum

I doubt that very much. This is one of the best, most helpful communities I've found.

The scenario you propose is one I've never heard before nor do I think it’s possible. I've never seen an environment using more than one hypervisor on a single physical host. Your hypervisor, be it ESXi, HyperV, KVM, or whatever else runs on the physical host and provides virtual hardware to host client operating systems. The Hypervisor interfaces the virtual environment to the physical. IOT do what you propose would require one virtual environment to be the master and the others to run under it. I don't think this would be stable not to mention the extreme overhead you would experience. It would mean 2 hops for a given request to make it to the physical hardware to be executed and another 2 hops back. Drivers would be a nightmare as hypervisors were never intended to run virtually.

 

[uberguru]

I doubt that very much. This is one of the best, most helpful communities I've found.

The scenario you propose is one I've never heard before nor do I think it’s possible. I've never seen an environment using more than one hypervisor on a single physical host. Your hypervisor, be it ESXi, HyperV, KVM, or whatever else runs on the physical host and provides virtual hardware to host client operating systems. The Hypervisor interfaces the virtual environment to the physical. IOT do what you propose would require one virtual environment to be the master and the others to run under it. I don't think this would be stable not to mention the extreme overhead you would experience. It would mean 2 hops for a given request to make it to the physical hardware to be executed and another 2 hops back. Drivers would be a nightmare as hypervisors were never intended to run virtually.

Then what is the use of openstack/cloudstack then? KVM and VMware and others already can have guest OSes on them..so what exactly is the really needed advantage using openstack then..like its some magical software

i was thinking with all the hype of public/private cloud..it can do all of that. So for each cloud (public/private) one has to have different host server? Since one might have different hypervisor?

 

[33_viper_33]

In terms of cloud environments, its very nature is multiple hosts. Each host runs a hypervisor. I've been playing with vmware's cloud environment on my C6100. Each node runs ESXi. One ESXi host runs vCenter appliance which manages all the ESXi Hosts. Any VM can jump to the least active host at will to maximize performance.

From my limited understanding, if I were running multiple different hypervisors such as ESXi and KVM, than I could use openstack to manage all of them since it is a common platform which understands how to work with each.

Someone jump in here if I'm wrong.

 

[33_viper_33]

If you already understand this, I apologize for insulting your intelligence. Just want to make sure we are clear. A common misconception is that a cloud is a storage platform that can be accessed on the web. If this were the case, we have been using cloud environments for many years and a FTP server would be considered a cloud. On the contrary, clouds are designed to maximize efficiency by load balancing and providing HA (high availability) or failover by using multiple hosts and multiple storage appliances. A cloud can be both public such as Amazon's services accessable via internet or private using a number of different hypervisors.

 

[Mike]

no one to help..very typical with this forum

You're a very typical guy. You knew everything about networking already, but cannot decide between an HP and Cisco SMB switch. Even better, you do not know the difference between Openstack and the hypervisors you mentioned. Have you even tried the wiki?
Running multiple ones can be done. Use case: NONE.

 

[Patrick]

The closest thing I have to this is that in my Windows 8.1 workstation, I am running a few versions of Hyper-V Server 2012 R2 and Windows Server 2012 R2 right now. Using to test before putting into the colo. That is all Hyper-V though.

Personally, instead of having a big server to test hypervisors on, I would use lower-end systems like the Intel Atom C2750 based ones to give each Hypervisor a distinct host. Plus, I am of the opinion, rightly or wrongly, that having multiple physical systems adds an element of complexity to everything.

Spend some time reading about OpenStack though. There is a lot more going on. Much more of a solution for if you wanted to make your own mini-Amazon Web Services rather than a simple hypervisor.

 

[dba]

Then what is the use of openstack/cloudstack then? ...

I've been dabbling with cloud stacks recently. The short answer to your question is that when you start managing hundreds of VM hosts - or even thousands - then a complex system like OpenStack, Eucalyptus, etc. starts making a great deal of sense. When you only have a host or two, these systems will seem overly complex for your needs.

 

[TangoWhiskey9]

dba and Patrick made great explanations. Running a VM is easy. Managing many AND providing resource access to many to different user groups is a good reason to go with OpenStack.

The other really big bonus of using something like OpenStack, Azure or others is that you can migrate between private and third party clouds. Need to take a 42U rack down for a day to replace hardware? Migrate to other machines and other clouds to preserve uptime. Engineering needs their own active domain controller and set of servers, setup a cloud for them.

 

[dataoscar]

Chiming in from a different perspective here. As a software engineer, OpenStack is useful in that it provides APIs to run my applications and manage infrastructure at a programming level.

With these APIs(application programming interface) , I can dynamically scale up out down depending on load.

Also, OpenStack is multi tenant by nature. It allows multiple users to share the hardware resources without each user knowing about each other. Last, OpenStack is a management layer, it utilizes a hypervisor to do its job. Eucalyptus, as an example, supports KVM and Xen. OpenStack supports many more.

I hope this provides better insight.

 

[uberguru]

alright...thanks for all your inputs
i think i have a much better idea of what to expect now

 

[uberguru]

I just found my own answer...basically vsphere is used to manage the esxi hypervisor...esxi is like xenserver/KVM/hyper-v etc. The vmware equivalent to vcloud/vcenter is openstack and cloudstack. The vsa storage is like freenas and the vsx is like vytatta

so much for the smart gurus on here
but thanks anyways..that was all i was looking to get but had to dig this myself.

 

[MiniKnight]

Glad you got an answer, albeit not an accurate one. CloudStack/ OpenStack are a bit broader than vcloud and vcenter.

 

[nitrobass24]

Feel free to stop asking questions if you don't like the answers.