Pentium Gold 8505 based Router

[Infected1]

Hey guys,

So the Router/Firewall/Network Security/NAS bug got me and come to find out there exist no known vaccines for it so Im not too upset. If it got me it got me.
The problem is all the unexpected cost of this whole project and all the new things I had to learn and huge amount I still have to learn, to do it right.
I have tons of questions but in this thread I would like to focus the mini Router processors, Pentium Gold 8505 as there seems to be very few (none) user reports regarding it. I seen it in some handheld device and a few laptops in asia using it according to our friend Google
It is seem here https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804936624497.html
Intel states that its got a Base Power of 15W with 55W being its Maximum Turbo boost.

Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor 8505 (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor 8505 (8M Cache, up to 4.40 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

1. What would be the realistic Idle, average and Max power consumption while using a quality power brick (same specs) and running PFSense and a couple of rules and other security related stuff AND turning all power saving options on? Im trying to get a picture with a ballpark numbers so I can compare it to lets say the N6000 which has a minimum 6W max 28/30W according to Intel and Patrick showed the N6000 idle around 10W with it using 15W while using 4 ethernet cables running and maxing at around 30W. Im trying to figure out these numbers for the Pentium Gold 8505 or atleast ballpark numbers. Yes I know it depends on alot of things like how many RAM stick++++ but assume the best case scenario i.e 1 RAM stick and WD Blue forexample.

2. Consider that the N6000 and 8505 are priced the same and that the 8505 has close to twice the single core and multicore scores of the N6000, where should the line be drawn when it comes to performance versus power saving? What really is needed for a good firewall setup. Now I havent come to the part when I learn about whether or not using virtualization via Proxmox/Docker to run firewalls are better or worse for power consumption or how to even do something like that for that matter. But lets say a home user with lets say 1 up to 3 people at any one time need to set up a firewall with a VPN, will the N6000 be enough and futureproof for that use (pfsense 2.7 ect) ? Or is the double the power of 8505 needed ? Will the power consumption usage difference justify the performance boost?

3. Another issue is the chassis. The 8505 seem to be in a better chassis, shared with higher end cpu's having copper tubes and newer board ect, compared to the N6000 router setup. So the questions regarding heat arise. Will passive cooling be enough? The 1165G7 thatwas shown to have "13.6W-13.8W at idle to 28W-30W with 100% CPU utilization" was running pretty hot while having a max "turbo" power usage of 30W while the 8505 is rated as having a max of 55W so would 1 fan be enough to keep temps at under 50 and sub 70 celcius tops ?
Like the setup here by blowing air on the top which with under where the cpu and copper tubes are

https://www.servethehome.com/topton-fanless-intel-core-i7-1165g7-box-running-vmware-esxi-veeam-and-pfsense/

4. Last question (for now) would a quality power brick rated at 12V 5A and 60W be enough/fine for the "max 55W" 8505 ? Or do we need more head room ? If so, by how much?

I would REALLY appreciate the time if you guys would help me out with some in-depth answers so I can "live with" my bug the best way possible.
We are all in it together

 

[skimikes]

I ordered one of these last night from the cwwk store and they sent me a tracking number this morning. When it arrives, I'll be happy to post data on it which will probably get cross-posted to the Topton mega thread which became about all these devices in general.

 

[Infected1]

I ordered one of these last night from the cwwk store and they sent me a tracking number this morning. When it arrives, I'll be happy to post data on it which will probably get cross-posted to the Topton mega thread which became about all these devices in general.

that would be really cool and nice of you ! do you know when you expect it to arrive? did you get DHL shipping? I assume you have a power meter to be able to measure idle/max consumption and temps? Will you be able to open it up to also see the CPU side with the copper pipes? Will you be using the stock power brick or your own? If so at what specs? Do you know if my question number 4 specs would be enough?

sorry for the millions of questions... Im really just new to this whole thing and find it really really cool and interesting
I hope others with knowledge can kick some of that knowledge my way tho.

 

[skimikes]

that would be really cool and nice of you ! do you know when you expect it to arrive? did you get DHL shipping? I assume you have a power meter to be able to measure idle/max consumption and temps? Will you be able to open it up to also see the CPU side with the copper pipes? Will you be using the stock power brick or your own? If so at what specs? Do you know if my question number 4 specs would be enough?

sorry for the millions of questions... Im really just new to this whole thing and find it really really cool and interesting
I hope others with knowledge can kick some of that knowledge my way tho.

No idea when it will get here. I used the vendor's shipping method for the low low price of FREE. They gave me a tracking number that takes me to a Chinese site that even google translate doesn't know how to deal with, so if past behavior is any predictor, it'll be anywhere from 2 weeks to a month and a half from now.

I have multiple power meters, so I'll be able to measure it at the wall. They don't indicate what the power brick is, so I don't have answers to your questions yet. Once I see what they've given me, then I will decide if I am going to get a new one or not. If it's a "no name" with no UL labeling, then I'll probably order a comparable PSU. If it's a Lite-On or some other brand I'm familiar with, then I'll probably stick with it. My guess is that they would not ship a 90W PSU and it probably comes with a 60W, but that's just a guess. I'd expect them to BIOS limit the CPU performance so that CPU + total board power fits below 60W. Just a guess, though.

 

[Infected1]

Cool... do let me know when it gets there.

About the BIOS limit... why would they do that? Just to save on a slightly cheaper PSU? Sounds crazy given the other CPUs they got there with similar power consumption profile but with more cores/threads ect... if they BIOS limit them, that would pretty much make them a nonsense upgrade over a lets say N6000, no?

Im just most curious about what "55W being its Maximum Turbo boost." means in terms of actual usage (pfsense firewall, VPN, some rules, no virtualization in particular... maybe an adblocker if possible at most) given its TDP is 15W. Will it be in the 10-20W range average or 20-40W range average? And the temps at idle and max. That type of thing would be interesting for me to know... in addition to the basics like how its all set up, copper tubes used, board used ect

 

[skimikes]

Cool... do let me know when it gets there.

About the BIOS limit... why would they do that? Just to save on a slightly cheaper PSU? Sounds crazy given the other CPUs they got there with similar power consumption profile but with more cores/threads ect... if they BIOS limit them, that would pretty much make them a nonsense upgrade over a lets say N6000, no?

They have a power budget based around how much heat they can passively dissipate (and yes, to also be able to cheap out on a very common 60W power supply). Even if they don't allow the 8505 to run at full speed, based upon what appears to be an improved cooling design for the chassis and copper heat pipes, it should still run circles around the N6005.

 

[Infected1]

They have a power budget based around how much heat they can passively dissipate (and yes, to also be able to cheap out on a very common 60W power supply). Even if they don't allow the 8505 to run at full speed, based upon what appears to be an improved cooling design for the chassis and copper heat pipes, it should still run circles around the N6005.

I get that but it should be up to the consumer. So they could BIOS limit it because of passive cooling, but atleast dont lock it so if someone wants to add alternative cooling solutions, they could do that to get the full potential IF power consumption is acceptable. I do hope yours perform well at low temps and low consumption tho as I also have my sights on that unit or maybe the i3.
And also good to see if ES chips are used or not.
BTW, since you mentioned the cwwk store specifically.. you mean their store on ali express or their .net site? Do you have experience with them compared to lets say toptop in terms of quality/service?

 

[Wasmachineman_NL]

No idea when it will get here. I used the vendor's shipping method for the low low price of FREE. They gave me a tracking number that takes me to a Chinese site that even google translate doesn't know how to deal with, so if past behavior is any predictor, it'll be anywhere from 2 weeks to a month and a half from now.

try 17track.net

 

[Immortal]

Cool... do let me know when it gets there.

About the BIOS limit... why would they do that? Just to save on a slightly cheaper PSU? Sounds crazy given the other CPUs they got there with similar power consumption profile but with more cores/threads ect... if they BIOS limit them, that would pretty much make them a nonsense upgrade over a lets say N6000, no?

Im just most curious about what "55W being its Maximum Turbo boost." means in terms of actual usage (pfsense firewall, VPN, some rules, no virtualization in particular... maybe an adblocker if possible at most) given its TDP is 15W. Will it be in the 10-20W range average or 20-40W range average? And the temps at idle and max. That type of thing would be interesting for me to know... in addition to the basics like how its all set up, copper tubes used, board used ect

It would be uncoolable at 55W of power without a fan. That's i5/i7 1240p/1260p territory.

Since it has only one P-core(so not 2 like i5 1240p) this should do 20-35W on avarage and 40+W at full load.

 

[Infected1]

It would be uncoolable at 55W of power without a fan. That's i5/i7 1240p/1260p territory.

Since it has only one P-core(so not 2 like i5 1240p) this should do 20-35W on avarage and 40+W at full load.

I see. But I still hope the BIOS allows to set the power to like 9999 so that its not restricted if we wanted it to, given that we put a fan and other ventilation.

Thats interesting. Are you speaking from experience? Because if that is the case then what is their TDP UP at 55W based on? Forexample I was watching STH on youtube and if I remember correctly, Patrick showed a N6000 I believe at 28-30W max and that fits with the 28 TDP UP that it has from Intel. The N6000 has 4 cores...Im just trying to understand the logic. Sub or equal to 40W max at 20-30W average in use and maybe at 15W at idle which is its TDP down would be nice. Then that makes me think of the i3-1215U, you reckon it will max at its 55W and use more than 30W in use then, since it has 2 P cores? Im asking because that is also a CPU Im considering.

Also does anyone know why there is sooooo little community info on these CPUs where they are all from Q1 2022 making them a year old now?

 

[Immortal]

I can go into details if you want.

So it's like this:

- Every modern Intel CPU has 2 power limits -> PL1 and PL2. PL1 is for full load, long period of time. PL2 is short burst(usually 20 to 45s) for light workload.

Now, PL2 is set by Intel and you cant go above it, nobody can. That's the "TDP UP" in Intel specification. PL1 is set by motherboard manufacter and can be made user-set/unlocked in BIOS by them. However it's by design that no matter what, PL1 cannot go above PL2.

So, whatever the board partner in this case lets say Topton sets for PL1 is usually constrain by another limit - temperature. For slower(less cores/lower base-turbo clocks) CPUs this is not a problem coz even without a fan it wont hit Tjunction temp(for N5105 its 105C, N6000 is the pretty much the same) given good enough heatsink and thermal paste. So they let you run wild and even set PL1 in BIOS to whatever you like(so at max the same as PL2).

As you go up in cores and higher frequency this becomes a serious limit.

Now, for Pentium Gold 8505 where you have 5 cores(6 threads) in a configuration of 1(performance core)+4(efficient cores) and base freq of 3.3 GHz with boost up to 4.4 GHz. I'm certain that it would hit 55W no problem if PL1 would be set to that(so PL1=Pl2) very quickly and without any problem but... just as fast the CPU would hit Tjunction of 100C and start to thermal throttle hard(so dropping clocks like crazy). Coz there is no way in hell you can cool 55W without a fan. Given good enough cooling and unlocked PL1 in BIOS it sure can pull 55W all the time at full load(and close to max clock) but thats not the reality for small boxes without a fan.

Also keep in mind that what Patrick/STH is measuring is the whole thing not CPU alone, granted its not much more but still it's few to several W more than a CPU alone(that's why sometimes it looks in the videos like it goes past PL2 limit).

As for:

Also does anyone know why there is sooooo little community info on these CPUs where they are all from Q1 2022 making them a year old now?

That one is simple - coz that's Intel date of shipping even ONE unit to the market, when they started, the real date for wide availability is usually later and since Pentium procesors are like at the bottom in terms of priorities for the company it only recently started to show up on the market in larger quantities.

 

[skimikes]

try 17track.net

17track.net says my package was processed in WUHAN, CHINA on... March 28th, 2023. I know China is across the international date line. What I didn't know is just how many date lines there apparently are in the Pacific Ocean. So I will guess either I'm supposed to get it by March 28th or there's some data error somewhere. Website seems to indicate that it is currently being flown to the United States, so maybe they need to circle around the Bermuda Triangle a few times to account for the time warp.

 

[Infected1]

I can go into details if you want.

So it's like this:

- Every modern Intel CPU has 2 power limits -> PL1 and PL2. PL1 is for full load, long period of time. PL2 is short burst(usually 20 to 45s) for light workload.

Now, PL2 is set by Intel and you cant go above it, nobody can. That's the "TDP UP" in Intel specification. PL1 is set by motherboard manufacter and can be made user-set/unlocked in BIOS by them. However it's by design that no matter what, PL1 cannot go above PL2.

So, whatever the board partner in this case lets say Topton sets for PL1 is usually constrain by another limit - temperature. For slower(less cores/lower base-turbo clocks) CPUs this is not a problem coz even without a fan it wont hit Tjunction temp(for N5105 its 105C, N6000 is the pretty much the same). given good enough heatsink and thermal paste So they let you run wild and even set PL1 in BIOS to whatever you like(so at max the same as PL2).

As you go up in cores and higher frequency this becomes a serious limit.

Now, for Pentium Gold 8505 where you have 5 cores(6 threads) in a configuration of 1(performance core)+4(efficient cores) and base freq of 3.3 GHz with boost up to 4.4 GHz. I'm certain that it would hit 55W no problem if PL1 would be set to that(so PL1=Pl2) very quickly and without any problem but... just as fast the CPU would hit Tjunction of 100C and start to thermal throttle hard(so dropping clocks like crazy). Coz there is no way in hell you can cool 55W without a fan. Given good enough cooling and unlocked PL1 in BIOS it sure can pull 55W all the time at full load(and close to max clock) but thats not the reality for small boxes without a fan.

Also keep in mind that what Patrick/STH is measuring is the whole thing not CPU alone, granted its not much more but still it's few to several W more than a CPU alone(that's why sometimes it looks in the videos like it goes past PL2 limit).

As for:

That one is simple - coz that's Intel date of shipping even ONE unit to the market, when they started, the real date for wide availability is usually later and since Pentium procesors are like at the bottom in terms of priorities for the company it only recently started to show up on the market in larger quantities.

That is an amazingly well written answer. Thank you! Even I, who have just done some basic hobby overclocking with only1 CPU (i9 9900k) before this, understood most of that. I wonder tho... Lets say we were in the same position with the N6000 as we are with the 8505, based on the intel spec sheet Intel® Pentium® Silver N6000 Processor (4M Cache, up to 3.30 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
I must admit I dont understand the TDP being 6W there.
They dont specify any TDP UP or a PL2, but based on reviews, we know that its 28-30W. Would that mean that we already know the TDP UP for 8505 as its stated to be 55W and we know its TDP DOWN which is 15W, I assume that is the "Processor Base Power" as intel calls it but in BIOS it would be called PL1, and all we dont know is what it idles at or averages at right? Does that also mean (based on N6000) that shops selling these on ali express do not limit the PL1 but locking that option, maybe only reduce it since they are on passive systems BUT the option is available to us to increase if we want to and then also add a fan? Is that fair to assume? Is PL1/2 the BIOS terminology for the same TDP UP/DOWN right?

"Also keep in mind that what Patrick/STH is measuring is the whole thing not CPU alone, granted its not much more but still it's few to several W more than a CPU alone(that's why sometimes it looks in the videos like it goes past PL2 limit)."
This would explain a TDP UP being lets say 28W, then Patrick goes to 30W... but since TDP in the N6000 specs sheet is 6W I have to assume that its the TDP DOWN/PL1 ?

About the lack of availability... that makes alot of sense. It actually reminds me... I was recently in contact with intel regarding a question I had about the differences between 2 enterprise grade SSDs which had almost the same product name with only ONE letter difference... They were QUICK to let me know that all questions about their drives is no longer their problem, I quote
"
Please note that Intel’s NAND Solid State Drive business was acquired by SK Hynix in November of 2020 and is now Solidigm.
Starting on October 1, 2022, all Technical and Warranty Support for NAND SSD products is provided directly by Solidigm.
"
Needless to say, Im not buying those drives... lol.

BTW, since this is a Networking sub forum... I was thinking of making a thread about Home Network Security setup as Ive been reading up on that... IF thats up your ally I would really appreciate it if you could give me one more of your "So it's like this:" answers. Man that would be great... Basically its about VLAN and Router, maybe switch (IF I still need one, if I have a 6port from ali express in addition to my netgear router which has 4 ports), softwares for that, VPN everything centrally so client installs wont be needed, and maybe Pi-hole to block adds.
Im thinking... can I do all that on Pfsense running on one of these ali express routers or do I need to virtualize something additionaly, maybe Open WRT if I need Wifi at home? stuff like that... these are not the questions, I was just mentioning the plan to give you a sense of the gist of it.
I just need a simple, small but secure setup for my upcoming NAS to be separated from the other devices so that I also can connect to it securely, maybe with Tailscale is what Im thinking...

 

[Immortal]

You're welcome. Now, lets continue.

I wonder tho... Lets say we were in the same position with the N6000 as we are with the 8505, based on the intel spec sheet Intel® Pentium® Silver N6000 Processor (4M Cache, up to 3.30 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
I must admit I dont understand the TDP being 6W there.
They dont specify any TDP UP or a PL2, but based on reviews, we know that its 28-30W. Would that mean that we already know the TDP UP for 8505 as its stated to be 55W and we know its TDP DOWN which is 15W, I assume that is the "Processor Base Power" as intel calls it but in BIOS it would be called PL1, and all we dont know is what it idles at or averages at right? Does that also mean (based on N6000) that shops selling these on ali express do not limit the PL1 but locking that option, maybe only reduce it since they are on passive systems BUT the option is available to us to increase if we want to and then also add a fan? Is that fair to assume? Is PL1/2 the BIOS terminology for the same TDP UP/DOWN right?

This is just Intel... being Intel. If you look for logic, proper naming, continuity.... yeah, no. They give you what looks better for them any given moment.

In the case of N6000 Intel only gives you their TDP. Which they claim is 6W. Now, Intel TDP is measured with base clock without any kinda of boost.
From there all kinds of shenanigans are possible. Now, with N6000 it's like this:

- base clock is set laughably low -> at 1.1 GHz so 1/3rd of turbo clock (3.3 GHz).
- coz of that the vcore (CPU voltage) gonna be significantly lower which means a lot less power draw
- on top of that Intel TDP doesn't specify what kinda of "full load" testing they did to arrive at their number but it sure as hell isn't anything close to heavy workload.

So there you have it. That's how Intel arrived at 6W for N6000. Which ofc is a complete BS and at best... misleading. MiniPC from Ali usually have PL1 set by board manufacter to whatever they feel their cooling solution can handle(which often is very optimistic) with the option to be set by the user in the BIOS if he wants.

Now, for the 8505:

- yes, it's fair to assume that PL1 is set by defualt 15 W and PL2 at 55 W

- yes it's almost certain that partners(boxes from Ali) have it set it that way with the option to set PL1 in BIOS by the user, it's up to you to cool the CPU if you go crazy with PL1=PL2 or something close to it. It will also hit that 55W(so the whole box will be like 60+W) if you manage to cool it below the throttle temperature. NVMe drive temperature will be a problem at that point too.

- and finally yes, we don't know the avarages and idle power draw for now

BTW, since this is a Networking sub forum... I was thinking of making a thread about Home Network Security setup as Ive been reading up on that... IF thats up your ally I would really appreciate it if you could give me one more of your "So it's like this:" answers. Man that would be great... Basically its about VLAN and Router, maybe switch (IF I still need one, if I have a 6port from ali express in addition to my netgear router which has 4 ports), softwares for that, VPN everything centrally so client installs wont be needed, and maybe Pi-hole to block adds.
Im thinking... can I do all that on Pfsense running on one of these ali express routers or do I need to virtualize something additionaly, maybe Open WRT if I need Wifi at home? stuff like that... these are not the questions, I was just mentioning the plan to give you a sense of the gist of it.
I just need a simple, small but secure setup for my upcoming NAS to be separated from the other devices so that I also can connect to it securely, maybe with Tailscale is what Im thinking...

Man, it's late here(4AM) and i'm tired as hell but lets try:

- Yes, you can do all of that with one box and Pfsense or OPNsense althou it's it's not recommended
- By design hardware in networking has it's purpose and should be used for that alone(i'm talking proper networking not home/soho all-in-one "routers"
- So router should just route the traffic and as byproduct of that it's(can be) also a firewall
- For switching you should have... well a switch
- For WiFi an Access Point

Outside of performance security is a big reason why you want to have everything separated and you can add performance to that if that's a concer. Now like i said if you really want to, you can setup all of that under Pfsense or OPNsense, well almost everything - you still need AP(Access Point for WiFi) or if you're crazy enough you can put a WiFi card in that box and really have everything in one box but like i said - i strongly advise against such a thing.

Hope this helps.

 

[fta]

It is seem here https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804936624497.html

I've been playing with one of these for the past week, but I got the i5-1235U version from CWWK Store. The 1235U has the same TDP and max turbo power as the 8505, though. I planned to review here it soon.

1. What would be the realistic Idle, average and Max power consumption

The way I have linux configured, it's idling at 15-16W at the wall. You can easily hit 90W briefly before hitting the thermal wall when under full load with the stock PL1/PL2/PL4 limits.

3. Another issue is the chassis. The 8505 seem to be in a better chassis, shared with higher end cpu's having copper tubes and newer board ect, compared to the N6000 router setup. So the questions regarding heat arise. Will passive cooling be enough? The 1165G7 thatwas shown to have "13.6W-13.8W at idle to 28W-30W with 100% CPU utilization" was running pretty hot while having a max "turbo" power usage of 30W while the 8505 is rated as having a max of 55W so would 1 fan be enough to keep temps at under 50 and sub 70 celcius tops ?

The thermal design on this one is pretty good. If you stick with the default PL1 of 15W, you can run it fanless at max load and stay well under 70c.

4. Last question (for now) would a quality power brick rated at 12V 5A and 60W be enough/fine for the "max 55W" 8505 ?

No. Mine came with a 96W adapter. You'd want a 90W adapter unless you set PL4 to restrict the power.

Now, PL2 is set by Intel and you cant go above it, nobody can.

This is not quite correct. The power limits are defined here. You can set PL2 just like you can set PL1, and you can set it higher than max turbo power if the motherboard/thermal design can support it. If PL2 is set to the max turbo power, in this case 55W, you can and will exceed that initially during a max load event. PL4 is the limit that will not be exceeded. Mine came with PL1=15, PL2=55, and PL4=123.

Now, for Pentium Gold 8505 where you have 5 cores(6 threads) in a configuration of 1(performance core)+4(efficient cores) and base freq of 3.3 GHz with boost up to 4.4 GHz. I'm certain that it would hit 55W no problem if PL1 would be set to that(so PL1=Pl2)

With PL1=15, PL2=55, and Tau=28 (the default), you will be doing 55W (assuming you aren't limited by anything else) when max load starts.

 

[Immortal]

This is not quite correct. The power limits are defined here. You can set PL2 just like you can set PL1, and you can set it higher than max turbo power if the motherboard/thermal design can support it. If PL2 is set to the max turbo power, in this case 55W, you can and will exceed that initially during a max load event. PL4 is the limit that will not be exceeded. Mine came with PL1=15, PL2=55, and PL4=123.

You're right, no idea why it stuck in my head - that it was PL2 instead of PL4. Thou i now remember why i ignored PL3 and PL4 - you can't touch PL3 nor PL4. Well you can PL3 coz it's optional but i didn't see any miniPC board which allowed that, so Intel partners just stick with defualt. Anyway, that's beside the point. Thanks for correction on that.

With PL1=15, PL2=55, and Tau=28 (the default), you will be doing 55W (assuming you aren't limited by anything else) when max load starts.

I'm not sure if Tau window is defualt here but anyway it doesn't really mater, you gonna hit thermal limit in seconds without a fan with 55W and drop clocks, like it was said.

 

[fta]

you can't touch PL3 nor PL4.

In Windows, you can set PL4 with throttlestop. In linux, you can set it with powercap-set.

I'm not sure if Tau window is defualt here but anyway it doesn't really mater, you gonna hit thermal limit in seconds without a fan with 55W and drop clocks, like it was said.

Yep, for sure. My main point there was you don't have to set PL1=55 to hit 55W. By default I meant it is the default on the i5-1235U Ali box I have been playing with. When I was researching Tau it seemed 28 is the recommended default for mobile cpus. For reference, you can see here that Intel recommends a Tau of 28 for all of the U processors.

 

[Infected1]

You're welcome. Now, lets continue.

This is just Intel... being Intel. If you look for logic, proper naming, continuity.... yeah, no. They give you what looks better for them any given moment.

In the case of N6000 Intel only gives you their TDP. Which they claim is 6W. Now, Intel TDP is measured with base clock without any kinda of boost.
From there all kinds of shenanigans are possible. Now, with N6000 it's like this:

- base clock is set laughably low -> at 1.1 GHz so 1/3rd of turbo clock (3.3 GHz).
- coz of that the vcore (CPU voltage) gonna be significantly lower which means a lot less power draw
- on top of that Intel TDP doesn't specify what kinda of "full load" testing they did to arrive at their number but it sure as hell isn't anything close to heavy workload.

So there you have it. That's how Intel arrived at 6W for N6000. Which ofc is a complete BS and at best... misleading. MiniPC from Ali usually have PL1 set by board manufacter to whatever they feel their cooling solution can handle(which often is very optimistic) with the option to be set by the user in the BIOS if he wants.

Now, for the 8505:

- yes, it's fair to assume that PL1 is set by defualt 15 W and PL2 at 55 W

- yes it's almost certain that partners(boxes from Ali) have it set it that way with the option to set PL1 in BIOS by the user, it's up to you to cool the CPU if you go crazy with PL1=PL2 or something close to it. It will also hit that 55W(so the whole box will be like 60+W) if you manage to cool it below the throttle temperature. NVMe drive temperature will be a problem at that point too.

- and finally yes, we don't know the avarages and idle power draw for now

Yeah... I agree that is very misleading. Its like rating a Porsche as an economic car and in all your tests driving at 40 Km/h... for sure its gonna use less gas then, hence the low TDP for the N6000 like you said. But that's not its average intended use. And you explained it well... it makes sense that the 8505 would use more than its PL1 or PL2 because those are the CPU numbers only and we must factor in the whole box with its NICs ect as well.

Man, it's late here(4AM) and i'm tired as hell but lets try:

- Yes, you can do all of that with one box and Pfsense or OPNsense althou it's it's not recommended
- By design hardware in networking has it's purpose and should be used for that alone(i'm talking proper networking not home/soho all-in-one "routers"
- So router should just route the traffic and as byproduct of that it's(can be) also a firewall
- For switching you should have... well a switch
- For WiFi an Access Point

Outside of performance security is a big reason why you want to have everything separated and you can add performance to that if that's a concer. Now like i said if you really want to, you can setup all of that under Pfsense or OPNsense, well almost everything - you still need AP(Access Point for WiFi) or if you're crazy enough you can put a WiFi card in that box and really have everything in one box but like i said - i strongly advise against such a thing.

Hope this helps.

We seem to be in the same timezone, Europe Never answer when you are tired, there is no rush but I really do appreciate that you did !
From what you wrote, I think I figured out my big issue. You see, I was looking at these firewall boxes and thinking if I get a 6 port one I can just use it as a switch as well because I really dont need a big setup.... then I started reading up on these things and stumbled across managed/unmanaged switches and I figure a box like this could at best do the job of an unmanaged switch so I would at least need 1 managed switch for my Home Network Setup with VLANs... I made a diagram and will be making a thread to share all I know so far, or atleast think I know and hopefully you and others will correct me and guide me on the right path and the thread also will be helpful to others with my low level of knowledge regarding Networking I will PM you the link when I make the thread, and for this thread we will just have to hope skimikes package dont end up in the Bermuda Triangle and that he receives his package safe and sound and sooner rather than later.

 

[skimikes]

I got the 8505 unit from cwwk today which was the fastest delivery of the 4 units I now have (~10 days from order to door). BIOS is pretty sparse compared to the other 3 - I think it was dated 02/07/2023. Haven't had time to play with it yet other than to slap 64GB of RAM into it, a Crucial NVME drive, and start up memtest86+ on it. After an hour and a half of memtest86+ (all-core), the chassis was 60C (140F) which, to me, was definitely uncomfortable to touch. It comes with a Daijing 96W power brick which I will likely keep using. One of the other units I have came with a Daijing and it was the most efficient of the three. Draw during memtest86+ was 36-38W.

 

[fta]

I got the 8505 unit from cwwk today which was the fastest delivery of the 4 units I now have (~10 days from order to door). BIOS is pretty sparse compared to the other 3 - I think it was dated 02/07/2023. Haven't had time to play with it yet other than to slap 64GB of RAM into it, a Crucial NVME drive, and start up memtest86+ on it. After an hour and a half of memtest86+ (all-core), the chassis was 60C (140F) which, to me, was definitely uncomfortable to touch. It comes with a Daijing 96W power brick which I will likely keep using. One of the other units I have came with a Daijing and it was the most efficient of the three. Draw during memtest86+ was 36-38W.

Can you do a test for me? Run prime95 with the smallest fft size and see if it crashes?