One of my ultimate workstations builds (future planning, you could almost call this a fantasy ;-)

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ullbeking

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Jul 28, 2017
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I've been wanting a real workstation for a long time, and now that I'm doing a massive hardware clearout, now might be the time. I'm presently planning, but this configuration is the only thing that actually gets me excited about having an (Intel) workstation.

First requirement: It has to be silent or near-silent.

I have the following chassis: SuperChassis 732D4F-903B . (I actually considered for a while turning this chassis into a pure NAS. Then I decided that a Fractal Design tower would make a great NAS chassis too.)

Since this board got released, I've been in love with it, although I know very little about how it performs in practice: X12SCZ-TLN4F .

I would aim to buy an Intel Xeon W-1250 CPU and fit a Noctua HSF.

At first I would use the integrated graphics and integrated audio, but as I get used to it I would move to a USB-connected, high-quality audio DAC. I'm undecided about finding a high-quality 32-34" 4K monitor. I actually need to learn more about monitors to be honest.

Primary use case would be signal processing.

Does anybody have any ideas or comments?
 

ullbeking

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As an audiophile I would also LOVE a Schiit stack of power amps and preamps. I'm also becoming more interested in power amplication in general. What devices do you have?

Right now we're trying to find a reputable (pref. authorized) repair shop to fix my wife's Yamaha hi-fi amp but it's very difficult without recommendations.

Do you have any particular favorite audio enthusiast forums @T_Minus ? I'd like to ask around there.
 

T_Minus

Build. Break. Fix. Repeat
Feb 15, 2015
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I've had mine awhile now, they have newer versions. MODI 2U + MAGNI 2U UBER + WYRD. I split the output and use them for headphones OR desktop speakers. I just got the new Magni3 Heresy for my wife's new workstation but haven't tried it out yet, it's going connected to an audio interface\DAC to power the headphones appropriately.

The difference in sound in music is amazing, the difference in games is life like and new sounds I'd never heard before. Well worth it IMO, and not super costly.
 

Stephan

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Apr 21, 2017
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Got the Fractal Design Define 7 XL with Noctua fans (400-1200rpm), also Noctua for Xeon CPU. System is silent, unless the 7200rpm 14 TB SATA HDDs spin up, then you can hear a faint high pitch noise. Those Supermicro cases always have a problem with silent fans. Either not enough static pressure to properly cool or not enough fan mounts for quiet 120mm fans etc. pp.

For audio I can recommend the E1DA 9038D USB stick + app for ~100 USD total. Made by a guy who really knows his stuff, basically a DAC/headphone amp for 100 that rivals the quality of a DAC for 1500. You will need an amplifier still. App is Android only. Sound quality is as good as it gets, no more room for improvements with current analog and chip technology. Got it to replace ALC888 onboard lineout audio.
 

ullbeking

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@Stephan Which mainboard and CPU are you using? I'm trying to decide on a really nice workstation board. I've been looking at Supermicro and am now looking at ASRock, but I don't know much else of what is out there. I'd like micro-ATX or ATX.
 

Stephan

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My shit is old by now, a Supermicro X11SAT with Xeon E3-1275-v6 Kaby Lake and 64 GB of UDIMM ECC-RAM. At 77W TDP the cooler can do three times more but that is key to silence, slow big fans.

If you want to stay on Intel then ASUS WS C621E Sage might be an option. It is E-ATX though. BUT instead of only CPUID 50654..7 someone on win-raid dot com made a BIOS that handles also 50650..7 i.e. engineering samples. Cooling is tight with Noctua NH-U12S and top PCIe slot will probably be unusable, even with possibility to use a VRC-25 PCI-E Riser cable from Fractal Design. Unless you bend the cooler with huge force a couple of millimeters upwards for clearance. 81xx ES << 81xx QS < 82xx ES < 82xx QS.

If you are considering AMD then a 32-core Epyc "Milan" is around the corner. No boards announced yet, probably pays off to hold off buying a little. More than 32 cores for me has diminishing returns, 8 RAM channels not enough for larger datasets so cores idle, and top frequency of 32 core models is better than 48/64 core models.

Personally I am waiting for Milan, because Intel only very recently has fixed major security bugs that no longer kill context switch latency as seen at the end of 2015. For me 4 cores per RAM channel is the sweet spot. I am also inclined to punish Intel over their product line differentiation madness, specifically ECC and in desktop space AMT KVM. Also didn't like the JCC-bug and the fact that in their urgency to fix security bugs everywhere on their chips, they now introduce regressions with microcode updates every quarter or two.
 

ullbeking

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My shit is old by now, a Supermicro X11SAT with Xeon E3-1275-v6 Kaby Lake and 64 GB of UDIMM ECC-RAM. At 77W TDP the cooler can do three times more but that is key to silence, slow big fans.

If you want to stay on Intel then ASUS WS C621E Sage might be an option. It is E-ATX though. BUT instead of only CPUID 50654..7 someone on win-raid dot com made a BIOS that handles also 50650..7 i.e. engineering samples.
I have been considering staying on Intel, but now that I think about it in more detail, I'm only really attached to Intel for servers. For example, this NAS I'm speccing out and the two backup servers I've already got the hardware for.

Cooling is tight with Noctua NH-U12S and top PCIe slot will probably be unusable, even with possibility to use a VRC-25 PCI-E Riser cable from Fractal Design. Unless you bend the cooler with huge force a couple of millimeters upwards for clearance. 81xx ES << 81xx QS < 82xx ES < 82xx QS.
I don't like having to these mods that require such a huge amount of force. I don't think this is the right option for me.

If you are considering AMD then a 32-core Epyc "Milan" is around the corner. No boards announced yet, probably pays off to hold off buying a little. More than 32 cores for me has diminishing returns, 8 RAM channels not enough for larger datasets so cores idle, and top frequency of 32 core models is better than 48/64 core models.

Personally I am waiting for Milan, because Intel only very recently has fixed major security bugs that no longer kill context switch latency as seen at the end of 2015. For me 4 cores per RAM channel is the sweet spot. I am also inclined to punish Intel over their product line differentiation madness, specifically ECC and in desktop space AMT KVM. Also didn't like the JCC-bug and the fact that in their urgency to fix security bugs everywhere on their chips, they now introduce regressions with microcode updates every quarter or two.
I'm glad you reminded me of Milan, because this would be great for a desktop workstation. I'm happy to wait too, because I'm still working on the NAS and another (POWER9) workstation.

In reality, if I choose Milan, this means buying a board+CPU, etc, about one year after the first releases, to allow early adopters to iron out the first defects. That's OK, because I have other machines to work on in the meantime.

I've been reading up on Milan, and most reviews refer to it as a server CPU however. Have you noticed this, @Stephan ? Do you think it's well adapted for a workstation CPU plus whatever boards we might be able to imagine are released to support it?
 

Stephan

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Apr 21, 2017
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@ullbeking Yes Milan will be a server CPU. A Supermicro H12DSi-NT board, that is also not out yet, should host two CPUs nicely. My own "workstation"-type loads are typically multithreaded, e.g. a parallel compile job or some VM test scenario. So two 32-core 8-RAM-channel Epyc are a good fit for me. If you need higher single core performance, something else like a Threadripper or even a Ryzen might be a better option. In any case what sets a workstation apart from a PC for me is firstly ECC, or generally error detection and correction throughout the system. So from CPU through busses into the filesystem. I prefer ZFS. Secondly the board should have as many x16 or x8 PCIe sockets as possible because usually I have many cards (graphics, SAS, specialized Wifi, SSD etc.). Many Ryzen boards are poor in this regard. There will likely be no sound implemented on Epyc boards but I actually like that, because I prefer my own high-end chain, starting with an E1DA 9038D USB-adapter. "First defects" or drawbacks were imho ironed-out already on 1st and 2nd gen Epyc. I expect a 3rd gen Milan Epyc to just work.
 

ullbeking

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@Stephan Are you intending on using a Supermicro H12DSi-NT board, assuming that it has the properties and specs that you expect it to? And even though it's technically a "server" board, are you going to use it for a "workstation" type of setup by installing dGPU, audio DAC or USB interface, etc?

For me, the most important thing for a a workstation is silence or near-silence. I know the issues concerning the practicalities, so I would spec mine out so the fans don't have to work hard and it's a comfortable machine to keep running during working hours in the living room. We live in a small apartment in central London, so putting the chassis in a closet, basement, another room, etc, isn't an option. Another thing I'm looking into is a chassis that incorporates vibration dampening, for the HDD's, and also to mute the noise for when the fans spin up.

This means I may use the Supermicro SC732D4F-903B I mentioned earlier, or instead use a Fractal Design 7.
 

Stephan

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Apr 21, 2017
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Yes, and yes. I don't have that much USB stuff so the little that those boards provide is enough for me, got a hub for the rest. Even if its just two to four USB 3.0 ports or something. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Milan boards have USB 3.1 10 Gbps.

I like full silence as well. The Fractal Define 7 XL which I have has good sound dampening, but be advised you can hear 7200rpm HDDs through the front vents. Well at least if you pack eight in the case ("shucked" WD 14TB ZFS RAIDZ2). So maybe get SSDs only. I park the disks using hd-idle after 5 minutes idle (this is running Arch Linux) which lowers noise and heat considerably. For case fans I have some 140mm BeQuiet Silent Wings 2 or 3 which go from 400 to 1200 rpm, controlled through an Aquaero 6 LT (I said Noctua earlier but misspoke; today's choice would be Noctua but the SW2/3 are very good as well). Originally that is for water cooling but it can control four 3-pin/4-pin ports separately and flexibly. I stuck it diagonally into the case's ceiling around the middle and am using an onboard temperature sensor of one of the Aquaero fan amplifiers to control the backside 140mm fan. So when heat builds up in the ceiling, that fan will rev up. A Noctua 92mm SAS chipset fan is controlled through an Aquaero temperature probe (it has 8 probe ports) that I stuck between the SAS chip heatsink and the chip. Always stays at silent 800rpm, guess that fan was overkill. Three more 140mm fans in front are controlled by the remaining two ports (1+2 via splitter) with rev speed set through another Aquaero temperature probe that I taped to one of the disks' side. CPU fan is a big ass Noctua NH-U14S. The Aquasuite software is Windows only but I got it to work in a Windows VM with USB passthrough. Once set, the Aquaero functions autonomously and does not need the Windows software for anything. For good measure I turned every fan down to its slowest possible speed (i.e. no strange chirping noises that appear with too little voltage), noted the voltage or RPM, gave it 2 volts or 100 rpm more for aging and good measure and set that as minimum in the software. The end result is ultimate cooling, totally quiet at idle and when doing a compilation run and temperatures go up, you still can't barely hear a thing. For reference at idle, back fan is at 510rpm, SAS fan 868rpm, HDD fan 399rpm and 395rpm, CPU fan 352rpm. Oh yeah for PSU BeQuiet Straight Power 10, also silent. For dual Epyc I would probably get a Corsair AX1600i. I hope I could give you some ideas for your own project by writing all this.