New (to me) type of scam on eBay

[int0x2e]

I fell for it, I guess - trying to warn others.


If you see new-ish eBay accounts shipping out of China, but couldn't resist the deals because the prices were too good to be true - they probably are.
Even though they have pictures of the items and the listings look legit, they likely are fraudulant.

If you go through with it, you'll get very professional looking shipping updates (too polished and too quick for such new accounts), which will explain that they're exporting from mainland China via HK, so the initial tracking number is for China->HK, and you'll soon get an updated tracking number for the HK->US leg soon.

I did get another tracking number, but I'm pretty sure it'll end up being a box of rocks or some trinkets, and the reason for the complex chain is just to delay complaints by enough time for the funds to clear...

I initially thought they're newbies trying to build up a new business/account, so they're essentially "advertising", but I kept seeing new accounts and new listings for IT gear that's way too nice to be surplus, selling for way too cheap.

A few example listings that seem suspicious to me:

HPE DL385 Gen10+V2 2x EPYC 7513 512GB RAM 4x 750GB 12x 3.2TB NVMe SSD RPS 25GbE | eBay
Supermicro 4U AI GPU Server 8x PCIe 4.0 AMD SP3 64 Cores 512GB NVMe HPC Ready | eBay
12PCS BM1733a 15.36TB SSD 2.5"MZ-WM515TO MZWM515THALC-00AG5 FW NA55 U2 PCIe3.0 | eBay
Ruckus 901R550US00 ZoneFlex R550 Wireless Access Point for sale online | eBay

 

[Jelle458]

Well the first one is pretty much a clone of the actual real listing:

HPE DL385 Gen10+V2 2x EPYC 7513 512GB RAM 4x 750GB 12x 3.2TB NVMe SSD RPS 25GbE | eBay

Two AMD EPYC 7513 2.6GHz 32 core 128MB L3. 512GB DDR4 ECC 3200MHz Modules. 3-year parts from HPE. 3-year labor from HPE. Primary Riser: 3x PCI-e 4.0 slots x16 + x8 +x8 (3x FH). Tertiary Riser: 2x PCI-e 4.0 x16 slots (FH).

www.ebay.com

Same pictures, same description, just cheaper and 0 reviews on the seller.

Usually I don't buy from sellers with 0 sales. If everyone felt that way no new ones would emerge ever, I just already got my hands burnt like this, you only do it once and you'll learn.

 

[kapone]

If you're a seller and starting out on Ebay, you don't start with super expensive items. You start with small, cheaper items and build a rep first.

But...more importantly, you can still have a rep as a buyer. And then start selling.

So, 0 feedback on an Ebay user, implies they have never bought or sold anything on Ebay. So...hard pass.

 

[int0x2e]

If you're a seller and starting out on Ebay, you don't start with super expensive items. You start with small, cheaper items and build a rep first.

But...more importantly, you can still have a rep as a buyer. And then start selling.

So, 0 feedback on an Ebay user, implies they have never bought or sold anything on Ebay. So...hard pass.

I agree it's unwise, but I was brave and picked up some perfectly fine items (e.g.: used Ruckus APs) from sellers with 0 reputation in the past.
But they indeed had a very different profile when it came to interacting with them, and were based in the US.

 

[int0x2e]

Well the first one is pretty much a clone of the actual real listing:

HPE DL385 Gen10+V2 2x EPYC 7513 512GB RAM 4x 750GB 12x 3.2TB NVMe SSD RPS 25GbE | eBay

Two AMD EPYC 7513 2.6GHz 32 core 128MB L3. 512GB DDR4 ECC 3200MHz Modules. 3-year parts from HPE. 3-year labor from HPE. Primary Riser: 3x PCI-e 4.0 slots x16 + x8 +x8 (3x FH). Tertiary Riser: 2x PCI-e 4.0 x16 slots (FH).

www.ebay.com

Same pictures, same description, just cheaper and 0 reviews on the seller.

Usually I don't buy from sellers with 0 sales. If everyone felt that way no new ones would emerge ever, I just already got my hands burnt like this, you only do it once and you'll learn.

Why can't eBay's fraud team do a half decent job here? It's literally the exact same listing in terms of title, description and all photos... Even before the bad guys get smart, you could at least compare the raw text and images and if they're by a different seller - require that both accounts "verify" that this is intentional...

I guess the main issue is that no one in eBay loses money over this? It might even be in their interest to have more volume?

 

[TrevorH]

Ebay even have a "clone this advert/sell a similar item" listing choice to make it easy to pinch someone else's ad and hijack it.

 

[ca3y6]

Why can't eBay's fraud team do a half decent job here? It's literally the exact same listing in terms of title, description and all photos... Even before the bad guys get smart, you could at least compare the raw text and images and if they're by a different seller - require that both accounts "verify" that this is intentional...

I guess the main issue is that no one in eBay loses money over this? It might even be in their interest to have more volume?

I felt for one of these scams, though this wasn't a zero rating. The ratings was based on many real sales, but when I checked the sales, they were a bunch of $1 sales to account that were all themselves 0 rating accounts. My item was marked as sent untracked, so expected delivery in over a month.I contacted the seller which as a tracking number gave me the reference of a cargo ship! After verification that cargo ship was transporting cars and wasn't even stopping in China where the seller was based. The seller sold number of expensive SSD for cheap over the same period to other buyers.

So everything screamed fraud, I called ebay support, the guy agreed it screamed fraud but told me to just wait for the scheduled delivery date before filling a complaint, and the seller went on to defraud more people.

For SSDs at least, I don't think I ever had any great deal coming out of China. Reputable sellers there are quite savvy and never underprice (and if they do by mistake will cancel the order). Aside from them I only see fraudsters. I don't think a private seller in China selling for cheap would ship internationally.

Edit: though it’s not quite fair to say there are never great deals in general from China. That’s true of SSDs but had great deals on other electronics. I bought a couple of 32 cores 3rd gen Xeon Scalable Gold for $400 each when 10 cores 3rd gen Silver go for over $700 in auctions in the US. Just bought some 9400-16i HBA from china for 40% less than the first price in the UK. I guess US tariffs and lack of trust in chinese sellers from many buyers despite multi-thousands ratings help.

 

[Jelle458]

Why can't eBay's fraud team do a half decent job here? It's literally the exact same listing in terms of title, description and all photos... Even before the bad guys get smart, you could at least compare the raw text and images and if they're by a different seller - require that both accounts "verify" that this is intentional...

I guess the main issue is that no one in eBay loses money over this? It might even be in their interest to have more volume?

Ebay even have a "clone this advert/sell a similar item" listing choice to make it easy to pinch someone else's ad and hijack it.

I think the answer is here. I do not have any experience with cloning an ad, I have never sold on eBay before. If they make it as easy as "clone this" that also makes it very hard to detect fraud, however it should also be easy if someone clones an ad, then sets the price at a 90% discount.
If someone want to sell something quickly you discount for 10% compared to others, not 90%.
I have a friend who was looking for a 5080 and hit numerous scam sellers, I think there are more than we think.

I felt for one of these scams, though this wasn't a zero rating. The ratings was based on many real sales, but when I checked the sales, they were a bunch of $1 sales to account that were all themselves 0 rating accounts. My item was marked as sent untracked, so expected delivery in over a month.I contacted the seller which as a tracking number gave me the reference of a cargo ship! After verification that cargo ship was transporting cars and wasn't even stopping in China where the seller was based. The seller sold number of expensive SSD for cheap over the same period to other buyers.

So everything screamed fraud, I called ebay support, the guy agreed it screamed fraud but told me to just wait for the scheduled delivery date before filling a complaint, and the seller went on to defraud more people.

For SSDs at least, I don't think I ever had any great deal coming out of China. Reputable sellers there are quite savvy and never underprice (and if they do by mistake will cancel the order). Aside from them I only see fraudsters. I don't think a private seller in China selling for cheap would ship internationally.

Edit: though it’s not quite fair to say there are never great deals in general from China. That’s true of SSDs but had great deals on other electronics. I bought a couple of 32 cores 3rd gen Xeon Scalable Gold for $400 each when 10 cores 3rd gen Silver go for over $700 in auctions in the US. Just bought some 9400-16i HBA from china for 40% less than the first price in the UK. I guess US tariffs and lack of trust in chinese sellers from many buyers despite multi-thousands ratings help.

I work for a medium sized enterprise refurbisher. When we get SSDs in we have a percentage used threshold. If the drive reports above 80% life remaining we stock the drive and sell it as we normally do. If it reports above 50% but below 80% life remaining the China market just swalles the lots whole. We sell them for a reduced price and it's very clear the China market is extremely hungry when it comes to SSDs, and of course RAM right now, even DDR3 RAM sells crazy fast these days in the Chineese market.

I think they test the drives and reset the SMART in some way, so the life remaining gets back up to 100%, and they sell it on places like eBay. We have gotten a lot of drives from China, but HDD, not SSD. Those drives were CLEARLY reset in the SMART. Drives that were outright failing but reported 0 hours of running time. Some drives just throwing error after error, but had 0 prioer to connecting....

I haven't bought a single SSD or HDD from China because of this, and I always recommend people to not buy from China.

 

[int0x2e]

Quick update: eBay and PayPal refunded me (not long after the seller sent a pretty angry message)

I hope others can learn from my experience, even if this one didn't end too badly for me...

 

[nabsltd]

One of my automatic eBay searches came up with this bit of fraud. The zero-feedback seller with a 10-day old account has 5 auctions ending today, all for insanely desirable items.

No thanks.

EDIT: eBay is re-directing the link, likely because the listing was fraudulent. It now points to a real auction from a reputable seller.

 

[ca3y6]

Agree, almost certainly a fraud

 

[mattventura]

I think I might be facing a similar scam. I bid on an auction for a server. Won it for a suspiciously low price, probably due to it being a 0-feedback Chinese seller thus almost nobody else was bidding on it.

Originally it was shipped "untracked", but now it is 3 days after the estimated delivery date. The seller's account page says "No longer a registered user". So I hit "item not received" and the seller responds (how can they do that if their account is deleted or banned?) with this:

Hello
The item is already in transit and the tracking numbers have been provided. I saw you open a dispute. This will have a significant negative impact on my store, affecting its sales revenue. If you don't need our product. Or if there are any issues with the transaction. Please let me know, I will cancel the order immediately. We will provide you with a full refund. If you need the product. Please temporarily close the dispute. We will urge the postal staff to send the product to you as soon as possible. We guarantee that you will receive the product within 10-12 days. Please reply to me as soon as possible.

They added a USPS tracking number to the order, which says it was delivered today. Checked the mail, did not receive any packages. I've heard of sellers finding random tracking numbers and using them to scam. This one originates in Indiana, which wouldn't make sense if the package was coming from China. I'm also not sure how they think the "negative impact" is remotely believable when their account doesn't exist anymore.

How does this scam work? Are they hoping people will just forget that they ordered something? Or do they think they can bamboozle the eBay dispute resolution with a fake tracking number?

 

[ca3y6]

I suspect they just take the money and count on ebay not being able / bothering to recover funds in China, particularly if the total amount is under a couple thousand dollars.

 

[JSchuricht]

I think I might be facing a similar scam. I bid on an auction for a server. Won it for a suspiciously low price, probably due to it being a 0-feedback Chinese seller thus almost nobody else was bidding on it.

Originally it was shipped "untracked", but now it is 3 days after the estimated delivery date. The seller's account page says "No longer a registered user". So I hit "item not received" and the seller responds (how can they do that if their account is deleted or banned?) with this:



They added a USPS tracking number to the order, which says it was delivered today. Checked the mail, did not receive any packages. I've heard of sellers finding random tracking numbers and using them to scam. This one originates in Indiana, which wouldn't make sense if the package was coming from China. I'm also not sure how they think the "negative impact" is remotely believable when their account doesn't exist anymore.

How does this scam work? Are they hoping people will just forget that they ordered something? Or do they think they can bamboozle the eBay dispute resolution with a fake tracking number?

Ebay's automation looks for the tracking to show delivered then closes the dispute in the seller's favor. Winning as the buyer takes some legwork. Mainly getting the shipping carrier to write up something on their letterhead showing that the tracking number doesn't match your address then contacting eBay on Facebook.

Alternatively, once you are sure that the tracking number isn't for your address, file a SNAD claim. Significantly Not As Described since eBay thinks something was delivered but the something you received (nothing) is not the same as the something that was in the listing. The seller either refunds or sends you a label to return the nothing back to them. Occasionally they fight it by not sending a return label or sending an Amazon QR code that can't be tracked to prove you returned anything. Then you are back to contacting eBay on Facebook.

Start with the eBay claims first then proceed to Paypal or credit card chargeback. Ebay closes any claim you have open once you start a chargeback outside of eBay.

 

[mattventura]

Ebay's automation looks for the tracking to show delivered then closes the dispute in the seller's favor. Winning as the buyer takes some legwork. Mainly getting the shipping carrier to write up something on their letterhead showing that the tracking number doesn't match your address then contacting eBay on Facebook.

Alternatively, once you are sure that the tracking number isn't for your address, file a SNAD claim. Significantly Not As Described since eBay thinks something was delivered but the something you received (nothing) is not the same as the something that was in the listing. The seller either refunds or sends you a label to return the nothing back to them. Occasionally they fight it by not sending a return label or sending an Amazon QR code that can't be tracked to prove you returned anything. Then you are back to contacting eBay on Facebook.

Start with the eBay claims first then proceed to Paypal or credit card chargeback. Ebay closes any claim you have open once you start a chargeback outside of eBay.

Yeah, here's what happened since my last post:

1. Seller dodged my questions, gave more excuses.
2. eBay closed the dispute in the seller's favor.
3. I called USPS, they confirmed the tracking number didn't match my address, but they said I'd have to go into a physical post office to get that in writing.
4. I called eBay and I was able to get them to resolve it in my favor regardless. Tracking number coming from Indiana back to the west coast wouldn't make sense for something from China, nor did the package weight match up. It was also supposedly delivered "in or at the mailbox", but it wouldn't have fit in the mailbox's parcel locker, and I sure hope they wouldn't just leave it next to a shared mailbox in the rain.

 

[BlueFox]

As usual, if it's too good to be true, you're wasting your own time and effort.

All eBay checks is whether something was delivered within your ZIP code (and signature for high value items, but not applicable here). Since origin is irrelevant, not hard to get a tracking number heading to wherever you might be. You can just scrape USPS via API until you find a match. You're then stuck with the legwork proving you didn't receive something and that may not be guaranteed to be in your favour.

SNAD claims won't do you much good since you won't have anything to return, which is normally required to complete the dispute process without further escalation.

 

[mattventura]

As usual, if it's too good to be true, you're wasting your own time and effort.

Agreed, though that might be why they're doing auction format instead of BiN - you don't know that the price will be too-good-to-be-true until it's too late. One of the other items from the same seller ended at a much more reasonable price.

 

[BlueFox]

Agreed, though that might be why they're doing auction format instead of BiN - you don't know that the price will be too-good-to-be-true until it's too late. One of the other items from the same seller ended at a much more reasonable price.

I don't see what the selling format has to do with it. Too good to be true isn't just price. I'm sure all the other listings will have had the same problem.

Why do you think a new zero feedback seller overseas was receiving no bids? I think it's pretty apparent.

 

[int0x2e]

I don't see what the selling format has to do with it. Too good to be true isn't just price. I'm sure all the other listings will have had the same problem.

Why do you think a new zero feedback seller overseas was receiving no bids? I think it's pretty apparent.

I think like many other scam formats, this scam greatly benefits from the victim feeling like they found an incredible deal, perhaps even taking advantage of the newbie seller forgetting to set a safe reserve price for the auction...
BIN won't have that much of that effect. It would feel like the seller had a reason to price things so low, which is suspicious.

If you feel like you got one over them, you're more likely to wait for a bit longer and let the funds clear out in time...

 

[ca3y6]

"you can't cheat an honest man!"