New Server Build

[Spritzup]

Hey All,

Apologies if this isn't the correct forum, if not please let me know where I should put it.


So it's time to upgrade my aging setup to something a bit more modern. I'm currently running dual 2670v1's with 128GB Ram in a Norco-4224. It has served me well, but my needs are changing so here I am.

The new primary use of my server will be storage, Plex, and running two desktops... one a Windows gaming PC and one a Mac. I'd also like to I'd also like to use a video card to assist with Plex transcoding.

At a high level, my thought is to repurpose the Norco as a DAS, and then build out the rest of the system in a new case with better cooling. Has anyone done this, and if so, what hardware did you use to connect the systems and power the system's on? Any gotcha's I should be aware of?

The second consideration is what hardware to look at. I'm good with hitting up Ebay for slightly older server grade hardware, or is Threadripper the way to go?

Lastly, is it now practical to start looking at 10gig switches/cards? Or is the cost of such an endeavor still prohibitive?

Thanks in advance for the help!

~Spritz

 

[ExecutableFix]

As for the hardware, wouldn't EPYC be a viable option? You can get them on Ebay for decently cheap and the performance is great

 

[Spritzup]

I hadn't considered that actually. I've been out of the game for a couple of years... what's currently the best bang for the buck?

 

[IamSpartacus]

While EPYC is a tremendous value right now, depending on how recent of games you want to play it may not suffice. Even the Rome series EPYC CPU's (not cheap) don't have very high CPU clocks and the first generation EPYC's are much lower on the CPU clocks. A threadripper build is actually probably the sweet spot if you want a high performing media server and Gaming VM host in one. I ran that exact setup on a 1950x and I know others doing it now on 2950x's. And obviously if you can swing for a Threadripper 39x0x, even better.

 

[alex_stief]

FWIW, you would probably get better performance for the games you mentioned on a second gen Epyc CPU, compared to first or second gen Threadripper. Improvements in IPC and NUMA topology more than make up for the lower clock speeds for this type of application.

 

[IamSpartacus]

FWIW, you would probably get better performance for the games you mentioned on a second gen Epyc CPU, compared to first or second gen Threadripper. Improvements in IPC and NUMA topology more than make up for the lower clock speeds for this type of application.

I can speak to this, as that's what I use. However I didn't want to push Rome since it's not cheap and OP was talking about used gear on eBay.

 

[ExecutableFix]

I can speak to this, as that's what I use. However I didn't want to push Rome since it's not cheap and OP was talking about used gear on eBay.

You can get 'pretty' good deals on ebay tbf

And you've got to look at the long-term costs as well

 

[IamSpartacus]

You can get 'pretty' good deals on ebay tbf

And you've got to look at the long-term costs as well

"Pretty good deals" is a relative term. Yes I bought my EPYC 7452 for $1,200 on eBay which I thnk is amazing, but that's still $1,200. Where as I know plenty of people with excellent performance on their gaming VM servers using Threadripper 2950x's for less than half that cost. So yea, cost and "good deals" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Spritzup]

So reading the replies, it looks like Intel isn't even on the radar... not that I have a preference one way or the other. So if that's the case, Gen2 Threadripper vs Gen3 Ryzen vs Gen1 Epyc?

Thanks again for all the feedback

~Spritz

 

[IamSpartacus]

So reading the replies, it looks like Intel isn't even on the radar... not that I have a preference one way or the other. So if that's the case, Gen2 Threadripper vs Gen3 Ryzen vs Gen1 Epyc?

Thanks again for all the feedback

~Spritz

Between those 3 options, I'd say Gen1 EPYC is out if you are planning to game. With regard to Gen2 Threadripper vs Gen3 Ryzen, that mainly depends on what other hardware you plan to run in this system. If only running a single GPU and a 1-2 NVMe, you're fine. If you want to run multiple GPU's, multiple NVMe, an HBA, NICs, etc. then you'll want Threadripper for the PCIe lanes.

 

[Spritzup]

Ok, my thinking was the same...

And any Intel offerings that currently compete? And by compete, I mean the balancing act most of us have to do with cost vs performance, new vs used availability.

~Spritz

 

[IamSpartacus]

Ok, my thinking was the same...

And any Intel offerings that currently compete? And by compete, I mean the balancing act most of us have to do with cost vs performance, new vs used availability.

~Spritz

That depends. How many cores/threads do you need in your system?

 

[Spritzup]

Need is such a relative term. The minimum number of cores/threads would ~16/32.

~Spritz

 

[IamSpartacus]

Need is such a relative term. The minimum number of cores/threads would ~16/32.

~Spritz

Than no, there really isn't anything in the Intel lineup that can match up with Threadripper 2 or Ryzen3 in terms of cores/threads and decent clock speeds.

 

[Dreece]

Based on your listed requirements, there really is nothing wrong with a dual V3/V4 setup for this, plenty umph and plenty cheapish boards etc out there to go with them, you can always start on a mid-tier dual V3 setup and have room to shoot up to V4 when their used prices come down a bit say early next year.

Your budget and priorities (need over want) is going to be your final governor really and to that effect I'd suggest mapping things out in a spreadsheet, get some cpu benchmarks together, boards, pcie ports, and kind of work from there with an average cost for used/new of each part. I'm sure you're already doing this however this is the best approach to jumping into open waters where you've been out of touch for a wee while.

My current desktop is a Ryzen, and I have to admit I'm not even using its full potential, even when dabbling in video/cgi work. Rendering is the only time it really hits home and there really isn't any system out there bar 10k+ setups that can make you miss a few heartbeats on sheer performance.

All in all, latest Threadripper is a good suggestion, however Intel V3/V4 could leave you extra paper in the wallet which could be used on NVME drives here and there and even a reclaimed 10G network setup.

Regarding the 10G network side of things, YES, highly recommended if you're doing a great deal of large file copying here and there (video footage, movies etc), even consider grabbing some RDMA cards to offload the work for NFS/SMB etc, which makes a huge difference to a server thats doing more than just serving as a storage device as it frees up considerable cpu cycles.

Gaming is a different territory, but a great couple of cards for passthrough would make a huge difference, for example I have one VM running a Quadro which then sends the picture down the displayport to an active hdmi converter then down a 12 meter run to the bigscreen in the lounge... quiet gaming/video watching full quality 4k from the attic to the tv is mind blowing compared to 'streaming'...

My suggestion, look at what you need, then look at what you would like to do later with it too, how you'd like to expand it and around it when your budget permits, and also if there is an easy cost effective upgrade path for you to not only meet your expansion needs but also resale value too, best to stay ontop of that angle in order to not fall too far behind and end up with worthless tech... The supermicro chassis is a fantastic start heading in the right direction.

Oh and do throw some photos back of the build when you get there

 

[IamSpartacus]

@Dreece what v3/v4 E5's are going to get the job done on new games? None that I'm aware of.

 

[Dreece]

I'm not a 144fps+ competitive gamer, a little long in the tooth for that, though haven't had any issues with the casual FPS I throw a mouse and gamepad at whatsoever.

So new games have issues with V3/V4 cpus? never heard that before, if you can let me know of one, then I can see for myself both on a V3 and V4 setup. What issues do new games have with haswell/broadwell setups?

 

[IamSpartacus]

I'm not a 144fps+ competitive gamer, a little long in the tooth for that, though haven't had any issues with the casual FPS I throw a mouse and gamepad at whatsoever.

So new games have issues with V3/V4 cpus? never heard that before, if you can let me know of one, then I can see for myself both on a V3 and V4 setup. What issues do new games have with haswell/broadwell setups?

I'm not a major gamer myself, but I know many that have issues getting decent frame rates gaming at anything above 1080p on new games unless they have high clock speed (at least 4.5GHz turbo) CPUs.

 

[Dreece]

Ah yes that would be an issue with lower end cpus no matter what gen. Base clock speed is a must for game that much hasn't changed over the past decade, I see what you mean, if indeed new games are totally reliant on very high base-clocks then better to advise server builders who want to play games too to consider the workstation derivatives of the gens as they tend to have the highest base clocks, still of course won't match top-end consumer Ryzens and i9's... I guess serious gamers take every competitive advantage very seriously. Though I'd still be willing to bet the hit isn't noticeable to the average odd game here and there kinda chap/lady.

* I'd add, if one is a gamer, one would not try to build an all in one, there are obvious compromises across both ends of the workload spectrum.

 

[alex_stief]

I'm not a major gamer myself, but I know many that have issues getting decent frame rates gaming at anything above 1080p on new games unless they have high clock speed (at least 4.5GHz turbo) CPUs.

If you observe frame rates dipping too low when going to higher resolutions, then CPU is not your problem. It's GPU.