Need help planning server upgrade

[oelke23]

I'm looking to upgrade my server a little bit and add on a DAS enclosure but I'm having some issues getting everything planned out before I buy stuff as I'm somewhat new to using RAID controllers and HBA cards. I'm planning on getting a rackmounted Rosewill case with hot swap bays to hold my drives and powering the drives with a 700 watt PSU and an old motherboard I had lying around. I did get the idea from one of the DIY guides on this site, if you're interested here's the link (https://www.servethehome.com/sas-expanders-diy-cheap-low-cost-jbod-enclosures-raid/). I was wanting to use the SAS expander in that guide for the enclosure but I wanted to use a different card in my actual server box. I'm not sure if it's going to work though as I said I'm new to using HBA cards and RAID controllers.

If I were to use the HP SAS expander card in my DAS enclosure connected to an LSI 9300-8e HBA card in my server box through an SFF-8088 to SFF-8644 cable, would my server actually see the drives?

I'm not looking to set up a RAID configuration really all I need is a way to expand the number of drives I can attach to my server without buying a RAID enclosure. The links to the items I'm hoping to use is below for your reference. Anybody had any experience with this hardware that can tell me if it'll work?

I am open to better ideas if anybody has any.

--------------Hardware Links----------------------

DAS case: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N9CXGS...olid=2F03J9PTEA1D8&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

DAS Internal Breakout Cables: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012BPLYJ...olid=2F03J9PTEA1D8&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

HP SAS Expander: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WJC5Z...olid=2F03J9PTEA1D8&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

LSI HBA Card: LSI 9300-8e PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SATA / SAS 8-Port SAS-3 12Gb/s HBA - Single - Newegg.com

External Connection Cable: External Mini-SAS HD SFF-8644 to Mini-SAS SFF-8088 Cable 3 Meter - Newegg.com

 

[itronin]

Can you speak a bit more as to your use case? Is this personal use, learning? a mix or "production home use" ie. Family unit or co-inhabitants will depend on this storage? e.g. "production business use"? LFF (3.5") or SFF (2.5") spinners in the DAS chassis? a mix of spinners and SSD? Running SAS drives? SATA drives? a mix? Is your DAS really going to be almost 10' away from its server?

>If I were to use the HP SAS expander card in my DAS enclosure connected to an LSI 9300-8e HBA card in my server box through an SFF-8088 to SFF-8644 cable, would my server actually see the drives?

Not having tried it with the specific hardware (and firmware versions) you reference I cannot say. I'm not sure the question is whether you'll have issues going between the physical interconnects (though that's valid too) but rather going from the SAS3 controller down to the SAS 2 Expander. The expander should be seen and the adapter should auto-negotiate down to the drives in the DAS but long cable lengths could impact that. If you are only looking at SATA drives then everything is 6Gbps all the way so SAS 3 to SAS 2 may be moot though cable length(s) could still be an issue.

Another question that comes to my mind is whether you are planning to install SSD's in the DAS chassis?

I'm not sure if you are using amazon and newegg to illustrate the parts or are showing a preference to buy "new" parts?

Cost savings if you consider used:

For example: the SAS expander you reference is routinely going for about $10.00 - $15.00 on ebay and/or places like theitmart.com ($11.00 with 30 day warranty). You may need to flash the SAS expander (whether purchased from amazon or another source) to get SATA3 capabilities. FWIW the cost saving is pretty dramatic on the SAS expander - ie: your link $148.15 to $11.00 from the it mart... roughly the cost of an 8TB shucked drive.

For the SFF-8087 to to SATA breakout cables take a look at: Cable Creations 5 Pack .5M
I think you'll need 3 break out cables so that's ~$33.00 on your link vs. $18.00 from the 5 pack. Some additional savings there.
Granted the 5 pack cables are .5M and I am not sure if you'll need 1M cables inside the Rosewill Chassis or whether the .5M will work there.
Short of purchasing cables from China (eBay or Alibaba) I think that 5 pack is one of the better deals on new breakout cables.

Are you planning for future SAS 3 drives in your expander? If so you'll need to replace the expander at some point. If not or you are looking at only SATA then take a look at this STH sticky for some SAS2 HBAs as you may be able to find something not quite so pricey and still meet your needs whether new or used. As an example: I'm using some DELL Perc H310's flashed to LSI IT mode. I found those on eBay in a lot of 5 for 92.00 and then took an hour to flash them all. Effective price was sub $20.00 for each card. Now that does not meet your use case though as you're looking for an HBA with external connections. however I could get some SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 cables (~$7.00) and an SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 bracket (~$24.00) and adapt the H310 for external connection for less than your SAS3 HBA. I'm not sure I should use that as its an illustrative example and honestly you can find LSI SAS2 or OEM SAS2 (flashed to LSI) with external connections -8e or for about the same price as an -8i plus the cables & brackets to bring it outside the case.

A thing to remember though is any cable transition will add resistance and essentially adds distance to your cable length and distance can create problems.

itr

 

[oelke23]

My server is a personal home server running my plex media server and my cloud server and is used for learning purposes as well. Since I'm the only one using the server I can bring it down to make any changes necessary whenever I need to.

For the SSD's, I use an SSD to run the operating system for my server but I do not plan to use SSD's in my DAS. I was planning on using SATA drives only for now. All of my current drives are SATA, currently 7 already using SATA, and the speed of the server is not an issue so I see no reason to switch everything out.

The links I used were only intended to show what hardware I was considering using I'm absolutely open to used hardware. The distance between my DAS and my server will actually only be about a foot or 2 as they will be stacked on top of each either in my server rack. I will be looking for a shorter external cable but I need to lock down which HBA card to use so I know what ports I'm looking for.

Am I correct in thinking all of the HBA cards send data through the PCIe slot? I know the SAS expander uses the PCIe slot only for power so I'm unsure of whether the same is the case for HBA cards.

 

[itronin]

Yes, CPU to HBA communication/data is through the PCIe bus and correct the SAS expander gets it's connectivity through 1 or 2 SFF-8087 connections back to the HBA.

Plenty of SAS2308 and SAS2008 controllers on ebay and used market resellers for reasonable prices.
The STH thread I linked to earlier has lots and lots of options. I think with those two chipsets you are going to find external is generally SFF-8088 but you are right to verify before making purchases!

Search for LSI 9207-8e or 9200-8e... If you purchase an OEM version you may want to flash to LSI firmware. Lots of resources on how to do that here and elsewhere. You may also need to update the firmware on the SAS Expander too.

For your use-case you'll probably only need to use one of the SFF-8088 connections which gives you room to grow your storage (and power bill! ;-)).

sounds like a fun project!

itr

 

[oelke23]

That is what I needed to know. I appreciate the help very much.

 

[itronin]

EDIT - corrected SAS connectivity

Yes, CPU to HBA communication/data is through the PCIe bus and correct the SAS expander gets it's connectivity through 1 or 2 SFF-8087 connections back to the HBA if its in the same system *OR* the SFF-8088 - which is in your use case..

Plenty of SAS2308 and SAS2008 controllers on ebay and used market resellers for reasonable prices.
The STH thread I linked to earlier has lots and lots of options. I think with those two chipsets you are going to find external is generally SFF-8088 but you are right to verify before making purchases!

Search for LSI 9207-8e or 9200-8e... If you purchase an OEM version you may want to flash to LSI firmware. Lots of resources on how to do that here and elsewhere. You may also need to update the firmware on the SAS Expander too.

For your use-case you'll probably only need to use one of the SFF-8088 connections which gives you room to grow your storage (and power bill! ;-)).

sounds like a fun project!

itr