Making the "For Sale/ For Trade/ Want to Buy" section safer

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Stereodude

Active Member
Feb 21, 2016
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Can a few changes be made to make the "For Sale/ For Trade/ Want to Buy" section safer? I understand that STH isn't responsible to ensure every deal is legit on both ends, but it sure feels like very little effort has been made to minimize likelihood of the membership being preyed upon by scammers. Currently, it sort of has a "we've chummed the waters, please watch out for the sharks" vibe to it.

1) Should members with 0 posts (or even non-members) really be able to read it? What about members with 0 posts being able to post in it? Why not make it inaccessible to everyone with less than 10-20 posts?

2) Why are members with 0 posts able to PM other members?

3) There are no posted tips for sorting out the scammers. How about a sticky with some basic tips. Like for example, how to ensure that the member who joined withing the last week or two, with less than 5 posts, PM'ing you to fill your WTB, is legit before you send them money.

4) There are no instructions on how to or to whom to report someone pulling a scam in the "For Sale/ For Trade/ Want to Buy" section. I had one trying to scam me. After I asked for proof they had the item they disappeared from the conversation, but their account is still good and I'm sure they will try someone else who might not pick up on the scam. I have no idea who to contact or how to report them.

I understand that implementing these ideas/suggestions wouldn't necessarily be super effective at definitively stopping them cold, but they would make clear that scammers aren't welcome, that people are looking for them, and that their accounts will be removed when found. It also raises the amount of commitment they have and the amount of time they'd have to spend setting up an account before they're able to start fishing. You don't have to make it impossible, just flip the effort vs. return curve upside down.
 

BlueFox

Legendary Member Spam Hunter Extraordinaire
Oct 26, 2015
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I think while you mean well, maybe part of the reason why these instructions don't exist is that by even providing limited guidance, should one get scammed, it could be construed that STH is partly to blame. It's expected that individuals perform due diligence to their level of comfort and it would be no different than say Craigslist.

I'm guessing that I've done more transactions on here than most given my ~500 PM conversations and haven't had issues with new or low post count members. There are about 10x as many lurkers as there are registered members (regardless of post count) active at any given time on the forum, so I think many might finally decide to register when they see something they'd like to buy. I've also had numerous people register on here specifically to ask me questions about guides I've written or to get a copy of files that wouldn't be wise to link publicly.

In many ways, it's in the interest of STH to not hinder engagement. Hard thing to balance with restrictions. Maybe I'm also a little surprised as I've not experienced a flood of PMs (or really any for that matter) of people trying to scam me.
 

Stereodude

Active Member
Feb 21, 2016
467
94
28
USA
I think while you mean well, maybe part of the reason why these instructions don't exist is that by even providing limited guidance, should one get scammed, it could be construed that STH is partly to blame. It's expected that individuals perform due diligence to their level of comfort and it would be no different than say Craigslist.
How would they be more to blame by making it harder for scammers to operate than the current situation? Unless you believe that STH management is unaware that scammers exist on the site and that they are trying to defraud the membership via the site, that premise doesn't hold water.

The scammers seem attracted to WTBs, not FSs. It's a bit harder and certainly more involved to scam someone when the scammer is the one who has to give you money up front.

I was throwing out some ideas. Maybe not all are good, but there sure seems to be room for improvement.
 

Wasmachineman_NL

Wittgenstein the Supercomputer FTW!
Aug 7, 2019
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Oh let me guess: you replied to the guy for that 5950X?

Rule of thumb: zero or low posts replying to a WTB advert = 99% of the time a scammer.
 
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Stereodude

Active Member
Feb 21, 2016
467
94
28
USA
Oh let me guess: you replied to the guy for that 5950X?

Rule of thumb: zero or low posts replying to a WTB advert = 99% of the time a scammer.
The verdict's not quite in on that one... I think it has all the hallmarks of not being legit. I'm waiting on the requested proof of life photo. The one before that who PM'd me with 0 posts located in a different country, but somehow the processor was going to get into the US for me to pickup was definitely trying to scam me. My scam-dar is pretty good. I haven't gotten taken for a ride yet.

That said, it just doesn't seem like even the slightest efforts have been taken to dissuade them or make their life more difficult. And there's no instructions on how to report them, or who to report them to.
 

Wasmachineman_NL

Wittgenstein the Supercomputer FTW!
Aug 7, 2019
1,880
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The verdict's not quite in on that one... I think it has all the hallmarks of not being legit. I'm waiting on the requested proof of life photo. The one before that who PM'd me with 0 posts located in a different country, but somehow the processor was going to get into the US for me to pickup was definitely trying to scam me. My scam-dar is pretty good. I haven't gotten taken for a ride yet.

That said, it just doesn't seem like even the slightest efforts have been taken to dissuade them or make their life more difficult. And there's no instructions on how to report them, or who to report them to.
Hit the Report button and ignore.
 
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Patrick

Administrator
Staff member
Dec 21, 2010
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I guess the challenge with this is that there is not so much we can do on the WTB side if people are going through PMs.

We have pretty strict filtering for spam/ blacklists, and etc already. Probably overly so. Without it, we would get too many bots. That is simple but takes out a lot of the spam/ scam traffic.

Even I cannot read PMs, and frankly, we do not have staff to go through them even if we did have access.

There is a report button at the end of every post and PM.

On #3, if you want to make a tips post and folks want it stickied, I am happy to.
 
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Bjorn Smith

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2019
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I guess if we start by requiring a picture of what people are selling with a "note" - similar to homelabsales. That should make the scammers at least do a little effort - I know its PITA that you have to make a note stating "yourname yyyy-mm-dd" or however your wrong date format is :) But at least you can see that its a real person trying to sell something - or its likely that they are trying to sell something.
 

Wasmachineman_NL

Wittgenstein the Supercomputer FTW!
Aug 7, 2019
1,880
620
113
I guess if we start by requiring a picture of what people are selling with a "note" - similar to homelabsales. That should make the scammers at least do a little effort - I know its PITA that you have to make a note stating "yourname yyyy-mm-dd" or however your wrong date format is :) But at least you can see that its a real person trying to sell something - or its likely that they are trying to sell something.
God no, something like it will not deter scammers at all. It's just more work for them.
 

BlueFox

Legendary Member Spam Hunter Extraordinaire
Oct 26, 2015
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Nothing stopping anyone from performing their due diligence and requesting that today?
 
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