LSI 9305-24i or 2x 9300-16i

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iliuxa007

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Sep 7, 2021
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I have a 24HDD Innovision case, it contains 2 backplanes with 12 HDD each. The backplanes have 3 miniSASHD ports.
I want to create 2x RAID5 arrays in Xpenology from the disks I have:
- 9x HDD 8Tb
- 15x HDD 6Tb
Tell me which option of using controllers would be better? 1 9305-24i for all disks or 2x 9300-16i - one for each array?
 

nexox

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May 3, 2023
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Avoid the 9300-16i, it's two 8i chips and a PCIe switch on one card which makes the power consumption, cooling, and performance all pretty unfavorable.

I would personally get a 9300-8i and a SAS expander unless you can find a really good deal on the 9305-24i.
 

ca3y6

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By the way I went the option 9400-8i plus intel RES3TV360 expander (didn't want to use a PCIe slot) for a big array of SATA SSDs (~40 drives). I kept getting IO errors or drives dropping. I replaced the expander (had bought two), pointed a big noctua fan at the heatsink of the expander (which ran hot), no improvement. It doesn't seem to be the cables either. I doubt it is power as SATA SSDs don't consume much and the problems also occurred using the drives one at a time. I ordered a 9305-24i and will try my luck without expanders. But the point being that I wonder if some combinations of expander and HBA are incompatible.
 
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nexox

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Keep in mind if you're using SATA drives then no cable can be longer than about 95cm, because the total signal length, including PCB traces, can only be 1 meter. I have personally mixed and matched all sorts of expanders and HBAs, though not specifically that Intel, and never had an issue.
 
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ca3y6

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I think all my cables are 50cm, 80cm max.

Are you aware of a good standalone expander that doesn't require a PCIe slot and plays well with LSI HBA?
 

nexox

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Are you aware of a good standalone expander that doesn't require a PCIe slot and plays well with LSI HBA?
That Intel is usually the go-to option, there's also the Adaptech 82885T, but it has two external ports that probably don't suit your setup. All of the expanders I still have (ie not running in a datacenter from one of my old jobs) are either LSI chips on backplanes (which is my preference) or really ancient SAS1 stuff (which I really need to retire.)
 
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ca3y6

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I noticed that a lot of those PCIe expanders have a molex connector. Does it mean that they can be used outside of a PCIe slot? I am not sure what they use the PCIe slot for in the first place, I assumed power (and frankly if you have to sacrifice a PCIe slot, what is the point of an expander over an additional controller?)
 

BLinux

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I noticed that a lot of those PCIe expanders have a molex connector. Does it mean that they can be used outside of a PCIe slot? I am not sure what they use the PCIe slot for in the first place, I assumed power (and frankly if you have to sacrifice a PCIe slot, what is the point of an expander over an additional controller?)
The SAS expanders use the PCIe slot mostly for the 12V power, not the PCIe lanes. It's not a PCIe device. You communicate with it via your SAS controller. The SAS expander boards that have a molex port can be used outside of a PCIe slot by providing the power it needs via that molex port. Even for boards without the molex port, you can use a PCIe powered extender as a way to provide the 12V it needs.

There are some combinations of controllers + expander, and specific firmware versions, that can result in problems. But generally speaking, compatibility is pretty good. If you're using a SAS-3 expander, it is recommended to use a SAS-3 capable controller.

One of the drawbacks of a SAS controller + SAS expander setup is that diagnosing I/O problems can be difficult and tricky because the I/O can take multiple paths. Sometimes it will look like all your drives are randomly getting errors, but it is usually not all the drives at fault. To identify the problem usually requires swapping parts in a process of elimination, as well as analyzing diagnostic information like driver error messages in the logs. I'm not recommending against a SAS expander setup, as it has benefits too, but this is one aspect of it that trips some people up when they encounter errors and aren't experienced at diagnosing the problem.
 
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nabsltd

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By the way I went the option 9400-8i plus intel RES3TV360 expander (didn't want to use a PCIe slot)
None of the expanders I have seen require a PCIe slot. Most can be placed into one for power, but all have an optional power connector that can be used instead.

On some of these expanders, I have taped off the PCIe connection so it won't short out and installed in a place where there is no motherboard slot but there wasn't anything blocking the area. I just fastened the slot bracket to the back and that was enough. The PCIe connector rested on top of the motherboard, which was enough support.
 
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ca3y6

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Weird, I just got a new HBA (9305-24i) and I still get drives dropping from the array under load (windows storage space). They are all Samsung PM863a (firmware GXT5404Q and GXT5204Q), but are not the only ones of that model in that array. And some of those drives are not even connected via the HBA, but directly to the SATA of the motherboard.

I wonder if the problem isn't power, but that would be weird even if there are many of them, SATA SSD barely consumes anything. I have a 600w PSU, but the UPS is saying that this server plus a big 12 disks synology NAS together consume less than 500w.

And I tested each drive indivudally and they were each working fine individually under load.
 

iliuxa007

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Sep 7, 2021
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Weird, I just got a new HBA (9305-24i) and I still get drives dropping from the array under load (windows storage space). They are all Samsung PM863a (firmware GXT5404Q and GXT5204Q), but are not the only ones of that model in that array. And some of those drives are not even connected via the HBA, but directly to the SATA of the motherboard.

I wonder if the problem isn't power, but that would be weird even if there are many of them, SATA SSD barely consumes anything. I have a 600w PSU, but the UPS is saying that this server plus a big 12 disks synology NAS together consume less than 500w.

And I tested each drive indivudally and they were each working fine individually under load.
maybe the problem is in the power supply itself that it does not hold stable power on the 12V line
I use 850W power supplies for the server