Looking for alternative fan, need specifications..

[katit]

Trying to quiet down my P4000M intel chassis. I did everything prescribed with BIOS and it is reasonably quiet. It's got 2 fans, one for expansions area/ram and another for CPU.

And those fans are different according to labels.

By manually stopping them both I figured that source of this very annoying "drone" noise is coming from CPU fan. I'm going to replace it with something else. Preferably Noctua as I have good luck with their fans.

So.. Question is - what do I need? I know current fan is 120mm x 38mm. 12V, PWM (4 wire)
But I can't find any detailed specs on it so I can find comparable Noctua product. Also, on Noctua website there is no "thick" fans like this, they all 1inch (25mm) fans. It's not really a problem, I can make thinner fan work. Main question - which one is comparable in specs?

Is Noctua NF-S12A PWM decent enough for this task? It needs to push air through 2x E5-2670 passive coolers under idle..

Also, how do I describe my "use case"? Which fan is right for me?
It is radiators, but it's under shroud so.. Not sure which one it should be


P.S. I think I can go with most powerful Noctua, right? Another important note is that this is NOT 100% duty server. It is idle 99% of the time so it's not like I'm going to have cooling problems if fan is not going to push as much as original one..

 

[Jon Massey]

Datasheet for that Nidec is here: http://www.nidecpg.com/fanpdfs/va450dcf.pdf

220CFM is ~370m3/h for comparison with the Noctuas. I'm not sure how to make a meaningful comparison between the pressure graphs in the datasheet and the single figure given for the Noctuas.

For pushing air through heatsinks and rads you want a high static pressure fan, which would suggest the F12 not the S12A. Even the S12A only pushes 63cfm at full pelt so it's quite a lot less than what the Nidec can do.

I'd be tempted to get the F12-industiral 3000 which gives you the headroom to push up to 110CFM @ 7.6mm H2o if the board decides it needs it. Probably overkill, mind. Either way, I'd be concerned at the low pressure of the S12A.

 

[katit]

Datasheet for that Nidec is here: http://www.nidecpg.com/fanpdfs/va450dcf.pdf

Wow. This is powerful fan. It runs at 1200 RPM or so but makes some noise..

I'd be tempted to get the F12-industiral 3000 which gives you the headroom to push up to 110CFM @ 7.6mm H2o if the board decides it needs it. Probably overkill, mind.

Got this one. Will report how it changed a sound..

 

[fractal]

Please record your temperatures running prime95 or equivalent before you swap out the Nidec fan. Then record the temperature running the same synthetic load with any replacement fans. I would consider the wimpier but quieter fan if the Nidec is keeping your processors in the 60's with a synthetic load. There is no point in even trying the S12A if you are cooking in the 80's even with the Nidec. Ideally you don't want to be worse than the rugged Nitec but do set a threshold you are comfortable with, like 80c, and make sure whatever you settle on can keep you below that limit with whatever synthetic load you pick.

 

[katit]

Please record your temperatures running prime95 or equivalent before you swap out the Nidec fan. Then record the temperature running the same synthetic load with any replacement fans. I would consider the wimpier but quieter fan if the Nidec is keeping your processors in the 60's with a synthetic load. There is no point in even trying the S12A if you are cooking in the 80's even with the Nidec. Ideally you don't want to be worse than the rugged Nitec but do set a threshold you are comfortable with, like 80c, and make sure whatever you settle on can keep you below that limit with whatever synthetic load you pick.

Just out of curiosity I will. But not sure why I should be so concerned? As I said, this is dev server. CPU use is random spikes. It will never be anything close to what Prime95 does.

 

[katit]

Ok, I did test with Nidec fan. Keep in mind, per specs it's 5300RPM fan
In BIOS it's set to be as quiet as possible.

Server idles and CPU temps around 40C, fan speed is ~1100
I applied Primer 95, temps started to climb

With current programming - FAN didn't get up much. Over 70C it started to spin little faster.
When temperatures got ~85C - FAN got up and brought temps down to 79C
It stabilized around 75C. IPMI reported 2160RPMs at this time for CPU fan

So.. As I see from Nidec fan graph - around 2k RMPs there is 0.35 static pressure and 180CFM airflow

Let's see what Noctua fan does. Should have it in 2 days. I got most powerful one from them..

Meanwhile, if someone knows of quiet 38mm fans - let me know. Main issue is when it idles at 1000RPMs it makes bad noise..

 

[Drewy]

I digress somewhat but many years ago, back in the days of the celery 300A I had one of those Nidec's kill a PC.
I'd pulled it from an old IBM netfinity and mounted in the side of my trusty pc blowing out. I swear that you could feel the air blast on the other side of the room. It resulted in a case temp drop of 20 degrees (centegrade). Unfortunately because it was sucking out of the case it created negative pressure and caused the PSU fan to stall....you can guess the rest

 

[fractal]

Just out of curiosity I will. But not sure why I should be so concerned? As I said, this is dev server. CPU use is random spikes. It will never be anything close to what Prime95 does.

Never say never.

Now you know. Any fan that lets the temperature peaks at 85 but can keep it under 80 while making less noise good enough for anything you throw at it. My thinking is if it can handle Prime95 then it will be able to handle my workload. It will be one less thing to worry about if you start getting issues down the road and wonder if your quiet fan is the problem.

 

[katit]

Update!

Not the same server, but 100% identical server at home. I installed new fan and benchmarked..
With same BIOS settings (acoustic) - server idles at 55C. Noctua FAN stays at 700-800 RPMs according to IPMI

Applying Prime95.
Temps climb up to 80-85 quickly. Fan starts to climb up slowly, get's to 1600, 2000 and stays. Temps on 1st CPU hit 90-95, fan climbs up further and finally all way up to 2700RPM
Temps going down and stabilize around 80-81

So, I think it will be OK

Question is, what temps is OK with E5 xeons? Is it OK if they idle at 55C?
Or should I adjust BIOS and make it spin little faster on IDLE?

Overall, what do you think? It's definitely quiet comparing to OEM

 

[T_Minus]

55*C idle is fine, of course it COULD idle lower but 55*C won't hurt it... even running 24/7 at 85*C won't hurt it. Depends on the generation E5 but they can take a lot of heat before thermal throttle occurs.

 

[katit]

Great. Now I'm really tempted to pull another fan (PCI/expansions area) and see what specs are. That fan is same x38 size but different type. And that area stays very cool. Maybe I should use that fan in CPU area and put Noctua fan into PCI bay

 

[katit]

More ideas.. Second fan in this chassis - Delta AFB1212SHE and it cools expansion slots area (in my case nothing there and this fan never get's any speed from MB)

Specifications: 120x120x38 mm, 151.85 CFM @ 3700 RPM, 53.0 dBA, 12.60 watts, 1.05 amps, Maximum Air Pressure 14.50 mm H²O

So, it's somewhere in between BETAV fan and Noctua. Next test is to put this fan on CPU and put Noctua to PCI... And issue. Cable won't reach Need to get extension I guess

 

[katit]

I think I will keep that combo. With that fan in CPU bay - temp went up to 90C but fan climbed up to 2500 and brought and kept temp at below 80. So, it will be just right combo.