Looking for advice on a case for SSDs and HDDs.

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T_Minus

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Your HBA specs are here: Adaptec - Adaptec 71605H Host Bus Adapter
"• Up to 6600 MB/s sequential throughput (64KB blocks)"

I'd evaluate your needs. Likely faster to keep SSD on a separate controller(s), and mounted internally not on the back plane depending no your requirements.

Do you have the network to even max 1 SSD though?
 

HotFix

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If you figure the SSDs could do 500+ MB/s * 4 SSDs, then that only comes to 2000 MB/s + whatever the HDDs could crank out. I think the card would be fine. The issue is the 24Gb/s = 3GB/s. So in theory a single 24Gb/s pipe could be 2/3rds saturated by the SSDs and leave only 1000MB/s for the HDDs. Realistically that' probably isn't that bad with that drive configuration but I always want to be able to grow to 20 drives at some point and it sounds like the single SAS *could* be a choke point.

The motherboard I am looking at is the http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x10sdv-tln4f-review-platform/
It only has one PCI express slot so I would be limited to 1 card and the onboard SATA ports.

For network I would originally do 2 or 4 x 1GB LACP, but I have plans to upgrade to 10Gb down the road which means I would have 24Gb throughput. I also plan to have a couple of VMs on the local machine (not many) so the network wouldn't even come into play for those.

At this point I think I am sold on the SC846, I'm just trying to max/min the SATA hard drive connectivity because I am anal retentive. :)

FYI I reached out to the seller you mention and dropped your handle (and referenced ServeTheHome forums as well). They responded to my question with a question, but at least that is moving forward.
 

T_Minus

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I hope we can still get deals then. Fox, Hen-House...

Also, and most importantly to me at no point did I give you permission to use me as a reference.
 

HotFix

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I thought when you dropped their name a few times and mentioned how they helped you, it was a good thing to reference you. All I said is you referred me to them.

Sorry if I did something wrong. I can't imagine how referencing "T_Minus" would somehow stop you from getting deals from them...
 

T_Minus

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That is not what I meant at all.

If you need more information you can PM me.
 

Patrick

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The newer 12gbps LSI cards and expanders are supposed to do this. I believe the 12gbps PMC Sierra expanders will do this too. I have an Intel expander sitting in the lab with no time to test unfortunately.

The LSI technology is called DataBolt IIRC.
 
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T_Minus

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Back on track, I don't think you've addressed how you plan to max out that many SSD and Spinners so that your backplane is maxed out... you'd need a pretty heft workload :) Which I'm not saying is impossible, it just seems to me it will work as-is for your situation :D and if you want faster go 2nd raid card with SSD inside chassis.
 

HotFix

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The newer 12gbps LSI cards and expanders are supposed to do this. I believe the 12gbps PMC Sierra expanders will do this too. I have an Intel expander sitting in the lab with no time to test unfortunately.

The LSI technology is called DataBolt IIRC.
It looks like the LSI DataBolt (you recalled correctly) require a 12G card and 12G expander to give all of the performance benefits to 6G SAS and SATA drives. It's a great idea but it only looks like one or two SC846s have the 12G backplane, and I doubt I can find them for a cheap price. :)

Between these two following discussions I think I got the answer to the two questions I was pondering:
Bought a used server, need some background on the backplane
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-home-storage-server.4237/
(PigLover seems pretty smart - good thing they are a moderator here ;))
The first is that technically breaking out each SAS port on an HBA to 4 channels to individual drives, would net a better performance because there would be no chance for oversubscription (what I was concerned about with accessing 20 drives through the single 24Gb/s 4 x wide SAS channel) and better latency. However this approach is limited in the amount of drives that are supported to being 4 per port * the number of ports on the HBA.

The second is that dual connecting a SAS HBA to a dual ported expander would do nothing for SATA drives as they are single channel. I would need interposers either in the expander or with each drive, something that's not going to happen with one of the SC846's and 3.5" HDDs. I think I even read that trying to connect a single HBA to both ports on the SAS2-846EL2 would cause issues with SATA drives.

So I can go with one of the SAS expander backplanes (the single port model would be fine for SATA drives) supporting all the drives I want over a single 24Gb/s cable/wide channel, or get a non-expander backplane and break out each drive individual with the limitation being the number of drive ports I can support.

The reality is I will probably never come close to hitting 24 Gb/s AKA 3000MB/s except during a local (non-network) stress test. So in theory the single SAS2 expander connection should be sufficient, of course unless the 24Gb/s isn't shared efficiently between 20 drives, like it is split into 4 lanes that have to be rotated to 4 drives at a time (yes I am overthinking things again, I tend to do that :D).

At this point I think I will go with the SAS2 expander unless they aren't available at a reasonable price compared to the non-expander. The additional benefit with this approach is I only have to buy a dual-port HBA versus a quad port, because I will only be using one internally and will have one for future expansion.

Thank you everyone for your feedback, information sharing, and overall patience as I came (relatively) up to speed. If anyone sees anything wrong with what I wrote or has a different POV, please share it.
 
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HotFix

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It's finally done. The SC846E16-R1200B was purchased after some back and forth with an EBay reseller for just under $300 shipped (good thing I don't live far from them). If it comes in good shape (and it is supposed to have the air shroud) then that will be a great deal.

Now I need to pick up the 2 x 2.5" drive Bay and the DVD drive add on so it is totally pimped out. :D
 
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HotFix

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From what I read in the SC846 manual there are two positions in the case:
Position

Description

Position A

N/A (Default), or single 3.5" HDD tray, or dual 2.5" HDD tray.

Position B

Dummy cover (default), or single 3.5" HDD tray, single 2.5" HDD tray, DVD, or FDD.

So the way I read this I can have the dual HDD tray in Position A and then the DVD drive in Position B. The graphics in the manual look like this is possible with the dual hard drive being a double stack unit like this picture: SUPERMICRO MCP-220-00044-0N 1x3.5" to 2x2.5" HD Converter Bracket For 5015A Series Barebone - Newegg.com
 

TeeJayHoward

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So the way I read this I can have the dual HDD tray in Position A and then the DVD drive in Position B. The graphics in the manual look like this is possible.
Aah, I see. You're talking about the internal 2.5" drives, not the external-facing hot swappable 2.5" drives. Gotcha. Yup, you're good!

(And actually, I think we have a couple of these at work configured that way, now that I think about it!)
 
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HotFix

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Aah, I see. You're talking about the internal 2.5" drives, not the external-facing hot swappable 2.5" drives. Gotcha. Yup, you're good!

(And actually, I think we have a couple of these at work configured that way, now that I think about it!)
I did buy 4 extra drive tray adapters for my 4 SSD 2.5" drives I will be using for the Storage Spaces virtual disks. The internal drive cage is for my mirrored OS drive. :)

It looks like the 2x hot swap 2.5" cage is intended for the SC846B variant. Honestly had I known this was an option before my bought my internal drive cage I probably would have tried to make this work in my non-B chassis first and just gone with a USB 3.0 DVD drive. Oh well... it probably wouldn't have worked in my SC846E16-R1200B anyway. :)
 
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HotFix

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Anyone know if this slim SATA DVD drive would fit?
Samsung Electronics Internal Slim Drive Optical Drives SN-208FB/BEBE:Amazon:Computers & Accessories

The Supermicro site only lists a TEAC and Panasonic drive, neither of which are DVD writers, and they seem to carry an unnecessary $$$ with them. I did purchase this adapter which is a Supermicro part number:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-...TA-DVD-Kit-w-Bracket-For-SC846-/201363343848?
I think the DVD drive will fit in the tray and in the case opening, but I am hoping else with an SC846 can confirm.

Annoying "imicros" is actually SuperBiiz as that is who apparently processed my PayPal charge. There are 3 "San Jose, California" resellers of that part on Ebay who are all selling it for the same price and have almost the exact same listing (including highlighting). I suspect they are all SuperBiiz...
 

T_Minus

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Aah, I see. You're talking about the internal 2.5" drives, not the external-facing hot swappable 2.5" drives. Gotcha. Yup, you're good!

(And actually, I think we have a couple of these at work configured that way, now that I think about it!)
Yep, the adapters ~12 on ebay.
 

T_Minus

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Anyone know if this slim SATA DVD drive would fit?
Samsung Electronics Internal Slim Drive Optical Drives SN-208FB/BEBE:Amazon:Computers & Accessories

The Supermicro site only lists a TEAC and Panasonic drive, neither of which are DVD writers, and they seem to carry an unnecessary $$$ with them. I did purchase this adapter which is a Supermicro part number:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-...TA-DVD-Kit-w-Bracket-For-SC846-/201363343848?
I think the DVD drive will fit in the tray and in the case opening, but I am hoping else with an SC846 can confirm.

Annoying "imicros" is actually SuperBiiz as that is who apparently processed my PayPal charge. There are 3 "San Jose, California" resellers of that part on Ebay who are all selling it for the same price and have almost the exact same listing (including highlighting). I suspect they are all SuperBiiz...
It's MUCH easier to burn a CD at your work station than go to your rack, put in a cd, pull console, and burn a cd. And it's way easier than to go to your rack to load a cd to go back to your workstation to tell it to burn to go back to the rack to get it.

Just some food for thought :)
 

HotFix

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It's MUCH easier to burn a CD at your work station than go to your rack, put in a cd, pull console, and burn a cd. And it's way easier than to go to your rack to load a cd to go back to your workstation to tell it to burn to go back to the rack to get it.

Just some food for thought :)
The fact that it is a burner is just a nice to have. I do want to have a DVD drive in the unit though, and the one I found seems to be the cheapest. I'm hoping someone with an SC846 chassis can confirm that it looks like it will fit.
 

T_Minus

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I don't know anyone who has a CD in theirs to be honest.