Looking for 16 port HBAs - what are my options?

Notice: Page may contain affiliate links for which we may earn a small commission through services like Amazon Affiliates or Skimlinks.

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
So up until now I've been perfectly happy with my reflashed M1015 HBAs in my servers.

However I'm in the midst of rebuilding one of my storage servers. It's going into a 16-bay 3U from the 8-bay desktop it used to be in - primarily because it needs a few more hard discs to expand the array a little and give some spare capacity for the future. As a consequence, the LSI 9211-8i I'm using currently won't be enough to feed the 16 bays in the 3U.

The progeny of this system is that it's been transplanted from an NSC-800 case, and as such is a mITX motherboard, so I have a single PCIe slot at my disposal - thus doubling up on M1015's isn't an option without changing the MB (and despite the 5yr old motherboard and CPU there's absolutely no need to upgrade this from my POV - especially given the price of RAM and Xeon E3's these days). Naturally I refer to the stickied thread about OEM HBAs, and I see there are precious few OEM options for 16-port internal HBAs.

So my first thought was to start looking for cards like the LSI 9201-16i... but a shufti through ebay turns up a bunch of suspiciously cheaply priced models originating from China or Hong Kong. Spidey sense says that these are entirely possibly likely counterfeits, and comparing a few of the pictures offered shows a worrying disparity between heatsinks and the likes. Does anyone have any experience on the legitimacy of these? Being an EU-based kinda guy, restricting myself to EU-based sellers (almost all from Poland or Germany), I see that 9201-16i's are going for £400-600 which is... well, pretty expensive, especially for stuff that doesn't seem to be brand new (given that this is a pretty ancient HBA by now).

Hence my call out to the forums. Is it worth taking a chance on a £120 card of unknown provenance from China? Should I splurge on a barely-below-list-price card from the EU, hoping that it's not just someone selling a counterfeit card? Or are there some other bargain options (such as reflashing an OEM card I might have missed) that forum members can recommend?

(My previous considerations to a new 16-port HBA was buying a board like the X10SDV-4C-7TP4F which comes with a 16-port HBA onboard... but it's £600 plus the cost of new RAM, and if I'm going to buy a new board I may as well just use two 9211-8i's).
 

Marsh

Moderator
May 12, 2013
2,643
1,496
113
Out of the box thinking here.
Ebay search "lsi 16e" , show many cards between $25 to $30
Challenge is hook up sas external cable to backplane neatly and inexpensive.
 

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
Literally out of the box ;) I'm looking for internal ports here - not really interested in an external SAS box given I've already got 16 internal bays. Neatly to me means a 16 port internal card.

What I'm really wanting to know is if a) there's any OEM cards out there I don't know about b) any guaranteed server pull resellers out there or c) STH user experiences with the cards from China and if anyone can verify as to which might be legitimate or not. I last used ebay about 15 years ago when they were already a wretched hive and my eternal cynicism indicates they've not likely improved since, although of course I'm happy to be corrected :)
 

Evan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,346
598
113
9201-16i, 9305-16i, few others I am sure.
9201’s I have always seen Super cheap, I think they are real though, not fakes.
OEM I don’t know who used them but I Ma sure the IBM,Fujitsu,Lenovo etc probably did.
 

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
Rightpondian 9201-16i's are in the region of £400-600 from most retailers whilst the somewhat suspicious Chinese models are selling for £120-150, but after some searching around I'm still not sure if the price disparity is "FU EU" gouging, a glut of somewhat stone-aged cards, or the aforementioned counterfeit.

The 9305-16i would be preferable to the 9201-16i mostly because it comse with 8643 connectors and is a half-height card - but for that I'm seeing zero of the chinese sellers (not sure if this is a good or bad thing), and UK/EU sellers in the £450-700 bracket. Some US sellers for that one at ~£300 but postage is running at £20-100 extra and then there's customs on top of that.

Clearly I've been spoilt with my M1015's which I bought brand new at less than £100...
 

pricklypunter

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2015
1,708
515
113
Canada
Can't use a 2x8 riser card and an additional M1015?
Depending on what you are pumping through the card, one of the older gen 3Gbps 16 port cards, based on the 1068e could be an option :)
 

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
Well I'd always just thought SAS expanders were a backplane thing before, never looked for a PCIe variant; generally I'd steer clear of expander backplanes on the grounds of KISS if at all possible. But I assume such a thing requires a PCIe slot to plug into as well as another HBA to feed into it?
 

Robert Q

Member
Jan 20, 2016
38
11
8
66
Well I'd always just thought SAS expanders were a backplane thing before, never looked for a PCIe variant; generally I'd steer clear of expander backplanes on the grounds of KISS if at all possible. But I assume such a thing requires a PCIe slot to plug into as well as another HBA to feed into it?
If I recall correctly, the PCIe connectors on the card are used just for power but an alternate means to power the card is available via connector on the top of the card, so a PCIe board slot is not required. I might be mistaken but quite sure this is the case. For your consideration.
 

kapone

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2015
1,095
642
113
The IBM 16 port expander (search for FRU 46M0997) could work for this and can be had extremely cheaply ($30ish). It does draw power from the PCI-e slot and does not have an alternate power port, but that problem can be solved by an el cheapo powered "riser" (typically used for mining rigs and can be had on Amazon for $5ish).

Since you have an ITX board, space is not an even an issue. Keep your m1015, connect the two ports of the M1015 to the two 'in" ports on the expander, and now you have 16 "out" ports.
 

Robert Q

Member
Jan 20, 2016
38
11
8
66
Literally out of the box ;) I'm looking for internal ports here - not really interested in an external SAS box given I've already got 16 internal bays. Neatly to me means a 16 port internal card.

What I'm really wanting to know is if a) there's any OEM cards out there I don't know about b) any guaranteed server pull resellers out there or c) STH user experiences with the cards from China and if anyone can verify as to which might be legitimate or not. I last used ebay about 15 years ago when they were already a wretched hive and my eternal cynicism indicates they've not likely improved since, although of course I'm happy to be corrected :)
Not sure I would dismiss Marsh's suggestion so quickly, as no reason you can't route the cables from the external ports right back into your case through an open slot assuming you don't mind some cable sticking out the back of the box. I don't think he was suggesting you get an external SAS box. More about proper cables and a cable routing problem along with the aesthetics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marsh

Stux

Member
May 29, 2017
30
10
8
46
Sounds like the Intel RES2SC240 SAS Expander is what you want.

Connect both ports of your M1015 to it, then connect the next 4 ports to your 16 bays.

The expander can be mounted wherever you want... and just needs a molex to power it.

Alternatively, get an LSI 16i card.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robert Q

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
Many thanks for all your input so far chaps, much appreciated. So far what I'm not hearing anyone say is "go buy one of those cheap 9201-16i's, they're probably genuine/I've bought one and not had any problems with it", so it looks like a ~£150 16-port HBA is unrealistic, at least if I want to sleep at night.

Speaking of which, the thought of using an external SAS connector looping back into the case is enough to give me nightmares ;)

The 9305-16i looks a damn nice card, but damn expensive along with it... although not as expensive as I'd expect it to be given the cost of the 9201-16i's, and the s/h cost isn't that much less than the brand new cost; £470 new vs. £400 and up refurbed. Although it's nearly as much as the SM motherboard, I suspect it'd last me for at least two motherboards' worth of upgrades, so it has (hopefully) longevity and simplicity going for it. There's the slightly less sexy 9300-16i selling for about £420 new and practically invisible on ebay.

So it looks like the Intel SAS expander is a goer then, so a special thanks to those who mentioned it - I've literally never seen an expander chip that wasn't part of a backplane (or a "cheating" HBA) before, and I've only got experience with using those with SAS discs at work. Regarding connectivity in my rackmount case though, I assume that:
a) the "in" ports from an M1015 would be in the form of short 8087 -> 8087 cables:
b) will it be secure enough just being held by the bracket without there being a PCIe slot underneath...? given there's not a lot of headroom between the connectors and the roof of the enclosure, the bending of the cables might put a lot of strain on the board...
c) does stuff like SMART passthrough from SATA discs work through an expander?

Cost of the SAS expander is another issue. Don't know what wizardry you use in the US, but it's going for £370 new and the cheapest I've seen it used is £170... still miles away from what I'd call cheap.

(Goes off to read more proper gubbins 'bout expanders)
 

Robert Q

Member
Jan 20, 2016
38
11
8
66
Question a) I think I can answer, yes you would use an 8087->8087 cable. You have enough room in the case based on a small board that cable management should not be a problem, so longer cables may be ok.

Question b) can be addressed by something like this (https://www.amazon.com/Mini-SFF-808...D=41Sao47-rwL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail), or perhaps this (https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Min...2&sr=8-17&keywords=sff-8087+to+sff-8087+angle) unless your are using existing cables hanging around, then it depends on how stiff the cable is...but options exist.

Question c) I can't really address, as it has been some time since I've used an expander but at least with the Intel card I would strongly suspect you would get SMART info. Perhaps someone else can help with this.

Lastly, is purchase in the US (ebay, newegg, whatever) possible and perhaps cheaper including shipping and VAT than purchase from your country? Just wondering.

Good luck with your build.
 

Jon Massey

Active Member
Nov 11, 2015
339
82
28
37
16e + loop the cables back in via a spare PCIe slot in the chassis (which you'll have by the sounds of things as you're using a small board). potentially ugly but will save you a fortune over a 16i. If you want to make it prettier then you can get adapters which take up a single slot: e.g. "+getMessage("iPrintVerKit")+" + two 1ft 8088 cables to connect the ports on the HBA to the adapter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marsh

Rand__

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2014
6,626
1,767
113
Been using 16e for a while and except a single bad cable no issues at all.
 

Lost-Benji

Member
Jan 21, 2013
424
23
18
The arse end of the planet
I recently got somewhat caught/burnt by cheap ebay 16 port HBA's. While they POST there BIOS as LSI, they fail to be detected as LSI by MEGAREC BIOS tools for flashing. I am suspecting tha they are knock-offs but luckily, I was able to disable booting on them at least to stop them hanging bloody FreeNAS (about to blow FN away and go back to Server 2012r2 / 2016) booting.
 

EffrafaxOfWug

Radioactive Member
Feb 12, 2015
1,394
511
113
Long story short, I've pulled the trigger on a new 9305-16i. I couldn't find any reputable sellers of those SAS expanders flogging them for any less than £300, whereas I found a new 9305 for sale at £380. And of course that means I'll be able to find another home for one of my trusty M1015's and will be less of a headache cable-wise.

In most cases, buying new from the US worked out considerably more expensive than buying from a UK or EU merchant - and would have been even more so once duty was taken in. Why on earth they think that $150 is reasonable postage across the atlantic for a <1kg item is beyond me. Plus of course buying from the US or elsewhere leaves me up shit creek in the event of any hardware problems.

Incidentally there seems to have been a bit of a fire sale on the 9305 series recently, looks like no-one is getting any more stock in... some people were selling off theirs cheap (yay for me), some are now selling them for north of £700 compared to the ~£500 they were at a couple of weeks back. The 9400 and 9405W seem to be the new hotness but they're seemingly quite a lot more expensive than the 9305's were.
 

Aluminum

Active Member
Sep 7, 2012
431
46
28
Incidentally there seems to have been a bit of a fire sale on the 9305 series recently, looks like no-one is getting any more stock in... some people were selling off theirs cheap (yay for me), some are now selling them for north of £700 compared to the ~£500 they were at a couple of weeks back. The 9400 and 9405W seem to be the new hotness but they're seemingly quite a lot more expensive than the 9305's were.
The 9400 series are nice, they are a hybrid of SAS/SATA and NVMe/PCI-e switches, one card to rule them all. I got a 9400-16i for $439 back in jan at newegg which was about the same as 9300 retail, out of stock atm though.

You can start on spinning rust or regular ssds and migrate to nvme, or mix in your zil drives etc all on the same controller. You have to be mindful of drive bay compatibility but the ports are 100% compatible with breakout (4 sas/sata) and u.2 to single drive (8639?) cables. Some of my retail optane drives came with u.2 cables and I found additional cables for $30. The other ones came with custom m.2 to drive cables, did I mention I love optane?

Megaomnicorp I mean broadcom (someone break them up please) is going to release cables with integrated pcie switching in the future too. Though cramming many drives through just x8 would be for more capacity oriented drives but the market is obviously going towards 100% nvme.