Lian Li D8000 for home file server chassis?

[tullnd]

I've been researching a rebuild of my home server for a few months and am about ready to start buying. I'm hoping to replace an aging Synology DS-1511+ and harvest the 5x3TB drives in it. I also have about 10x1Tb Hitachi platters laying around I'd like to use. Currently running all my software on a i5-2500k tower setup, using Ubuntu.

I'd like to consolidate this all into one case. I'll be buying a new motherboard(IPMI is a feature I can't live without now since it'll be headless). I'd need at least 16 bays, but I don't really see myself ever needing much more than 24 or so. Hot swap is nice, but this is not high availability, so as long as it's not horrific to access the drives, I don't mind having them mounted.

The D8000 seems to run about $375 or so. I know I'll need to pick up fans for it, but they can be quiet. I'll need a power supply, but it'll be a simple ATX. 20 3.5" bays that are easily accessible from the front. Plenty of case room, and it's on wheels. There's 5.25 bays that can be converted for a few more 3.5" drive slots if I need it.

Yes, I'll need to purchase either some type of expander or multiple SAS/Sata cards(it seems like 3 cards would be cheaper/easier than an expander though). I think I'll be running FreeNas possibly on the new build, so I believe there's no issue there running multiple cards.

Anyone have any serious reasons NOT to consider this box? I've been seriously tempted by the SuperMicro chassis. This machine will be in a basement. However, the only rack I have is a 12" depth wall mount. My pfsense box is in a small SM 505-203b chassis. Switches are also in that rack. I don't need a full depth one. But the depth of a full rack SM 846 makes it awkward to place. I don't mind the noise issue, but I feel like the expander is the only thing I'll benefit from, but I still need to track one down that supports SAS2 to avoid issues with larger drives. Any good deals end up with motherboard/processors that aren't the type I want and may even be a bad idea due to power consumption, so I'm not necessarily saving on that end either.

That was a lot of uncoordinated word vomit above. Short question, for similar out of pocket costs, any real negative reason against a Lian Li D8000 over a SM chassis if I don't NEED more than 24 bays, don't NEED hot swap, and don't have a full depth rack to mount the SM chassis on anyways?

 

[ttabbal]

Having done it both ways, the Supermicro chassis is the way to go. I got a direct attach type, the TQ style where each bay has an individual connector. 3 HBAs, 6 SAS to SATA breakout cables, and it's running. It's more complicated to wire, but for one box it's no big deal.

Keep in mind that just because you can rack it, that doesn't mean you have to. Mine sits on a wire shelf. It takes up the whole shelf, but it works fine. I have switches and other gear on it as well. I think of it as my ghetto rack.

 

[tullnd]

Hmmm, just so I'm sure I'm figuring this all out correctly in my head....

You're suggesting a TQ model. I found this one here on Ebay for $219.99 plus about $75 in shipping. Basically, I'd harvest the internal motherboard/processor, replace with my own(Intel and probably SM board), and then re-use existing cabling and source 3 controller cards. So about $300 for the case shipped, then if my HBA is about $75 each, possibly an additional $225 for 3 of those, so $525 before I buy the processor/ram/motherboard.

The alternative is a regular SC846 chassis, like this one instead, which is only $100 plus shipping(much cheaper shipping too, less then $40). The expander here is NOT SAS2/large hard drive compliant. However...I could buy this expander, SAS-846A for $250 or maybe a little less. If I understand correctly, this one directly passes through whatever source HBA I plug in, so it'll work with any size SATA and also SAS2/3, correct? Then I only need one HBA, instead of 3. I'm at $140 shipped for the case, plus $250 for the replacement expander, so $390, then about $75 for the expander?

I get that I could re-sell the motherboard/ram with the first combo, but I doubt for much money(if at all). Seems like it'd be cheaper to grab a regular SC846 and upgrade the expander. What am I missing?

 

[T_Minus]

For home... go with expander backplane if needed! 2 less HBA is a lot less heat and power. So either keep your drive # under max for single onboard/hba you use or go with an expander. Adding the extra cables, extra hbas, etc... is not worth it

The 846 with expander backplane gets my vote.

This not only solves your HBA issue you also now have power supplies too.

Grab a 2008 or 3008 based HBA and you're ready to go!

 

[ttabbal]

If you can find a price you like for the SAS2 backplane model, it really IS a nice option. It's also the most wanted version, so finding one for a good price can be tricky.

I got one like this from this seller... Supermicro 24 Bay Chassis SAS846TQ Server AMD QC 1.80GHz 16GB 8x 2GB H8DME-2 | eBay

The internals are pretty worthless, but it's got pretty much everything you need to get started. I got 3 Dell H310 controllers, about $35/ea, and 6 SAS->SATA breakout cables. The H310s need to be flashed for IT mode if you're doing ZFS. I'm not sure about other setups, but if you're not using the hardware RAID, it's a good idea.

That particular seller is about 30 minutes away from me, so I did local pickup to avoid shipping costs. Note that most of these used servers do NOT come with the screws for the HDDs. If you're ordering parts anyway, make sure to grab a bag of Supermicro screws from ebay. They are cheap, but need to be flat-head and such to fit. It's easier to just get the official screws. If you aren't using a SM motherboard, get the chassis cable adapter as well. For the 846, I used CBL-0084L. The part numbers are at the bottom of the Supermicro pages for the cases. You might also need extension/splitter cables for ATX12V, fans, etc.. Those are hard to know for sure without having the motherboard and case in hand, but something to be aware of.

The 846A is basically the same as the TQ, except that it uses SAS connectors rather than SATA connectors. So for 24 drives you have 6 cables, not 24. Neither is really an expander, they are called backplanes. Expanders let you multiply the number of drives connected to a controller. Just in case you get weird results from searches.

Another nice thing about these server cases is that you can use SSI motherboards. They tend to have more slots, and are often cheaper on the used market than ATX as SSI boards are too big for most ATX cases.

As for heat/power, the H310s don't seem to use a ton of power, and I'd be curious to know if the expander chips are really that much more efficient than the controller chips. They do get warm, my uncalibrated mark 1 finger thermometer guesses 10W each.. I did a search though and found this.

LSI Host Bus Adapter (HBA) Power Consumption Comparison - ServeTheHome

Need to remember to get my finger calibrated.

 

[tullnd]

Ok, so I do think I see one fault with the second scenario I have above....with the SC846E1-900RB, where I wanted to replace the SAS 1 expander with the BPN-SAS-846A....that is just direct attach. So it cleans up the wiring issues of the TQ, but is STILL direct attach, not expander, so I'd still need several HBA's for it to work with that many drives, right? Or an HBA that supports enough drives by itself? So instead, I'd need a BPN-SAS2-EL1(orEL2 would work, but I really don't need the second port)? Those seem to be $500 or more, which drives me up to $650 to build one, before buying the HBA.


edit - I posted right after ttabbal posted and didn't see your reply until this. So I'll look and see what has SAS2 expander already in it for the $650 price range vs going the route you suggested and just direct wiring and running multiple HBA's.

 

[ttabbal]

Ok, so I do think I see one fault with the second scenario I have above....with the SC846E1-900RB, where I wanted to replace the SAS 1 expander with the BPN-SAS-846A....that is just direct attach. So it cleans up the wiring issues of the TQ, but is STILL direct attach, not expander, so I'd still need several HBA's for it to work with that many drives, right? Or an HBA that supports enough drives by itself? So instead, I'd need a BPN-SAS2-EL1(orEL2 would work, but I really don't need the second port)? Those seem to be $500 or more, which drives me up to $650 to build one, before buying the HBA.

I don't see a problem with it. The SAS2 backplanes are pricey, particularly when parted out. Once in a while you can get a deal on the whole chassis with one. I think Patrick here was selling an SAS2 backplane, might want to check his for sale thread. I want to say it was about $300....

You won't find a decent price on a 24 port SAS2 card. They are rare, if they even exist, and therefore, expensive. 8 port cards are super common. I've seen 16 port, but again, $400 is a good price for one. If you shop a bit, you can get a standalone expander from HP or Intel for about $100-$150, wire that up to a direct attach backplane, and you're in business. 3 HBAs was cheaper, and if I go SSD later, faster. With spinners, it doesn't matter.

I don't find the wiring to be an issue really. I used 1M cables and had enough to route them nicely so they aren't in the way all the time. And wiring them is a one time deal really. Don't get me wrong, less wires/connectors IS a good thing, I just don't get all the fuss about it.

 

[tullnd]

I don't find the wiring to be an issue really. I used 1M cables and had enough to route them nicely so they aren't in the way all the time. And wiring them is a one time deal really. Don't get me wrong, less wires/connectors IS a good thing, I just don't get all the fuss about it.

I'm with you. I don't mind doing the wiring. But if it was gonna cost $100 more after the extra cost of the wires to have it a little more elegant, I'd consider that.

So I guess my only question left is, if I get a TQ case/backplane, I just need to figure out what HBA's I want and source 3 of those. Every motherboard I've looked at has plenty of PCIe slots for these, as the only other card I could ever see myself adding is maybe a SFP+ card in the future.

I guess if a cheap SAS2 backplane pops up, I can always swap that in place of the TQ backplane and switch later on down the road.