Lenovo Thinkcentre/ThinkStation Tiny (Project TinyMiniMicro) Reference Thread

[john40406]

I don't have much experience with Openwrt, I might be more help with OPNsense, but I believe you can look through the logs/dmesg in Openwrt to see the same kind of output. Look for warnings around unsupported SFPs like in this thread: Unsupported SFP ixgbe

Yes, Unsupported SFP error message is in the logs, I should have stated that earlier.


Wed Jul 26 21:57:47 2023 kern.info kernel: [ 6.781661] 8021q: adding VLAN 0 to HW filter on device eth3
Wed Jul 26 21:57:47 2023 kern.err kernel: [ 6.806717] i40e 0000:01:00.0: Rx/Tx is disabled on this device because an unsupported SFP module type was detected.

My main reason for choosing Openwrt is load balancing capability using mwan3 and macvlan. It appears OPNSense does not support macvlan hence multiple physical NICs would be required for load balancing. I'll have to figure out how to enable unsupported SFP in Openwrt before deciding to move over to OPNSense. Perhaps ESXi could easily, via vSwitch , provide multiple wan interfaces to OPNSense but I would have preferred WAN NIC passthrough to OPNSense, eliminating WAN vSwitch due to security reasons.

If I may ask, would you think it's safe to update AOC-STG-i4S fw, I had a bit of a struggle with the update process after creating a freeDOS/msDOS bootable USB drive using rufus and copying the files into the root of the USB drive.
Could you please confirm how you created your bootable USB drive?

 

[AWBbox]

Yes, Unsupported SFP error message is in the logs, I should have stated that earlier.


Wed Jul 26 21:57:47 2023 kern.info kernel: [ 6.781661] 8021q: adding VLAN 0 to HW filter on device eth3
Wed Jul 26 21:57:47 2023 kern.err kernel: [ 6.806717] i40e 0000:01:00.0: Rx/Tx is disabled on this device because an unsupported SFP module type was detected.

My main reason for choosing Openwrt is load balancing capability using mwan3 and macvlan. It appears OPNSense does not support macvlan hence multiple physical NICs would be required for load balancing. I'll have to figure out how to enable unsupported SFP in Openwrt before deciding to move over to OPNSense. Perhaps ESXi could easily, via vSwitch , provide multiple wan interfaces to OPNSense but I would have preferred WAN NIC passthrough to OPNSense, eliminating WAN vSwitch due to security reasons.

If I may ask, would you think it's safe to update AOC-STG-i4S fw, I had a bit of a struggle with the update process after creating a freeDOS/msDOS bootable USB drive using rufus and copying the files into the root of the USB drive.
Could you please confirm how you created your bootable USD drive?

You can try enabling unsupported SFPs in Openwrt but I suspect this will not be something that can be worked around by the operating system, you would likely have the same problem in OPNsense etc.

It's safe to update the firmware on the AOC-STG-i4S but this is unlikely to solve the incompatibility either, Supermicro confirmed to me already that they don't do anything on their side to permit/deny the use of any type of SFP. If you're attempting it by booting from a USB drive then I believe it's just UEFI. Format the drive as FAT32, move the files and folders onto it, disable secure boot and select the drive as the one to boot from. You shouldn't need to do anything with freeDOS etc.

Try enabling the use of incompatible SFPs, but if that doesn't work then I would just replace the SFP with the one I linked to earlier, it's cheap enough.

 

[john40406]

You can try enabling unsupported SFPs in Openwrt but I suspect this will not be something that can be worked around by the operating system, you would likely have the same problem in OPNsense etc.

It's safe to update the firmware on the AOC-STG-i4S but this is unlikely to solve the incompatibility either, Supermicro confirmed to me already that they don't do anything on their side to permit/deny the use of any type of SFP. If you're attempting it by booting from a USB drive then I believe it's just UEFI. Format the drive as FAT32, move the files and folders onto it, disable secure boot and select the drive as the one to boot from. You shouldn't need to do anything with freeDOS etc.

Try enabling the use of incompatible SFPs, but if that doesn't work then I would just replace the SFP with the one I linked to earlier, it's cheap enough.

Thanks a bunch comrade, your effort is greatly appreciated!

 

[thimplicity]

Hi everyone,
I have read through quite a bit of this thread, but still have some questions. Sorry if they have been answered, but I did not read all 57 pages . To provide some context: I have a homelab (one "big" server for now) incl NAS and would like to extend the setup with one or two mini-pcs as proxmox/kubernetes nodes. So we are talking about 3-4 VMs and maybe 20-30 containers. I will still run my NAS on the bigger server I have, so I do not need a lot of physical space for drives. My requirements are 10 GBe and two m.2 slots as well as expandability for RAM and drives (meaning not soldered). The Lenovo m90qs seem to tick all boxes and the reviews/experiences in this thread got me quite excited. My questions:

1. Are there any real (significant) differences in performance and energy consumption between (for my intent of use) M90q Gen 1 and Gen 2? I think Gen 3 is just unnecessary at this point.
2. Do all Gen 1 and Gen 2 hav the PCIe slot?
3. Which processor (65W or 35W) would you recommend for my use case (with some room to grow)? I am using a Intel Xeon E5-2640 v3 for my big homelab server (incl NAS) today and it idles most of the time. I am tending towards a 35W with 6C/12T.
4. Could I upgrade the CPU later if need be?
5. In case I buy a 35W CPU, will I also receive a smaller power supply that I might need to upgrade later?
6. Did I understand some comments in the thread correctly, that I can add an SSD in addition to the two m.2 drives?
7. What else could I use the m.2 AtoE key for, as I do not need Wi-Fi?

Thanks a lot!

 

[flobert]

Someone had a BIOS bin file for a M920q for flashing with a CH341? My lenovo is broken after a bios upgrade, only black screen.

 

[986box]

1. Could I upgrade the CPU later if need be?
2. In case I buy a 35W CPU, will I also receive a smaller power supply that I might need to upgrade later?
3. Did I understand some comments in the thread correctly, that I can add an SSD in addition to the two m.2 drives

Yes you can upgrade. I pop in a i5-9600k into my m920q while using 65W power supply.

for m90q, you can have 2xm.2 and ssd. Provided you have the bracket.

 

[legit]

Hi everyone,
I have read through quite a bit of this thread, but still have some questions. Sorry if they have been answered, but I did not read all 57 pages . To provide some context: I have a homelab (one "big" server for now) incl NAS and would like to extend the setup with one or two mini-pcs as proxmox/kubernetes nodes. So we are talking about 3-4 VMs and maybe 20-30 containers. I will still run my NAS on the bigger server I have, so I do not need a lot of physical space for drives. My requirements are 10 GBe and two m.2 slots as well as expandability for RAM and drives (meaning not soldered). The Lenovo m90qs seem to tick all boxes and the reviews/experiences in this thread got me quite excited. My questions:

1. Are there any real (significant) differences in performance and energy consumption between (for my intent of use) M90q Gen 1 and Gen 2? I think Gen 3 is just unnecessary at this point.
2. Do all Gen 1 and Gen 2 hav the PCIe slot?
3. Which processor (65W or 35W) would you recommend for my use case (with some room to grow)? I am using a Intel Xeon E5-2640 v3 for my big homelab server (incl NAS) today and it idles most of the time. I am tending towards a 35W with 6C/12T.
4. Could I upgrade the CPU later if need be?
5. In case I buy a 35W CPU, will I also receive a smaller power supply that I might need to upgrade later?
6. Did I understand some comments in the thread correctly, that I can add an SSD in addition to the two m.2 drives?
7. What else could I use the m.2 AtoE key for, as I do not need Wi-Fi?

Thanks a lot!

1. Not sure. I don't suspect much between like-for-like generations - 90q g1 = intel 10th gen, 90q g2 = intel 11th gen. for other options, that's also a thinkstation p340 and p350. like for like meaning, between a 10500t and an 11500t - they have the same TDP.
2. The first post specifies which models have the PCI-E slot - which summarized iirc is p330/340/350/360, m90Q 1/2/3, m720q, m920q/x.
3. Without clear understanding of workloads or intentionality, either? Most people tend to choose these things with the lower TDP procs in mind (and they tend to cost more on ebay compared to their non T version).
4. Yup, they're socketed. Note that If you start with a T processor that has an aluminum heatsink, you might need to upgrade to a copper heatsink associated with the non T processor.
5. Generally yes if you were buying new, on the second market you might run into all sorts of weird combinations. Also, if it comes with a GPU it may come with a more beefy power supply as well.
6. If you don't populate the PCI-E slot, yes. If you do want to use the SATA port and the pci-e slot, you may have to jury-rig something (see my posts using an mSATA drive)
7. 2.5g ethernet, can technically use it for a 2230 nvme drive (though at pci-e 1x speed and not for boot), a coral m.2 ai accelerator (one of the two on the dual edge version), etc.

 

[john40406]

You can try enabling unsupported SFPs in Openwrt but I suspect this will not be something that can be worked around by the operating system, you would likely have the same problem in OPNsense etc.

It's safe to update the firmware on the AOC-STG-i4S but this is unlikely to solve the incompatibility either, Supermicro confirmed to me already that they don't do anything on their side to permit/deny the use of any type of SFP. If you're attempting it by booting from a USB drive then I believe it's just UEFI. Format the drive as FAT32, move the files and folders onto it, disable secure boot and select the drive as the one to boot from. You shouldn't need to do anything with freeDOS etc.

Try enabling the use of incompatible SFPs, but if that doesn't work then I would just replace the SFP with the one I linked to earlier, it's cheap enough.

I've got good news to share: I updated the NIC fw version from 5.0.40043 to 9.20.71847 and powered up Openwrt on BareMetal. And I was very delighted to see my ISP SFP module negotiate and connect at 1000Mbps with the AOC-STG-i4S NIC.

To ensure it's not a dream, I've had to power cycle the system some 4 times and the NIC connects without any hiccups in all cases.

I'll like to thank you once again for the help and suggestion on this thread. The real project begins

 

[AWBbox]

I've got good news to share: I updated the NIC fw version from 5.0.40043 to 9.20.71847 and powered up Openwrt on BareMetal. And I was very delighted to see my ISP SFP module negotiate and connect at 1000Mbps with the AOC-STG-i4S NIC.

To ensure it's not a dream, I've had to power cycle the system some 4 times and the NIC connects without any hiccups in all cases.

I'll like to thank you once again for the help and suggestion on this thread. The real project begins

Heck yeah! That's great news! Good luck with the rest of the project

 

[dylanc]

7. 2.5g ethernet, can technically use it for a 2230 nvme drive (though at pci-e 1x speed and not for boot), a coral m.2 ai accelerator (one of the two on the dual edge version), etc.

I actually have been going through the process of getting my cluster of M70qs to boot their host off of a M.2 SSD in the E-Key Wi-Fi slot.

Since these lower end systems only have 1 M.2 & 1 SATA slot internally (without some crazy modding), I wanted to make use of both ports for larger drives in a Ceph cluster. My solution was to try and put Promox on an M.2 SSD in the E-Key slot since I won't be using Wi-Fi for these machines.

The quick overview is you can install your primary host OS (in my case Proxmox) on the M.2 drive in the E-Key slot, and then setting up a dummy boot drive on a USB drive which the system will actually boot to first, and then have that boot the host OS. I am using Clover myself with a timeout of 0, it requires me to select the OS to boot the first time, but then will boot by itself without any assistance (or any noticeable delay) after that. While it does add one additional point of failure & complexity, the USB will be much less likely to die than if you were actually using it for the host OS since it is receiving no (or very few) writes.

If anyone knows a better way let me know, but I could not find a way to directly boot the E-Key M.2 SSD after multiple hours of trying various things, this redirect boot has been the only thing to work consistently so far. Interestingly I found it would randomly boot off of the E-Key M.2 when PXE was enabled, it would sit for multiple minutes and then randomly swap to the E-Key M.2? I could not figure out why, it was not at all consistent.

 

[JayY]

Just wanted to note here for the following for VMware ESXi 8.0.1 build 21813344.

M920q i3-8500T
M720q i5-8600 (x2)

I was able to upgrade both of those models from The Lenovo 7.0.3u customized image to the Lenovo 8.0.1 customized image via USB. (Yes, like, legitimate upgrade via USB, not fresh install). I had to do it via USB because Lifecycle manager wouldn't load when I went to "MyClusterNameHere" > Updates > Hosts > Images; after I clicked "setup image" it just sat there on vCenter Server 8. So usb it was.

Just glad to be able to confirm here that M920q and M720q on 8th gen Intel processors are working for the latest and greatest ESXi.
New Fling USB-NIC driver for 8.0.1 is also working.

NOTE WHEN UPGRADING ESXI: You will have to uninstall the NIC USB Fling driver if you have it installed. Then upgrade from 7.0.3 to 8u1, then after upgrading, THEN install the new Fling driver.

 

[legit]

I actually have been going through the process of getting my cluster of M70qs to boot their host off of a M.2 SSD in the E-Key Wi-Fi slot.

Since these lower end systems only have 1 M.2 & 1 SATA slot internally (without some crazy modding), I wanted to make use of both ports for larger drives in a Ceph cluster. My solution was to try and put Promox on an M.2 SSD in the E-Key slot since I won't be using Wi-Fi for these machines.

The quick overview is you can install your primary host OS (in my case Proxmox) on the M.2 drive in the E-Key slot, and then setting up a dummy boot drive on a USB drive which the system will actually boot to first, and then have that boot the host OS. I am using Clover myself with a timeout of 0, it requires me to select the OS to boot the first time, but then will boot by itself without any assistance (or any noticeable delay) after that. While it does add one additional point of failure & complexity, the USB will be much less likely to die than if you were actually using it for the host OS since it is receiving no (or very few) writes.

If anyone knows a better way let me know, but I could not find a way to directly boot the E-Key M.2 SSD after multiple hours of trying various things, this redirect boot has been the only thing to work consistently so far. Interestingly I found it would randomly boot off of the E-Key M.2 when PXE was enabled, it would sit for multiple minutes and then randomly swap to the E-Key M.2? I could not figure out why, it was not at all consistent.

I made a similar discovery that if something could boot first, it'd still choose the 2230 drive to run the OS (in this case, I had installed proxmox twice - once to the 2230, and one to an mSATA drive - the mSATA drive booted to the 2230). Also discovered the PXE timeout option (as long as there are no other bootable devices nearby). Asked this on the official forums and I think what we discovered was a bug they'd prefer to patch...

P350 Tiny - non-standard use of the E-key Wireless card slot for fun and profit?

 

[Khaveer]

Was anyone able to get any kind of temperature monitoring in ESXi working on the Tinys? It would be awesome to have it show up with the web UI, but just the ability to log it to some metrics server is also fine for me.

 

[Lionkong]

Hello All,

I am a newbie here.
I'm going to buy the Thinkcentre M720q for using pfsense on virtual machine.

May I have your advice if the Chelsio CC2-N320E-SR SFP+ fit for the m720q with riser?

I am able to get the Chelsio CC2-N320E-SR for free and I installed it on my PC for testing.

After installed the driver the card work on Windows 11. But I checked the link speed is only 2147 Mbps and not 10Gbps?

The Chelsio CC2-N320E-SR came with 2 SFP+ modules.

Is there something wrong on the card? Or what do I need to do so that it can get 10Gb link speed on?

Please help on this!!!

 

[Spucke]

Hello, would a 4TB Nvme also work in a ThinkStation P350 tiny? The data sheet only mentions 2TB NVMe.
Thank you very much

 

[legit]

Hello, would a 4TB Nvme also work in a ThinkStation P350 tiny? The data sheet only mentions 2TB NVMe.
Thank you very much

I'm 99.999% sure it would work (even an 8TB). The data sheet only mentions options that Lenovo would sell the product with.

 

[Spucke]

Thanks for the info. I currently have 2 x 2TB installed and want to fit a 4TB Nvme. A great piece of technology these ThinkStation Tinys. I also find the description in this thread interesting, with the bios modification (to change the microcode) so that it is again possible to undervolt the CPU (in my case a 11900t). Don't really trust me yet, it reads pretty tricky.

 

[butchr]

Any suggestions on cooling M720Q tiny? I have temperature issues with my Opense router giving me Coretemp0 error.

 

[986box]

You can order the vented to cover from P330. Part no 02CW662. I ordered a Noctua usb fan which will be arriving tomorrow.

 

[butchr]

You can order the vented to cover from P330. Part no 02CW662. I ordered a Noctua usb fan which will be arriving tomorrow.

Okay. The vented cover seems like a good option for now. Tell me more about the Noctua usb fan? Will you be (or can you) mounting it on the cover or inside M720Q case?