I can only tell you about the m720q. But i have a a+e to m.2 adapter and it works fine. It's only pcie 3.0 x1 so don't expect miracles.
Lenovo Thinkcentre/ThinkStation Tiny (Project TinyMiniMicro) Reference Thread
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Thanks. Hopefully it also works on the M75q gen 2. What model of adapter do you have? There are also these flexible riser ones, which can be great for tight spots, but not sure if they are less reliant.
I have this one:
Running about 1.5 years now without issue.
Nice, I think it seems better than what I was looking at? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005443225566.html
I installed an M.2 A+E to 4 port SATA (ASM1064) recently and it had a 9cm cable from the M.2 A+E card to a daughter card containing the SATA ports. It was installed in a crowded mini-ITX case next to a dual port 10GbE network card and close to the Ryzen 5750G. It performed like pants - max of 40MB/s from a SATA SSD capable of 500MB/s+. I tried wrapping the outside of the cable with a couple of layers of kitchen aluminium foil and then a layer of insulated sticky tape to stop the magic smoke from escaping. That got the SSD throughput up to 100MB/s but that's still only 20% of the SSD.
Other than mine had a different daughter card on the end of the cable, it looks the same as your pictuire from aliE.
I got my money back from the Ebay seller and they told me they didn't want it back.
Very interesting, so the same (minus the daughter card) as the white one I posted? The daughter card can make or break it though.
I'd call that grey but, yes, identical cable and the kitchen foil "shielding" that I added definitely made it better than it was. Maybe with more layers (I only went round 1.5 times) or thicker foil or copper foil it might have improved more. At that point I had discovered that a half height riser card existed to convert a PCIe x16 socket to an x8 one plus 2 M.2 sockets so I just reported it as not working properly and moved on and am using one of those now.
I was using this in a Jonsbo N3 mini-ITX case and space is very tight so it might have been better in a larger more open case.
nice, can you share that half height riser card?
I don't have that much options on my m720q. I will put an arc a310 + 2 nvme, 1 in wifi slot. Same with the m75q gen2 + 1 sata drive minus the GPU.
This will give me total of 3 slots (2 pcie + 1 sata) on my m75q gen 2 and 2 slots for nvme on my m720q. I don't think I can find a m.2 a/e to 2 x nvme that will be make sense?
I was also looking at this listing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005010560235980.html
Basically it allows me to use a 2280 nvme in tight corners, without the riser cable. since the nvme will plug in the opposite way of how the m.2 a/e adapter plugs.
Let me know if you have any other ideas for more PCIe NVMe slots, for sata it would've been simpler, but I don't have that many sata drives laying around.
I don't have that much options on my m720q. I will put an arc a310 + 2 nvme, 1 in wifi slot. Same with the m75q gen2 + 1 sata drive minus the GPU.
This will give me total of 3 slots (2 pcie + 1 sata) on my m75q gen 2 and 2 slots for nvme on my m720q. I don't think I can find a m.2 a/e to 2 x nvme that will be make sense?
I was also looking at this listing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005010560235980.html
Basically it allows me to use a 2280 nvme in tight corners, without the riser cable. since the nvme will plug in the opposite way of how the m.2 a/e adapter plugs.
Let me know if you have any other ideas for more PCIe NVMe slots, for sata it would've been simpler, but I don't have that many sata drives laying around.
This is what I bought Denash PCIe 5.0 to Dual M.2 Adapter Card, PCIe NVMe Expansion Card with Bifurcation Design for M Key SSD Arrays, Supports 4.0 3.0, U.2 SFF 8639, 2230 to 22110 SSDs: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories and then I changed the full height bracket on the rear of my Solarflare dual port 10GbE network card for a low profile one to make it fit (it's a HH card). It's not quite right but it allowed me to add a M.2 to 5 port SATA adapter and cable up the other 4 bays on my NAS case.
I'm pretty sure it's the unshielded cable on those other devices that is the problem. If it was decently shielded or just not as long then it might be better. Or maybe a non ITX case wouldn't contain so much electromagnetic fog.
I'm pretty sure it's the unshielded cable on those other devices that is the problem. If it was decently shielded or just not as long then it might be better. Or maybe a non ITX case wouldn't contain so much electromagnetic fog.
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Perfect thanks. As for the shielding, I guess it's better to choose something that can directly plug into the PCB rather than extend it with a cable if that's an option.
Guys, one more thing. Is running an ARC A310 for AV1 encoding viable without rebar? Do you lose any performance on AV1 without it? And if so how hard is to get RebarUEFI running (which I believe also means that you can't do BIOS updates, unless you want to re-do the procedure).
My A310 is running without rebar, she transcodes at 250-300FPS, so I guess it's fine without it.
I plan on modding my BIOS to enable it in the future, want to save up for a second M720Q before doing so, so I don't end up without my little server if I mess up.
I plan on modding my BIOS to enable it in the future, want to save up for a second M720Q before doing so, so I don't end up without my little server if I mess up.
Can you expand on this? I'm very curious what rabbit hole you went down to learn this info?
Hello everyone, I'm looking for some volunteers who might want to test a theory on a Tiny8+ machine.
The boardview for the M90q Gen 3/P360 Tiny (NM-D581) recently became available, and after me and some others looked through it for a while we found out the possible cause of the issue where PCIe x4 and x1 cards don't work in the x16/x8 riser on these machines: Tiny8 riser pinout · Issue #1 · qq8322302/P3Tiny-PCIE-Card
Also discussing it here: https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-2-connector-and-much-more.52689/#post-503708
It turns out that Lenovo has activated lane reversal on the CPU's PCIe lanes for no good reason, which is causing the x8 link on the riser slot to be set up in reverse lane order. For most x8+ cards this seems to work fine as they have their own lane reversal support built in, but for example, if you install a x4 card this causes it to be connected to lanes 7-4 of the x8 link instead of 0-3, which doesn't work.
There are a few ways to address this:
- Remove the pulldown resistor on the CPU's CFG2 line from the motherboard.
- Mask the CFG2 pad on the CPU
- Build a riser that routes the PCIe lanes in reverse
I feel a bit iffy about designing a riser that connects the lanes in reverse, because:
1: There's at least one example of a x4 card working in the x16 riser: youtube.com/watch?v=W4wt1ioIkY4
So it's possible not all machines are affected by this and would instead manifest this issue with a riser wired in reverse.
2: Future machines using the same riser slot might not have the link configured in reverse
So far I've looked at available board images from Lenovo's parts catalog and all pictures I could find of M90q Gen 3, Gen 4 and Gen 5, as well as the P360 Tiny, P3 Tiny and Neo Ultra's boards have the strap resistors set to activate lane reversal, but not all FRUs have images available, so I can't be sure that definitely every board with the Tiny8 riser slot uses lane reversal. This is especially the case for the latest M90q Gen 6, P3 Tiny Gen 2 and Neo Ultra Gen 2 models because on that generation Intel switched to using firmware straps for setting lane reversal, so there's no way to tell visually.
In conclusion, since I don't have a Tiny8 riser slot machine to test with, I'm asking the community for 2 things.
If you own an M90q Gen 3, Gen 4, Gen5, a P360 Tiny a P3 Tiny (Gen 1) or a Neo Ultra (Gen 1),
1: Would you be willing to test if either removing the marked resistor here (invasive):
or masking this pad on the CPU (socket perspective in the picture, less invasive):
fixes compatibility with x4 and smaller cards when using the x16 riser?
2: If you don't wanna test an unverified mod on your machine, it would still be very helpful if you could take a picture of the CFG resistor area next to the CPU socket (the area in the resistor removal picture above), I'm hoping to collect pictures from as many different machines as possible to find if there are any outliers which might have them set differently than I've seen so far.
This information would both help people who want to use x4 and x1 cards in the original x16/x8 riser, and would also be very useful for me and other custom riser developers to choose how to proceed.
Thanks a lot in advance!
The boardview for the M90q Gen 3/P360 Tiny (NM-D581) recently became available, and after me and some others looked through it for a while we found out the possible cause of the issue where PCIe x4 and x1 cards don't work in the x16/x8 riser on these machines: Tiny8 riser pinout · Issue #1 · qq8322302/P3Tiny-PCIE-Card
Also discussing it here: https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-2-connector-and-much-more.52689/#post-503708
It turns out that Lenovo has activated lane reversal on the CPU's PCIe lanes for no good reason, which is causing the x8 link on the riser slot to be set up in reverse lane order. For most x8+ cards this seems to work fine as they have their own lane reversal support built in, but for example, if you install a x4 card this causes it to be connected to lanes 7-4 of the x8 link instead of 0-3, which doesn't work.
There are a few ways to address this:
- Remove the pulldown resistor on the CPU's CFG2 line from the motherboard.
- Mask the CFG2 pad on the CPU
- Build a riser that routes the PCIe lanes in reverse
I feel a bit iffy about designing a riser that connects the lanes in reverse, because:
1: There's at least one example of a x4 card working in the x16 riser: youtube.com/watch?v=W4wt1ioIkY4
So it's possible not all machines are affected by this and would instead manifest this issue with a riser wired in reverse.
2: Future machines using the same riser slot might not have the link configured in reverse
So far I've looked at available board images from Lenovo's parts catalog and all pictures I could find of M90q Gen 3, Gen 4 and Gen 5, as well as the P360 Tiny, P3 Tiny and Neo Ultra's boards have the strap resistors set to activate lane reversal, but not all FRUs have images available, so I can't be sure that definitely every board with the Tiny8 riser slot uses lane reversal. This is especially the case for the latest M90q Gen 6, P3 Tiny Gen 2 and Neo Ultra Gen 2 models because on that generation Intel switched to using firmware straps for setting lane reversal, so there's no way to tell visually.
In conclusion, since I don't have a Tiny8 riser slot machine to test with, I'm asking the community for 2 things.
If you own an M90q Gen 3, Gen 4, Gen5, a P360 Tiny a P3 Tiny (Gen 1) or a Neo Ultra (Gen 1),
1: Would you be willing to test if either removing the marked resistor here (invasive):
or masking this pad on the CPU (socket perspective in the picture, less invasive):
fixes compatibility with x4 and smaller cards when using the x16 riser?
2: If you don't wanna test an unverified mod on your machine, it would still be very helpful if you could take a picture of the CFG resistor area next to the CPU socket (the area in the resistor removal picture above), I'm hoping to collect pictures from as many different machines as possible to find if there are any outliers which might have them set differently than I've seen so far.
This information would both help people who want to use x4 and x1 cards in the original x16/x8 riser, and would also be very useful for me and other custom riser developers to choose how to proceed.
Thanks a lot in advance!
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New to posting, but have been following this work for some time.
I tested this on my P360 today by masking the prescribed CPU pin with a small piece of Scotch-like tape.
I can confirm that I was able to get an x8 network card (IBM 00E2719 2x10g SFP+ and 2x1g RJ45) to appear in Proxmox using the PCIe x16 riser (FRU: 5C50W00910) which would previously only work in the x4 riser (FRU: 5C50W00909) with the end cut out.
Mainboard IQ6X0IL1 Rev 1.0 (who puts a capital i in a product code?!?)
If only I hadn't bought two more of the x4 risers as I'm planning a cluster...
I can provide pictures later, if still relevant, but wanted to get the initial word that this does seem to work.
That's awesome news! Thanks for trying it and reporting back!
I guess that x8 network card you have is one of the relatively rare x8 cards that can't do lane reversal lol.
A picture of the masked pin on the bottom of the CPU would be nice for reference for others, if you don't mind.
Anyway this is great, good to know this really is the source of the problem! Would you say this is a difficult mod to do? Or is it like, not a big deal.
Also for future reference, if you want to specifiy which motherboard you have, the IQ6X0IL1 type code isn't super useful, rather the NM-xxxx code (and the Rev, if it's not 1.0) is the most unique identifier for these tiny boards. I would guess yours says NM-D581 since it's a P360 Tiny.
Oops, it looks like I was too hasty to celebrate and was only looking at my network bridges instead of the actual network devices.
lspci did not show the device, nor did the original Nvidia card show up with the masked pin.
I did do a continuity check with the pin and confirm it does connect to the resistor you also point out.
This is indeed a NM-D581 board (Rev 1.0 still as mentioned above) as you theorized.
However, since the Nvidia card did not show up, even after removing my tape mask, it did get me thinking. I do have a two other systems of this configuration that I will experiment with in the event my software shenanigans have messed with something elsewhere in the line.
Sorry to have gotten the hopes up. Will report back if I find anything more definitive.
Oh, well that's strange then. Your Nvidia card also doesn't show up? And it also stopped showing up in the unmodified state? I feel like that would need some more looking into... Could be unrelated to this. Maybe something with the internal/discrete graphics option in the BIOS?
wait so lemme understand this correctly - i have a p3 tiny gen 1 and previously i couldn't get any output signal fr an LP RX 6400 (pcie x4) but managed to get a Radeon wx 3200 (pcie x8) to work
I can just... cover the specified pad on my CPU with a piece of tape and potentially 'undo' lane reversal, which essentially prevents me from using anything other than pcie x8 or x16? I might give this a try if I can find some time this wknd