Lenovo Thinkcentre/ThinkStation Tiny (Project TinyMiniMicro) Reference Thread

[cromo]

Tiny4 has 2 different 12V regulators, one for the fan/other system stuff and one for the PCIe slot. Since the M710q board doesn't have the PCIe slot populated it only has the 12V regulator for the fan which is only rated for 1A continuous.
If it had been an M910x or P320 which does have the PCIe slot then it would've also had a 5.5A rated 12V regulator populated.
So sadly I don't think you're gonna be able to power 4 3.5" hard drives off of an M710q.

Thanks, I guess I will resort to m910x, then.

 

[SorenDecay]

PCIe slot, riser, and add-in cards :
The biggest differentiator for the Lenovo Tiny vs other Project TMM machines is that it has the ability to accommodate one half height, up to x16 PCIe card, although note the slot itself is x8. The slot on the board is not standard PCIe, you require a proprietary Lenovo riser card to make it usable and you need the right riser for your Tiny model. Also please note not all Tinys have the slot, refer to the table above for which models do.

• You can install most x1/x2/x4/x8/x16 PCIe cards as long as they are half height and shorter than 150mm (M720q and M920q) or 167mm (M90q and later), but bear in mind there is no direct airflow around the card and little space, so avoid anything too hot.
• Please note the PCIe slot's bandwidth limitations for the different series (thanks to @cadillac ).
• Note that if you are having issues with the system seeing or properly recognising your PCIe card, you can try this fix (no soldering required). Thanks @cromo !
• The slot does not natively support bifurcation, but a small modification involving soldering a resistor onto the board may work to allow x4/x4. See here for example.

Riser cards.​

Remember the slot is really PCIe x8. Make sure you use the correct riser for your Tiny model; if you don't, powering on will fry the motherboard.​

​

Tiny series	Speed	FRU	Notes
Tiny5 (eg Mx20q, etc)	x4	01AJ929
	x8	01AJ902	Can have issues, avoid. *
	x16 (electrical x8)	01AJ940
Tiny6, Tiny7 (eg M90q Gen 1, Gen 2)	x4	5C50W00876
	x16 (electrical x8)	5C50W00877
Tiny8 (eg M90q Gen 3)	x4	5C50W00909
	x16 (electrical x8)	5C50W00910	Might not work with older PCIe cards but may have a workaround **

* We have reports of problems with PCIe card detection and speed with the 01AJ902 (x8) riser so I would recommend you avoid it and use 01AJ940 instead.
** Thanks @Vorwrath for this important information.

Baffle/rear bracket. ​

Note that the PCIe card bracket at the rear, which Lenovo calls a baffle, is proprietary. A baffle exists for the Intel i350-T4 four port NIC, the Intel i350-T2 two port NIC (5M10U50349 for the Mx20q - thanks @snowylake), and the Lenovo Thunderbolt card (see below) only, and nothing else that I have seen. If you are installing anything else you will therefore need to work out how to support it physically in the case without its rear bracket or somehow use/adapt the baffles that do exist, or print them.​

• Please note that the baffles for the Mx20q and prior are different from those for the M90q and later. You must buy the right baffle or make sure the one you receive in the FRU is correct for your Tiny.
• M720q/920q style baffle has a larger and more square attachment on the left, the M90q and later style baffle has a curved, round lug bottom left instead. See third page of the thread for photos.
• If you have a 10GbE card, there is a thread on Reddit where a kind user has several baffles they will 3D print for you on demand for $5 (!) each plus shipping. Thanks to @adman_c he will now also do Tiny6 baffles for the SuperMicro AOC-STGN-i2s and the Mellanox CX311A. I bought some myself, the service was very prompt indeed (I'm in the UK) and the quality excellent. I have included some photos of my build in the thread.
• Here is a Tiny5 Thingiverse model for a AOC-STGN-I2S, with and without SATA cable passthrough.

PCIe add-in cards : 4x 1GbE, 4x 2.5GbE, 1x 10GbE, 2x 10GbE and Thunderbolt.​

• 10GbE cards that are less than the maximum size (see above) should fit, but heat could be an issue on cards with more than two ports.
  • @cptcrunch gives some great photos below on adding a 2x 10GbE Intel X-520 NIC to an M720q but note this will require the metal support on the card to be cut.
  • According to the specification sheet, Mellanox MCX311A, MCX312A/B, MCX313A, and MCX314A cards will fit but I have not tried them myself.
  • The Mellanox ConnectX-3 CX322A dual SFP+ card has been confirmed working on Reddit without significant effect on the heat. The user notes that it does not work with pfSense out of the box but is fine if virtualised from Proxmox.
  • The Supermicro AOC-STG-I2T does not work - fan gets caught on chassis lid.
  • The Supermicro AOC-STGN-I2S v1 and v2 do work and use the same chipset as the Intel X-520. Also works natively in pfSense.
  • For the baffle for 10GbE cards, please see the "Baffle/rear bracket" section above.
• You can add a Lenovo Thunderbolt PCIe card which has the FRU 01AJ968 for M720q/M920q, which should come with a baffle to fit the Tiny. There's also a DP loopback cable and GPIO control cable that would be required as well and seem to be included in the FRU.
  • Also please note that anecdotally you must use only the x4 PCIe riser (01AJ929) when adding specifically the Thunderbolt card, since the x8 and x16 risers stop this particular card working (other cards have no reported issues).
  • Note you can use the Thunderbolt port to attach external 10GbE/SFP+ adaptors.
  • There are also configurations for Thunderbolt 3 on later Tinys - M90q Gen 2 and later get Thunderbolt 4 - but I can't find the parts for sale anywhere.
• You can also add an Ethernet card to the m.2/miniPCIe wireless slot, thanks @joeribl for this! They used this kit from AliExpress which uses an Intel i210 and thus is recognised natively in vSphere 7. There are also 2.5GbE cards starting to appear (as of January 2023) but so far these only use Realtek chipsets. Remember you need an A/E key card, the far more common B/M key cards will not work in this slot.

(completely unrelated parts of the origional quote has been omitted)

Hi all.
I recently jumped into this adventure and is trying to putting things together and would like your input to check if my findings are correct.

Case: Adding dual 10g SFP+ to my Lenovo M720q, which is supposed to run Proxmox (this specific model: Lenovo site for the specific model, it was bought second hand, but it seems quite unlikely that anything have been altered on it since it was shipped from the factory. So far I haven't come across a way to verify the specifics, even though I'm sure there is a way, I just haven't found out how yet). I'm trying to avoid RJ-45 interfaces due to heating internally, however I haven't landed on if I will use DAC cables (due to ultra short distance) or SFP+ to RJ-45 (still 10g speed) adapters. Currently it is intended for at least one of the ports to go straight into a storage device, but due to compatability with cards on that, I haven't landed on a PCI(e) card for that yet, which is why I'm heading for both should be SFP+, even though I may end up converting it, then it will still be future proof once I eventually end up expanding in the future.

As far as I understood:

1. I need the proprietary riser. Since my unit as far as I know is the Tiny5 and x8, then the table says "01AJ902". However since it comes with a warning and is adviced to go for the x16 instead, I should then see if I can track down the "01AJ940". Am I right on this, or am I wrong already?
2. I've seen warnings that having dual 10g SFP+ NICs comes with heating risks. While I haven't picked the specific PCIe card yet, I am taking this into consideration. I've also seen others adding small fans and cutting ventilation holes to either deal with or prevent heating buildup in the first place, which I'm open to do as well.
3. Since I haven't picked the actual dual 10g SFP+ NIC yet, I'm also interested in perhaps going with the Thunderbolt route and then connect the dual 10g SFP+ NIC PCI(e) card externally. However I suspect the PCI(e) version and generation may be too old for that to be possible. But it would open up to several advantages, like bifurcation (the hack, since it isn't natively supported, only if it still allows for the dual 10g SFP+ NIC), many more options for picking a dual 10g SFP+ NIC PCI(e) card (and cooling solutions for it as well).
4. I'm aware that some PCI(e) cards may only fit if cutting some parts of either the PCI card and/or the pc case. Likewise that the bracket/"baffle" that is shipped with the PCI(e) card may not fit at all. In that case I can get a bracket/baffle 3d printed or manufactored if I either can find or create a fitting 3d model for a working bracket/baffle.
5. These are some of the dual 10g SFP+ NIC PCI(e) cards that I have been considering (random order):
   1. "Intel X-520" (I have found some named "Intel X-520-DA2", which as I get is due to the SFP+ interfaces rather than T-BASE (RJ-45) interfaces. Heat maybe an unknown factor with this (since it is dual and not single NIC), and it is known that I should expect to be doing some cutting/3d modeling and printing to get at working bracket/baffle. Sadly they are a bit pricy in my region, but not much to do about that. Buying outside my reagion may apply ridiculous tarrifs, taxes, and multiple fees if Ido find one that seem to have a fair price.
   2. "Mellanox ConnectX-3 CX322A" seems to be perfect for my case. Heat should be fine as is and the issues with pfsense doesn't apply to mesince the pc would be running Proxmox anyways. Supply and pricing is a bit difficult at the moment, but I'm still trying to source a trusty and legit seller or reseller.
   3. "Supermicro AOC-STGN-I2S" (version 1 & 2), heat is unknown, the pfsense thing is not a factor, but both versions seems to be hard to find from a trysty and legit seller or reseller for me at this moment, price is therefore also relatively unknown.
   4. If Thunderbolt where to be an option (or perhaps just an PCI(e) extention cable to outside the pc case and then do something there), then it opens up many more possibilities of dual 10g SFP+ NIC PCI(e) cards, however, since I haven't been able to confirm that route yet, then I haven't looked further into that, but it would be quite a price difference, compared to what I have looked into.

Thanks for all your help in advance, have a nice day.

Regards

 

[phol]

@SorenDecay According to what I read online, the X520 / ConnectX3 can indeed be quite power hungry and therefore be prone to overheating in an M720q without proper airflow. The Supermicro card you're referencing seems to be X710 based. I'm personally using a M720q with X710-DA4 and an X710-DA2 and can report that the systems have been running stable for well over a year now. A further advantage of the X710 is that it supports ASPM, with the other cards do not, further reducing system power consumption. If going the X710 route, don't forget to unlock it to run modules not on the Intel QVL list using this utility. The tool worked on both a Dell-branded X710-DA2 and an Intel branded X710-DA4. I'm using the cards with the 01AJ940.

 

[SorenDecay]

@phol That is very useful information. But how have you managed to get the X710-DA2 to fit in the M720q. All X710-DA2 I've been able to find is either larger than the 150mm max stated in this thread or unspecified (but looks like more than 150mm)? Have you found some specific ones or where you just lucky to find some?

 

[backf1sh]

@phol @SorenDecay
Good discussion. I have the same question actually. Currently running Mellanox ConnectX-4 LX in two M920q but they run quite hot and power consumption in idle is rather high. I do have two Intel X710-DA2 cards at hand, but I wonder how I could fit them in...
Would you mind sharing a picture of your installation?

 

[phol]

@SorenDecay @backf1sh you'll need to remove the front WiFi antenna and the bracket holding the antenna (both are easily removable, IIRC they just unclip).
I personally also replaced the WiFi m.2 slot with an RTL8125BG routed out the back, but if you want to keep using the included WiFi module, you can still use the secondary external antenna (connection located at the back in lower left corner). The X710-DA4 card I'm using is close to 17,5cm and fits easily this way.




EDIT: To add to this, if you have a low-profile bracket and bend it a little (don't do this with the PCB still attached), the original bracket will fit nicely and the card will be securely retained once you put the cover back on by the ridge that's on it. Below is a picture of one of my installs, unfortunately I don't have acess to take a better picture right now.

 

[SorenDecay]

@phol It looks like the X710-DA4 isn't fit in there?

• Is it the right bracket or full profile?
• Can you put on the lid?
  • If so, when you mentioned temperatures previously, was that wit lid on during operation?
• Can you share more pictures of the sides and different angles as well.

 

[phol]

@SorenDecay the sizes of my X710-DA2 and DA4 PCB's are identical and they fit perfectly with the WiFi antenna bracket removed. I unfortunately don't have access to the M720q with the low-profile bracket right now as it is in production at another location, but as you can see in the lower picture my X710-DA2 fits perfectly with the lid on with the PCIe bracket secured in place by the lid.

The first picture I posted is of a defective X710-DA4 card with a high profile bracket, just to demonstrate that the PCB fits with about 1cm to spare on the right side. Unfortunately with that high profile bracket, I cannot demonstrate it with the cover on as I haven't bent the bottom of that bracket outwards so it will slide over the M720q housing. In addition, the bracket is in the way of the bolt hole used to secure the cover.

The M720q with the X710-DA4 which I cannot access right now functions as a router. It has been in use for over a year.
I haven't recorded temperature data, but a X710-DA2 with a Zaram ZXOS11NPI XGS-PON SFP+ module together with a BiDi module reported temperatures of around 50-60C, depending on load and ambient temperature. Right now, ambient is around 26C and the Zaram module reports 52C.

 

[backf1sh]

Perfect @phol Thanks for all that information!

 

[sassySasquatch556]

I have a Lenovo P360 Tiny, what’s the maximum amount of RAM I can put in?

According to data sheet the max is 64GB (2x 32GB SODIMM)

Has anyone had success putting in larger modules such as 2x48GB or 2x64GB to achieve 96GB or 128GB total memory?

People have reported here that they managed 2x64GB in the Lenovo P3 Tiny which is more than what its data sheet stipulates, so I wonder if the P360 Tiny can be pushed to do something similar.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[dionua]

@sassySasquatch556 2x48GB will not work on P360 Tiny. I tried it myself with two different sets of Crucial modules. And one of them was known to be fully working. I think I posted somewhere in this forum. System will just beep. And if you use something like 16GB + 48GB RAM it'll boot but will completely ignore that 48GB module

Not tried 2x64GB because 64GB modules were not available at that time. Make sure you can return it back if it doesn't work.

 

[besseddrest]

Update - system is now up and running perfectly fine. I swapped to another 135w power supply and it booted first time. Seems like the first one I tried isn't capable of supplying the full 135w for some reason.

No resizable bar/above 4g decode yet, but I'm hoping to solve that problem either by messing about with the methods suggested by the Arch wiki or BIOS tinkering. Seems as if the Arc A40 is another viable option for the P330 (probably newer ones too). Not bad for £179.View attachment 41814

I've also got 120hz working at native 4k since this was taken, will swap in the 64GB memory modules and see if I can solve the ReBar problem later in the week. Both GPUs are recognised and appear to work, I'm guessing that's a function of both of them being on an intel driver. I may disable the iGPU, but haven't decided yet. No evidence of thermal throttling yet, the i7 is quite happily chugging away and the A40 boost clock is higher than advertised.

i'm slowly putting together a p3 tiny (gen 1) from cheaper parts as I find them on ebay - this GPU caught my eye. I actually know nothing about discrete GPU as I've used iGPU almost all my life, never really played games either.

Though I would eventually like to play some, but i also want to see how a GPU might benefit me elsewhere. I'm a software engineer, and I just want a fast computer always. I have rather light usage of AI.

So yeah honestly I like this A40 because it just looks slick lol.If anythingI've been looking for a card w at least 6GB in case i was gonna ever try games. Planning to pair with i5-13500T - on paper it seems to be good price point for solid performance.

I don't quite understant ReBar - I'm slowly getting better at learning systems level stuff but anything GPU related is new, could you ELI5? If anythingI feel like putting a workstation GPU workstation machine is just the appropriate thing to do.

I've also considered the ETA prime method of getting an ArcA380 and replacing the cooler with A310 shroud, but honestly the buying/selling approach is kinda annoying

Side note is i actually found an RX 6400LP for the meantime, at a price that appears to be a killer deal at $109. going to run Arch Linux, prob start w 32gbDDR5 - 4800 is the max for the CPU

 

[cromo]

If someone is looking for an information on how to solder a SATA power cable to power 3.5" HDDs with 910x/920x, see this post for details:
https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/1bnqirt

 

[inigomontoya]

Just picked up a nice M90q Tiny Gen 5. I assumed it was basically the same as Gen 3 but I'm getting conflicting info on whether the 2.5" caddy kit will work with the gen5. Anyone know?

Alternatively, if not, I thought of getting the pci riser + nvme pcie card to cram some more storage in there (I do not need a GPU, at least nothing I could fit in the 1L size). Has anyone done this?

 

[vibe]

Hi all, had a question for you guys. Bought a few m720q with the intent to put in a connectx-3 nic with the riser.

I put in the 01AJ940 riser I got off of ebay but it feels like it's not able to fully be seated into the pcie slot because the plastic clip circled below comes in contact with a clear plastic bracket that partly covers the wifi card underneath.

I think it technically is seated but it's pretty tight underneath so wanted to ask the subject matter experts here if that's normal/expected.

Thanks!

 

[totalfrequency]

@besseddrest Where did you find an rx6400 LP for $109?

 

[totalfrequency]

Anyone know if these board will accept ES or QS chips? I'm eyeing an i9-9900t upgrade for a p340 and am willing to roll the dice on the chip if the bios will recognize it.

 

[Fashim]

Hey all! Been awhile since I've posted here, wanted to share some updates on my M720Q build that I think might be helpful.

Specs: Intel CC-150 @ 3.5Ghz, 32GB 2400Mhz RAM, RTX 3050 LP 6GB. OS: CachyOS with custom compiled bore-lto kernel

I haven't made the fan bypass mod yet, but I was able to successfully crash the computer by running the CPU fan at 100% and stress testing with phoronix-test-suite. The GPU suffered a loss of wattage shortly before the crash.

So far I have been largely tinkering with the UEFI/BIOS settings to tune system performance so here are some updates:

1. I was able to patch the BIOS with ReBarUEFI to enable resizable bar. (No secondary patching/DSDT patching required)
2. Applying some of these tweaks, particularly the PCIe & ASPM ones improved my glmark2 score by about ~50%
3. The CC-150 runs at 65W through PL1 settings, I haven't been able to thermally throttle it with the 65W Heatsink and 100% fan speed so it suits this build very well.
4. I have been able to surpass all the benchmarks on cpubenchmark.net for the CC-150 with a highest score (so far) of 15,535.

I'm currently overclocking/tuning the RAM profile and Uncore/Ring settings. After that my attention is on the GPU since it's the bottleneck of the system now. I'd like to bypass the GPU fan power too but my current circuit design is only for the CPU Fan. I'll have to do some envelope math to see if that's worth the performance increase.

 

[fabz_]

Hi,

Wondering if anyone could have some insight into helping me with this network card installation.

System Setup:

1. M720 System
2. WIFI Card Removed
3. NVME installed the machine
4. 9500T system
5. Default 65W power brick

New Items:

1. BA7H70 REV: 1.2 Riser card (x16)
2. X710-DA2

Problem:
I am experiencing an issue where when I try to plug in a X710-DA2 into my riser then the M720Q, the machine will not reach the BIOS screen no matter how much time is given.

Troubleshooting steps:

1. Updated the BIOS
2. Tried the X710-DA2 with and without any SFP+ modules connected to it
3. Tried a different X710-DA2 and different riser.
4. Tried the riser with a Dell PERC H200 (This causes a successful full boot, which I feel rules out the riser cards themselves)
5. Forcing the PCI express mode in BIOS.
6. If the left module is populated, I get an LED indication from both the card and the switch it is connected too. No IP address is given. The right slot does not light up at all if used. Still can't boot past BIOS with this.

Kind of lost on what steps to take next here. Reading through the forum, people run into a variety of issues at different steps. But not to the point of not being able to post. Some help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT
--------

1. Tried CMOS reset to no avail.

Thanks

Hello everyone!

This forum convinced me to invest in these mini machines! I acquired 2 m720Q (10T8) and made some hardware improvements (32 GB of RAM, 9700T CPU).

I recently opted for a 10 Gb Dell X710-DA2 card for less heat compared to my previous X520.

The riser I obtained is the recommended reference on the first page via Ebay.

Only, like @Phycoforce, cold starts pose a problem. There is no sign of life apart from the power diodes and a USB fan.

I tried several configurations in the BIOS, updates to the motherboard and the Dell card without cross-flashing, but the computer only starts under the following conditions:
Functional CMOS battery + power adapter unplugged and press the power button for at least 20 seconds. Next, plug in the power adapter and turn on the machine.

Thru my investigations, I noticed that several versions of the riser, all under the reference 01AJ940, appear differently:
Retention of the white or black PCIe connector, presence of the sticker bearing the serial number and the mention "made in China" as well as other versions with different inscriptions but which seem to be functional according to the blog below (Building a dual 10 Gbit + 2.5G + 1G router with Debian and a Lenovo M720q | Pieter Hollander)

So I'm looking for a lead to acquire the correct riser since I have the one with the black tip: would the original Lenovo part have an impact? Would the 8x version (01AJ902) be preferable?

Thank you in advance for your help, that's all I need to proceed with the software installation.

 

[Fashim]

@Squoblat @besseddrest

To get ReBar working on an M720Q I did:

1. Enable the hidden Advanced menu [Advanced>Advanced] using this guide, also enable [Devices>Chipset]
2. Go to [Devices > Chipset > System Agent (SA) Conf > Graphics Configuration ], Set Aperture Size to 2048MB
   From the BIOS: "Note : Above 4GB MMIO BIOS assignment is automatically enabled when selecting 2048MB aperture."
3. Save the BIOS Settings, make sure the computer boots fine then power down the machine and dump the BIOS ROM again using the same guide as before.
4. Download the ReBarDxe.ffs file from the github release, and UEFITool (Non-NE 0.28) which is in the ReBar guide
   !! UEFITool has to be this version, newer versions prevent modifications to the ROM.
5. The GUID Header search from the ReBar guide worked for me, scroll down to the bottom of the volume and insert the .ffs file
6. (Optional) Apply other patches listed in the ReBar Guide, these weren't necessary for me. Nor DSDT patching.
7. Save the ROM and write it back onto the motherboard.
8. (For Linux) Compile the ReBarState program using cmake
9. Run ReBarState and select appropriate config.