Lenovo Thinkcentre/ThinkStation Tiny (Project TinyMiniMicro) Reference Thread

[cromo]

Hi all,

I just attempted to flash my BIOS of my Lenovo P360 Tiny. I had a power outage, and now the computer won't even turn itself back on. I unplugged everything, and plugged the power back, but the power indicator is blinking (then blinks faster) - without it even turning itself fully on.

I am guessing this is a failed BIOS update. How do I save it?

Edit: I don't seem to have the serial number sticker on the machine, is there another sticker on the mobo?

I am guessing the firmware updater made a backup of the flash — if so, I am guessing it would be saved in the EFI partition or on the USB flash drive, depending on what you used to flash it. If it is there, then you need ch341a programmer and it's a quick fix to flash it back.

 

[chaperone5986]

I'm not sure if it has improved for the more recent gens, but I remember reading reports of some older Tinys (P320 or P330) crashing when the Yeston 3050 is running intensively. The problem is the 3050 is trying to pull the full 75W from the PCIE slot, but the motherboard itself wasn't adequate for that amount. They resolved it through undervolting and/or power limiting it.

On the PSREF the T1000 is the highest end card officially supported by the P360, and that only uses 50W. So maybe start off with capping it to 65W, and if it still crashes then keep going lower towards 50W.

Update on this: initially limiting power usage to 62W seemed to work, but ultimately the issue seemed to strangely be VRAM related: limiting the VRAM boost clock speed from 7001MHz (default) to 5001MHz reliably fixed the issue. The card was even able to sustain a steady 70W load without crashing after nvidia-smi --lock-memory-clocks=0,5001. Not sure if this is a driver or card issue.

 

[sw1]

Bit of a chicken and egg thing. The first post not mentioning the m910x at all made me completely unaware that there were even cheaper devices around with a PCIE-riser. Until now. But pre-coffee-lake stuff *is* getting a bit old now.






First and foremost, I'd like to thank you for curating all this info. It is very, very much appreciated.

If (!) you want input about how to improve the first post, I'd suggest :

Move the content to a github repo. A simple markdown file may allow for simpler contribution to content and 'curation'. Much easier to just edit the markdown and submit a PR on github.

'tablifying' the PCIe-cards- what cards fits (and what device they do fit in) and add in specific card models, dimensions, power consumption numbers and ASPM capabilitites. Links to firmware upgrades (files and procedures).

Also, there are now designs for at least three different non-Lenovo risers, with various benefits. Links to github repos and tindie pages.

I think having all of this info in a single page is better than split up.

Good idea had the same.
Maybe we can use it together with the repo from a little WiFi?

GitHub - a-little-wifi/TinySecrets: Technical information about small 1L Lenovo, Dell, HP and Acer PCs

Technical information about small 1L Lenovo, Dell, HP and Acer PCs - a-little-wifi/TinySecrets

github.com

I really like this idea, something like those "awesome" lists that can be found on GitHub. Of course, here we're talking something a little more detailed and not so much as just a list, but the idea of having Github host it sounds great (traceability, pull requests, readability, etc.).

For instance, I bought the cheap riser because I had no idea custom risers existed. I also bought an Intel 4 x 1GbE card because I wasn't sure which 10GbE cards not only fit but offer good compatibility with Proxmox. I also only recently found about 3D prints for things like a 2 or 4 bay NAS. Had there been a GitHub repo, whenever someone finds something new, a PR can be created and then discussed further to add notes, changes or even mention that it's not recommended, etc., and then everyone would be able to easily access it, know exactly where to look for, etc.

 

[ndklabs]

Guys, does anyone have the BIOS or a link to download the BIOS for the NEC MC-4? I have a pair of Team Group RAM sticks, but only one stick works in slot 2 on this machine. However, when I swap in a pair of Samsung RAM, everything works fine. The Team Group pair was tested on an M920X and worked normally there.

 

[cromo]

Guys, does anyone have the BIOS or a link to download the BIOS for the NEC MC-4? I have a pair of Team Group RAM sticks, but only one stick works in slot 2 on this machine. However, when I swap in a pair of Samsung RAM, everything works fine. The Team Group pair was tested on an M920X and worked normally there.

It's the same BIOS: whether or not system shows as NEC or Lenovo is decided by the resistors on the mainboard. So it's unlikely those sticks would work in Lenovo setup, considering it's the same BIOS — it even has both BIOS logos embedded.

 

[ndklabs]

It's the same BIOS: whether or not system shows as NEC or Lenovo is decided by the resistors on the mainboard. So it's unlikely those sticks would work in Lenovo setup, considering it's the same BIOS — it even has both BIOS logos embedded.

I just asked the seller, and he said I can use the same BIOS as the M720Q. I also checked the BIOS for the M720 and found that the M720Q/T and M920Q/X all use the same BIOS.
After flashing the latest version, the issue still persists: the system fails when I install two sticks or even one stick in the DIMM 1 slot. However, it works fine with Samsung sticks or single Team Groups stick on DIMM 2 slot (tested each Team Groups stick on DIMM2 slot - worked).
Interestingly, with the same BIOS version, the Team Group sticks work without issues on the M920X. :'(

P/S: DIMM 1 install Samsugn stick and DIMM 2 install Team Groups stick -> not working...

 

[BaT420]

I am trying to add a Intel I350-T4 PCI Express x4 Quad Port Low Profile Ethernet Card to a m910x tiny, does anyone know if a lenovo m920x bracket fit on m910x tiny?

Ebay has more of those style brackets listed with risers. Some of the listings say m910x, m920x but others do not.
(ex
Lenovo ThinkCentre M920q M920x M910x M720q P330 Tiny5 PCIE16 Riser Card 01AJ940
Lenovo ThinkCentre M920q M920x M910x M720q P330 Tiny5 PCIE16 Riser Card 01AJ940 | eBay )

Easiest is to make your own for free. Take the existing plate out take out the vga and serial ports and cut between the 2 ports then use a file to make the slot slightly taller and wider then bend down the left most tab on the inside to hold the left side of the 4 port cage on the nic. I did this to 4 machines at work and have them all in production with 0 issues and like 50-100 bucks saved for a piece of tin. card is locked in by the tab from the case and can't come out of the slot. I covered the back of the card with capton tape incase it sags and touches the board.

 

[sw1]

What are the options to get a custom riser these days?

I saw the ones on @WifiCable's GitHub repo but the only ones that seems to be on sale are the ones from a chinese guy selling on Taobao but buying through Superbuy the prices go up significantly

 

[Jalo_palo]

I am guessing the firmware updater made a backup of the flash — if so, I am guessing it would be saved in the EFI partition or on the USB flash drive, depending on what you used to flash it. If it is there, then you need ch341a programmer and it's a quick fix to flash it back.

I used the Windows method to update, not through USB. I am not sure if it made a backup of the flash - can I not flash the bios downloaded directly from the Lenovo website using ch341a?

 

[cntrdctn86]

Wandered through half the of pages in this thread, and also searched "SAS" but didn't find anything... Has anyone had one of those m.2 to 2x mini sas adapters actually work in a m90q gen1? My system refuses to post with it installed, but it works in an 8th gen NUC just fine so I know it's not broken.

 

[cromo]

I used the Windows method to update, not through USB. I am not sure if it made a backup of the flash - can I not flash the bios downloaded directly from the Lenovo website using ch341a?

There are parts of the BIOS that contain device-specific details, like S/N, NIC MAC address, etc. You'd have to confirm that flashing a complete flash from the firmware upgrade package wouldn't overwrite them — their firmware software might only be updating specific sections of flash rom. flashrom README — flashrom v1.6.0-devel (git:v1.5.0-50-ged47c871) documentation is probably best source to find answers to your questions.

 

[sw1]

What are the options to get a custom riser these days?

I saw the ones on @WifiCable's GitHub repo but the only ones that seems to be on sale are the ones from a chinese guy selling on Taobao but buying through Superbuy the prices go up significantly

Any help? Please?

 

[cromo]

Any help? Please?

Orders from EU · Issue #11 · j4cbo/tiny5-m2-riser

Hi, are there any plans to make them available from Europe?

github.com

 

[sw1]

Orders from EU · Issue #11 · j4cbo/tiny5-m2-riser

Hi, are there any plans to make them available from Europe?

github.com

Thank you, I did the math and since I don't live in the EU it'd be really expensive (about the same amount of money I paid for the M920q itself)

I also found this on that same repo where the author explains how to use a PCB manufacturing contractor such as JLCPCB to have them build the risers in batches. Apparently a batch of 5 costs ~US$50.

I only have one machine and no plans of building a cluster so I think I'll just keep the cheap AliExpress riser. The extra storage would be cool but I don't need it. I also don't live in a popular country so group buying is not viable.

Thank you again for the input, it really helps to know the actual cost of those custom risers.

 

[Squoblat]

Has anyone managed to put an 8700G (not a GE) into an M75q Gen 5? I'm aware of the vendor locking issue on Lenovo gear with AMD (found that out the hard way with a threadripper). I have access to some spare gen 5s with the 8300GE in and want to do some tinkering.

 

[movax]

Did a quick thread search but the results didn't jump out at me -- for reasons (switching to a Pro XG 48 switch), I'd like to switch to a 10GbE copper NIC in my M90q Gen2. Currently, I have one of the Supermicro fiber cards in there w/ the excellent shroud fan adapter thing from WarlockSyno, but looking to go copper (probably something AQC113 based to stay cool).

Anyone using a copper card with a readily available 3D printed bracket / baffle?

 

[sw1]

Did a quick thread search but the results didn't jump out at me -- for reasons (switching to a Pro XG 48 switch), I'd like to switch to a 10GbE copper NIC in my M90q Gen2. Currently, I have one of the Supermicro fiber cards in there w/ the excellent shroud fan adapter thing from WarlockSyno, but looking to go copper (probably something AQC113 based to stay cool).

Anyone using a copper card with a readily available 3D printed bracket / baffle?

I’m just learning about all this so I’d like to ask: why not just use an SFP+ to RJ45 transceiver?

 

[movax]

I’m just learning about all this so I’d like to ask: why not just use an SFP+ to RJ45 transceiver?

Heat mostly and I don't think I have one handy -- plenty of SFP/1GbE ones in my closet but not sure I have any 10GbE ones. The cards/baffle are likely to be cheap enough that doing it 'right' isn't a big deal.

 

[sw1]

Is anyone here using a 10GbE NIC with more than 2 ports? Or maybe added an extra 1 port 2.5GbE NIC using the M.2 A/E Key Slot?

I'm planning for this situation: two WAN connections (10Gbps + 2.5Gbps for failover) and a PoE Switch with an 10Gb SFP+ port.

With a 2 port 10GbE NIC I can connect to the 10Gbps WAN and the PoE Switch, but since the onboard port of the M920q is only 1GbE, my failover WAN will be capped to that speed.

I've seen M.2 A/E Key to 2.5GbE Ethernet adapters but I'm not sure if it'll all fit (here's one, here's another one).

I wouldn't mind 3D printing shruds or even full cases to improve airflow. I just don't want to deal with more than one device.

As for the cases, I've seen:

• This top cover with a lot of holes (this appears to be the same but by the original author instead of a remix)
• This one that adds height to fit a full 140mm fan
• This one to build a full blown NAS (which coud probably work using a custom riser and a M.2 to SATA Card/Adapter like this one)

For the baffle/bracket I've seen this one that's not the most aesthetically pleasing but I wouldn't mind since it works and is better than a super tight fit. What I don't know is if it'd work with a SuperMicro AOC-STGN-I2S (or if it could be adapted)

Also, the M.2 A/E Key to 2.5GbE Ethernet adapters are based on either the Intel i226 or the Realtek RTL8125BG. Are any of these known to have compatibility issues with Proxmox/OPNsense?

 

[cntrdctn86]

Is anyone here using a 10GbE NIC with more than 2 ports? Or maybe added an extra 1 port 2.5GbE NIC using the M.2 A/E Key Slot?

I'm planning for this situation: two WAN connections (10Gbps + 2.5Gbps for failover) and a PoE Switch with an 10Gb SFP+ port.

With a 2 port 10GbE NIC I can connect to the 10Gbps WAN and the PoE Switch, but since the onboard port of the M920q is only 1GbE, my failover WAN will be capped to that speed.

I've seen M.2 A/E Key to 2.5GbE Ethernet adapters but I'm not sure if it'll all fit (here's one, here's another one).

I wouldn't mind 3D printing shruds or even full cases to improve airflow. I just don't want to deal with more than one device.

As for the cases, I've seen:

• This top cover with a lot of holes (this appears to be the same but by the original author instead of a remix)
• This one that adds height to fit a full 140mm fan
• This one to build a full blown NAS (which coud probably work using a custom riser and a M.2 to SATA Card/Adapter like this one)

For the baffle/bracket I've seen this one that's not the most aesthetically pleasing but I wouldn't mind since it works and is better than a super tight fit. What I don't know is if it'd work with a SuperMicro AOC-STGN-I2S (or if it could be adapted)

Also, the M.2 A/E Key to 2.5GbE Ethernet adapters are based on either the Intel i226 or the Realtek RTL8125BG. Are any of these known to have compatibility issues with Proxmox/OPNsense?

I'm currently putting together a little NAS using this case that utilizes a Lenovo mini, has 8 drive slots and places for 2x 120mm fans and 2x 40mm fans. I didn't figure out anything special for networking... just using a usb 3.0 to 2.5gb dongle.

https://makerworld.com/en/models/1424019-tinas-8x-hdd-1-ssd-enclosure-m710q-m910q-m920q#profileId-1479901